England Rugby Union Players 2009-2010

[Gary Is God]

Alright Moon! Good to see you back with lists

What do you reckon to the fact 4 Rugby League converts has gone straight into the England squad? Testament that League is getting better (which there is evidence to suggest) or the England team is in a sad state of affairs?

[Moon Utd]

Alright Moon! Good to see you back with lists

What do you reckon to the fact 4 Rugby League converts has gone straight into the England squad? Testament that League is getting better (which there is evidence to suggest) or the England team is in a sad state of affairs?

I think it's more about the nature of Rugby Union becoming an increasingly "contact sport". That might sound strange, because it always has been, but players are bigger, and there is much more emphasis on organised defences knocking the lights out of any runners breaking through the lines. Rugby League is all about the "six tackles" and having guys who can hit hard and conversely, run in small spaces with quick bursts of speed to break the gaps. The other increasing similarity between League and Union is the athleticism of forwards in Union now. Back in the 90s when Wigan were winning everything, it was really hard to distinguish between their forwards and backs because they all had the same physique. Case in point was Andy Farrell being a forward in League, but becoming a centre when he moved to Union. Now you look at the new breed of prop like Dan Cole of Leicester or Alex Corbisiero of London Irish and they're lean and strong - not at all like the beer-bellied front row of old! Flankers crop up on the wing. Fly halfs can't stand back from a challenge to protect their hair, they have to get stuck in. League players fit this new hard-hitting form of Union where the ball is pinged back and forward in an aerial battle, with tacklers running full steam down field to nail the ball catcher.

[Gary Is God]

I think it's more about the nature of Rugby Union becoming an increasingly "contact sport". That might sound strange, because it always has been, but players are bigger, and there is much more emphasis on organised defences knocking the lights out of any runners breaking through the lines. Rugby League is all about the "six tackles" and having guys who can hit hard and conversely, run in small spaces with quick bursts of speed to break the gaps. The other increasing similarity between League and Union is the athleticism of forwards in Union now. Back in the 90s when Wigan were winning everything, it was really hard to distinguish between their forwards and backs because they all had the same physique. Case in point was Andy Farrell being a forward in League, but becoming a centre when he moved to Union. Now you look at the new breed of prop like Dan Cole of Leicester or Alex Corbisiero of London Irish and they're lean and strong - not at all like the beer-bellied front row of old! Flankers crop up on the wing. Fly halfs can't stand back from a challenge to protect their hair, they have to get stuck in. League players fit this new hard-hitting form of Union where the ball is pinged back and forward in an aerial battle, with tacklers running full steam down field to nail the ball catcher.

Excellent post mate, very true. I think the fact Rugby League converts are such a different style to players brought up only playing Union that it makes the defenders have to handle a bit of an unknown quantity, as they will only be used to defending against other Union players, and this can have big impacts, eg. Macheda.

What do you reckon to Courtney Laws? They're making him out to be the Messiah of Union at the minute

[Moon Utd]

I've not seen Courtney Lawes play yet so I don't know. But I'm always intrigued when players seem to emerge in a blaze of expectation. I actually think you could form a decent pack of eight forwards from any combo within the Top 50 candidates. The real key to England's success will be their backline. I am a huge fan of Delon Armitage at fullback, and just because they involve their centres more, I'd pick Toby Flood or Danny Cipriani at 10 ahead of Jonny Wilkinson. One of our most natural ball handlers is Mathew Tait but he always seems to be the "utility sub" rather than a proper starter. Maybe Hape will be a good presence at centre? In the future I will expect to see the Quins star, Jordan Turner-Hall, get a shot. He is a great runner though the middle. Wing is quite competitive. Monye, Banahan, and Cueto are all fine, but conceivably the Saxon pair of Strettle and Sackey could just as easily start for England. I'll also be interested to see if Chris Ashton can score at international level the way he does for his club, Northampton. And what happened to the "second coming of Jonah Lomu", Lesley Vainikolo?? He was supposed to be the answer to a battering ram on one wing, but so far hasn't done the biz.

