have they put us in danger ?

[Drew9]

for those that are going to moscow next week, are we now in a very difficault position in terms of safety because of the terrible scenes of the rangers invasion of manchester last week? will us united fans get punished for rangers stupidity ? what do you think guys ? i for one am pretty nervous now ...:rolleyes:

[spellbound]

Do you fear the Moscow hooligans looking forward to pay back for what Rangers fans did to Zenit fans? From what Ive heard there's no risk that'll happen. They hate each other in Russia too.:D If there'll be another riot they just do it to still their blood thirst.

[manutd004]

I can't see the Russians taking revenge against United supporters for something that the Rangers supporters done.

I think they'll just treat you as they want to. The Rangers incident is irrelevant imo.

[Maze187]

I can't say I'm worried personally, I know as long as I don't get drunk and go looking for trouble, I should make it home in one piece. ;)

[Red Devil]

The russians are a very racist people in the main. Having been supressed under communism for so long they are extremely volatile and prone to impatience.

[Hadi]

The russians are a very racist people in the main.

By saying that, you are being very racist!!

How on earth can you judge several millions based on their nationality?

I am really shocked!

[marty davidson]

dont care what happens of the field what happens on the field is more important

[Maze187]

dont care what happens of the field what happens on the field is more important

Well that's hardly true if a load of people get injuried or worse killed, that seems a rather laughable comment in my opinion.

[BuchanIsCooler]

By saying that, you are being very racist!!

How on earth can you judge several millions based on their nationality?

I am really shocked!


I don't think he's being racist, he's just stating a fact. He said in the main, therefore he doesn't mean everyone. Lot's of people in the old eastern block countries are racist. It's an unfortunate fact.

[RichardsReds]

The russians are a very racist people in the main. Having been supressed under communism for so long they are extremely volatile and prone to impatience.

another shocker from the Red Devil!

[greenhoff]

Moscow is (deleted) horrible unless you are in an organised group you wouldnt want to be walking off on your own,i was there last year and about them being rascist ,they are.

1st warning for swearing in a post - Red Devil

[Red Devil]

for racism - read nationalistic - read racially ingrown - no big deal. The people who make worse of things than they are are usually more racial by virtue of the fact they are quick to complain about the slightest thing. I am not racist, and dont care what you think because its true, see Greenhoff reply.

[RichardsReds]

for racism - read nationalistic - read racially ingrown - no big deal. The people who make worse of things than they are are usually more racial by virtue of the fact they are quick to complain about the slightest thing. I am not racist, and dont care what you think because its true, see Greenhoff reply.

Care enough to comment though mate.

nah i'm just being pedantic and messing around with you!

[asaf cohen]

i think you'll be fine. just don't get to drunk and don't go looking for trouble. stay with the united fans.

[Red Devil]

Care enough to comment though mate.

nah i'm just being pedantic and messing around with you!No sweat Richie, I just get miffed when people question my right of an opinion.

[Drew9]

they may hate zenit, im talking more about the police, they are notoriously violent and dare i say bent, for example if you get arrested over there and have a nice watch or a wallet full of money they'll happily take it and move you on and forget about it, it's wrong that the final was ever agreed over there tbh, i really hope everything goes well but i stand by my statement that the rangers fans havent made it easier for us traveling united fans

[antdevil78]

By saying that, you are being very racist!!

How on earth can you judge several millions based on their nationality