[Moon Utd]

The confirmed starting line-up is as follows:

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - Mathew Tait recalled for England Six Nations opener

1 Loose head prop: TIM PAYNE (Wasps)
2 Hooker: DYLAN HARTLEY (Northampton) / 16 Steve Thompson (Brive, France)
3 Tight head prop: DAVE WILSON (Bath) / 17 Dan Cole (Leicester)
4 Second row: SIMON SHAW (Wasps) / 18 Louis Deacon (Leicester)
5 Second row: STEVE BORTHWICK (c) (Saracens)
6 Blind side flanker: JAMES HASKELL (Stade Francais, France)
7 Open side flanker: LEWIS MOODY (Leicester) / 19 Steffon Armitage (London Irish)
8 No. 8: NICK EASTER (Harlequins)
9 Scrum-half: DANNY CARE (Harlequins) / 20 Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
10 Fly-half: JONNY WILKINSON (Toulon, France) / 21 Toby Flood (Leicester)
11 Left wing: UGO MONYE (Harlequins)
12 Inside centre: RIKI FLUTEY (Brive, France)
13 Outside centre: MATHEW TAIT (Sale)
14 Right wing: MARK CUETO (Sale) / 22 Ben Foden (Northampton)
15 Fullback: DELON ARMITAGE(London Irish)

[Moon Utd]

The confirmed starting line-up is as follows:

The line-up changed slightly before kick-off as centre Riki Flutey was injured a day or two before the match. A really good day out at Twickenham yesterday, and great to see England win it. Still think the starting XV isn't quite right, but roll on the next game!

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - England 30-17 Wales

1 Loose head prop: TIM PAYNE (Wasps)
2 Hooker: DYLAN HARTLEY (Northampton) / 16 Steve Thompson (Brive, France)
3 Tight head prop: DAVE WILSON (Bath) / 17 Dan Cole (Leicester)
4 Second row: SIMON SHAW (Wasps) / 18 Louis Deacon (Leicester)
5 Second row: STEVE BORTHWICK (c) (Saracens)
6 Blind side flanker: JAMES HASKELL (Stade Francais, France)
7 Open side flanker: LEWIS MOODY (Leicester) / 19 Steffon Armitage (London Irish)
8 No. 8: NICK EASTER (Harlequins)
9 Scrum-half: DANNY CARE (Harlequins) / 20 Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
10 Fly-half: JONNY WILKINSON (Toulon, France)
11 Left wing: UGO MONYE (Harlequins)
12 Inside centre: TOBY FLOOD (Leicester) / 21 Dan Hipkiss (Leicester)
13 Outside centre: MATHEW TAIT (Sale)
14 Right wing: MARK CUETO (Sale) / 22 Ben Foden (Northampton)
15 Fullback: DELON ARMITAGE(London Irish)

[Jazz 16]

What did you make of the game Moon? Wales were shit tbf but it was a decent English performance. Some good tries as well.

[Moon Utd]

What did you make of the game Moon? Wales were shit tbf but it was a decent English performance. Some good tries as well.

I enjoyed the game, but there were plenty of moments when I nearly dumped my beer over somebody as I raised my hands in irritation at silly mistakes or moments when the wrong ball carrier was at first receiver. If Danny Care, the scrum half, played with the same fire for 80 minutes, the ball would go flying along our back line. But too often a forward would be positioned between the ruck and Jonny Wilkinson, so the ball ended up going back into another time-swallowing melee. I love to see dynamic running rugby, and when the team did spring in to life through Tait or Armitage or Flood linking play, I thought "this England team can win the lot". But there are too many moments when it doesn't quite click. I also think there need to be a few personnel changes. The pack needs an alternative front row and I'd put Wilkinson on the bench, only to give Flood the chance to play at 10, and get Flutey into the line-up when he's back from injury. Mark Cueto had a very good game on the wing, and Borthwick did really well in the line-outs. Good to get the win, although it's the sense of a team that can get better if it just uses its collective brain a bit better.

[Moon Utd]

The confirmed starting line-up is as follows:

Tomorrow (Sunday) England run out against Italy. Riki Flutey is fit again so comes back into the centre in place of Toby Flood, while the excellent young prop, Dan Cole, takes over the number three (tight head) shirt. If he's successful he really could play in that position for a very long time.

What's interesting is that Martin Johnson has decided that Italy are a physical team, so he has TWO reserve props on the bench. Dave Wilson and Matt Mullan. That's unusual, so it means there are only two backs on the bench. Paul Hodgson is a scrum-half, and Toby Flood plays fly-half and centre for Leicester. Mathew Tait (in the starting line-up) can play centre, wing and full-back, while Mark Cueto has also played wing and full-back. With so many players capable of multiple positions, England's tactics may be to continually change their positions to confuse the Italian defence! I want to see lots of tries tomorrow.

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - England set for Six Nations battle against Italy pack

1 Loose head prop: TIM PAYNE (Wasps) / 18 Matt Mullan (Worcester)
2 Hooker: DYLAN HARTLEY (Northampton) / 16 Steve Thompson (Brive, France)
3 Tight head prop: DAN COLE (Leicester) / 17 Dave Wilson (Bath)
4 Second row: SIMON SHAW (Wasps) / 19 Louis Deacon (Leicester)
5 Second row: STEVE BORTHWICK (c) (Saracens)
6 Blind side flanker: JAMES HASKELL (Stade Francais, France)
7 Open side flanker: LEWIS MOODY (Leicester) / 20 Steffon Armitage (London Irish)
8 No. 8: NICK EASTER (Harlequins)
9 Scrum-half: DANNY CARE (Harlequins) / 21 Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
10 Fly-half: JONNY WILKINSON (Toulon, France)
11 Left wing: UGO MONYE (Harlequins)
12 Inside centre: RIKI FLUTEY (Brive, France) / 22 Toby Flood (Leicester)
13 Outside centre: MATHEW TAIT (Sale)
14 Right wing: MARK CUETO (Sale)
15 Fullback: DELON ARMITAGE(London Irish)

[Moon Utd]

It wasn't a classic win the other week against Italy, but onwards and upwards! Ireland will be tough opposition, even with Twickenham's homefield advantage!

The starting XV is the same, but there are changes on the bench. Hooker Lee Mears replaces Steve Thompson; Joe Worsley is the backrow sub in place of Steffon Armitage; and Northampton utility back, Ben Foden, comes back into the squad with prop Matt Mullan making way.

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - England keep unchanged team for Ireland contest

The confirmed starting line-up is as follows:

1 Loose head prop: TIM PAYNE (Wasps)
2 Hooker: DYLAN HARTLEY (Northampton) / 16Lee Mears (Bath)
3 Tight head prop: DAN COLE (Leicester) / 17 Dave Wilson (Bath)
4 Second row: SIMON SHAW (Wasps) / 18 Louis Deacon (Leicester)
5 Second row: STEVE BORTHWICK (c) (Saracens)
6 Blind side flanker: JAMES HASKELL (Stade Francais, France)
7 Open side flanker: LEWIS MOODY (Leicester) / 19 Joe Worsley (Wasps)
8 No. 8: NICK EASTER (Harlequins)
9 Scrum-half: DANNY CARE (Harlequins) / 20 Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
10 Fly-half: JONNY WILKINSON (Toulon, France)
11 Left wing: UGO MONYE (Harlequins)
12 Inside centre: RIKI FLUTEY (Brive, France) / 21 Toby Flood (Leicester)
13 Outside centre: MATHEW TAIT (Sale)
14 Right wing: MARK CUETO (Sale) / 22Ben Foden (Northampton)
15 Fullback: DELON ARMITAGE(London Irish)

[Moon Utd]

I've just spent the best part of the afternoon in the pub, firstly laughing at Man City beating Chelsea, and then nearly crushing my pint glass because my hand was squeezing it too tightly! England’s rugby team are a damn frustrating team to watch, I tell you. They should have beaten Ireland but ended up beating themselves. Right now I'm cursing so many of the players and hoping that Martin Johnson realises that we now have nothing to play for in this tournament and should just pick a team he thinks he can build with for the future. The reality is that beating Scotland and then going to Paris in the slim hopes of a victory are not enough to win this year’s Six Nations.

So in order of their shirt numbers, it's goodbye to loose head prop, current incumbent of the #1 jersey, Tim Payne of Wasps. He's clearly not international calibre and would not be playing were it not for injuries to Andrew Sheridan. Dan Cole at tight head is a keeper, plus he scored (was it really a try??) today against Ireland. He's one of the finest scrummagers around in my opinion. We don't need Matt Stevens back when his drug ban ends. Also don't bring back Phil Vickery or Julian White. It's time to move on and give Matt Mullan and Alex Corbisiero a chance to play at #1.

As for hooker, Dylan Hartley was supposed to be the guy to hold the #2 shirt for many years to come. At the moment his line-out throws let England down, and when he runs with the ball into the tackle he doesn't keep his feet moving but stops and lets himself be pushed backwards. Lee Mears is far more dynamic with the ball, so should hold his place after coming on as a sub today. Steve Thompson can only cling to the memories of yesteryear, and Leicester's George Chuter thinks he's a fly-half trapped in skinny hooker's body. There are other up-and-coming hookers in the Guinness Premiership, like Rob Webber of Wasps, but for now Mears should play.

Martin Johnson appointed Steve Borthwick as a second row / captain in his own image, and to a point I think it's a good choice. But Borthwick isn't as good a player as he was when he wasn't in the England team a few years ago! In other words, his best days didn't coincide with being selected. Now's he's in the line-up, there are other second rows worthy of selection. Courtney Lawes of Northampton is talked about as the (literally) "next big thing". Simon Shaw went off injured today and I will be surprised if he is selected again. A great lumbering servant whose time is now up. Louis Deacon replaced him, but I think I'll always suspect that he's a fantastic club player and nothing more. A favourite of mine is Nick Kennedy of London Irish, but he's been injured for a while. Richard Blaze and Geoff Parling of Leicester, plus Dave Attwood of Gloucester, will feature in the not-too-distant future.

As far as I'm concerned, Lewis Moody should play flanker for England until they carry him off the field and he can't come back on. But other back-row forwards are either inconsistent or too frequently injured. James Haskell and Nick Easter look good on paper as they're big bruiser types, but they went missing against Ireland today as far as I could tell. England miss Tom Rees and Tom Croft, plus Dan Ward-Smith has had injury preventing him from having the chance to stake a claim for the #8 shirt. Right now it should probably go to Jordan Crane. Joe Worsley may be able to tackle everything in sight, but I thought the point of dynamic flankers was that they could also handle the ball and also be attacking weapons?

The newspapers will undoubtedly focus on the half-back pairing of Danny Care and Jonny Wilkinson. Right now neither of them can honestly say they have justified their selections. Paul Hodgson is probably the best bet at scrum-half, with Ben Youngs a talent for the future. Toby Flood should have the #10 shirt now, although the door should be open for Danny Cipriani in the future. For England to have a shot at the World Cup in 2011 they need to have fifteen players who can run with the ball in hand, and have the vision and creativity to find their teammates. It's not enough to have one or two skill players surrounded by tackle-hungry gym-monkeys who look confused when the ball lands in their big fat hands.

I keep waiting for Riki Flutey to show what he can do, and honestly today I forgot he had an England shirt on. Mathew Tait is one of my favourite players, and there are tons of other exciting runners such as Dan Hipkiss, Shane Geraghty, Jordan Turner-Hall, Billy Twelvetrees, and although I've not seen him play, Shontayne Hape. I realise that in modern rugby you do need a bit of muscle in the midfield, but while Jamie Noon is acceptable, please let's not dust Mike Tindall off for another crack in the centre!

The only area where me might be spoiled for options is in the back three. Sadly they don't get enough of the ball, and when they do (as happened against Italy), they weren't well-supported to run with it, and so had to resort to kicking it away. I think Delon Armitage, Mark Cueto and Ugo Monye all have fantastic attributes. Matt Banahan and Chris Ashton deserve acknowledgement, and even Ben Foden got some playing time towards the end of the Ireland game today. Dave Strettle and Paul Sackey are instinctive try-scorers currently in the Saxons squad. Lesley Vainikolo never worked out, but perhaps he'll have a return to form for Gloucester at some point? His club teammate, Olly Morgan, is a very good fullback, and Nick Abendanon of Bath is always well regarded.

In short, we do have some good strength in depth, so changes need to be made. If it's not the players that are the problem, then it's the philosophy being implemented by the current England management team. Martin Johnson seems to want to promote young talent when he finds it, but he seems to want to install it into a system which he believes worked to win England the World Cup back in 2003. Rugby Union has changed dramatically since then, and the style of game being played by the southern hemisphere teams, not to mention France (and occasionally even Ireland and Wales) shows England are lumbering and slow by comparison. Yes they have free-flowing moments where the natural instincts of the players on the pitch start to take over. But with five minutes to go today, and England needing a try to win, the forwards kept shuffling from ruck to ruck and I think there was a complete lack of imagination as to how they could cross the try line. Ireland stopped them with ease, and even when the clock ticked to red, Tim Payne lost the ball and Ireland cleared to touch. Game over. It's Scotland next, and surely some new faces can come in to show the nation that we can play with the freedom and excitement at national level that many of our club sides play with. If only Martin Johnson gives them the chance to do it.

[dualtamac]

Moon, it's simple, Ireland had 3 real chances and they scored 3 tries....that is the difference between the sides. That and Jamie Heaslip

[Moon Utd]

Martin Johnson has announced his line-up to face Scotland this weekend, with a few changes being made to both the starting XV and the bench. Joe Worsley comes in for fellow flanker Lewis Moody, and Louis Deacon replaces the injured Simon Shaw in the second row.

Steve Thompson replaces Lee Mears as sub hooker; Courtney Lawes takes Deacon's place on the bench; Ben Youngs ousts Paul Hodgson as the back-up to scrum-half Danny Care, after Youngs' Leicester defeated Hodgson's London Irish last Saturday; Moody is a sub in place of Worsley; Flood and Foden remain utility backs to cover positions 10-15.

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - Worsley replaces Moody in England side to play Scotland

The confirmed starting line-up is as follows:

1 Loose head prop: TIM PAYNE (Wasps)
2 Hooker: DYLAN HARTLEY (Northampton) / 16 Steve Thompson (Brive)
3 Tight head prop: DAN COLE (Leicester) / 17 Dave Wilson (Bath)
4 Second row: LOUIS DEACON (Leicester) / 18 Courtney Lawes (Northampton)
5 Second row: STEVE BORTHWICK (c) (Saracens)
6 Blind side flanker: JAMES HASKELL (Stade Francais, France)
7 Open side flanker: JOE WORSLEY (Wasps) / 19 Lewis Moody (Leicester)
8 No. 8: NICK EASTER (Harlequins)
9 Scrum-half: DANNY CARE (Harlequins) / 20 Ben Youngs (Leicester)
10 Fly-half: JONNY WILKINSON (Toulon, France)
11 Left wing: UGO MONYE (Harlequins)
12 Inside centre: RIKI FLUTEY (Brive, France) / 21 Toby Flood (Leicester)
13 Outside centre: MATHEW TAIT (Sale)
14 Right wing: MARK CUETO (Sale)
15 Fullback: DELON ARMITAGE(London Irish) / 22 Ben Foden (Northampton)

[Moon Utd]

In post #31 I ranted about how Martin Johnson needed to change his personnel after a less-than-impressive performance. If England are only good enough to draw with Scotland, then what chance do we have in Paris against France next weekend??

Against the French, I would expect a few changes, although Johnson is a tad conservative and may fall back on the old boys he thinks have the big game experience. Since the title is gone, why not put in the flair players who will be able to chase around when the French make it an open running game?

1 Payne
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Borthwick
6 Worsley
7 Moody
8 Crane
9 Care
10 Flood
11 Banahan
12 Flutey
13 Tait
14 Cueto
15 Foden

16 Thompson
17 Wilson
18 Deacon
19 S. Armitage
20 Youngs
21 Geraghty
22 Hape

[Moon Utd]

Changes in the England line-up for the last game of the Six Nations against France this Saturday.

The front row remains the same, Moody is back in for Haskell, Toby Flood switches with Jonny Wilkinson, Chris Ashton gets his first cap on the wing in place of the injured Ugo Monye, Mike Tindall replaces Mathew Tait, and fullback Delon Armitage is dropped in favour of Ben Foden. Clearly the presence of Foden and Ashton suggests Martin Johnson wants to capture some of the flavour of Northampton's brand of attacking rugby. I'd like to see Ben Youngs come on in the second half so he can link up with his Leicester half-back colleague, Toby Flood.

Should be interesting, and all bets are on France giving England a thrashing to be honest.

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - England drop Jonny Wilkinson for Toby Flood

The confirmed starting line-up is as follows:

1 Loose head prop: TIM PAYNE (Wasps)
2 Hooker: DYLAN HARTLEY (Northampton) / 16 Steve Thompson (Brive)
3 Tight head prop: DAN COLE (Leicester) / 17 Dave Wilson (Bath)
4 Second row: SIMON SHAW (Wasps)
5 Second row: LOUIS DEACON (Leicester) / 18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais, France)
6 Blind side flanker: JOE WORSLEY (Wasps)
7 Open side flanker: LEWIS MOODY (c) (Leicester) / 19 James Haskell (Stade Francais, France)
8 No. 8: NICK EASTER (Harlequins)
9 Scrum-half: DANNY CARE (Harlequins) / 20 Ben Youngs (Leicester)
10 Fly-half: TOBY FLOOD (Leicester) / 21Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon, France)
11 Left wing: CHRIS ASHTON (Northampton)
12 Inside centre: RIKI FLUTEY (Brive, France)
13 Outside centre: MIKE TINDALL (Gloucester)
14 Right wing: MARK CUETO (Sale)
15 Fullback: BEN FODEN (Northampton) / 22 Mathew Tait (Sale)

[Moon Utd]

So as expected, Steve Borthwick isn't fit, so Louis Deacon replaces him in the second row, with Tom Palmer coming on to the subs' bench.

Leicester flanker, Lewis Moody, becomes England captain for the day.

BBC Sport - Rugby Union - Moody to captain England as Deacon replaces Borthwick

It will be interesting to see how Riki Flutey (and subs Jonny Wilkinson, Tom Palmer, and James Haskell) do in this evening's match against France. They all now play for French club sides, so will they have a greater insight into how to beat France? I'm quite fearful of England being thrashed to be honest!

[haggler]

Watch ashton fly ---the boy is a points scoring machine .

That is the side johnson should have started campaign with .

Should be a close game now

[Moon Utd]

At least England put up a good showing against France, who looked like they were coasting. Toby Flood was an asset in unleashing Ben Foden and Chris Ashton in the back line, but to be fair, Danny Care, Mark Cueto, Mike Tindall and Riki Flutey all had good spells in the match too.

As for the forwards, I'd say Tim Payne has played his last game for England at prop. Dan Cole looked vulnerable yesterday, but will play many times for England. Not sure that Hartley v Thompson is the end to the hooker debate, and second row is due for an overhaul too. Tom Palmer came off the bench and looked pretty awesome. Lewis Moody seemed to get hit a lot during the match, and the weather stopped his "Mad Dog" routine where he chases down every high ball at 100mph. I think Easter and Worsley could do with being upgraded, although they both put their body on the line in and around the contact areas all game long.

Before England's summer tour, I think Martin Johnson needs to keep bringing in the high tempo exciting players, and gradually cull some of the older breed that he's clearly comfortable with, and loyal too. It's 18 months until the World Cup, and the squad has to begin to take shape so that the supposed young talents like Courtney Lawes are firmly established in the line-up before that tournament, and not just finding their feet when it begins.

[TheManc]

Are Warrington Wolves in Rugby Union?

[Moon Utd]

Are Warrington Wolves in Rugby Union?

Warrington Wolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're a rugby league team. Why do you ask?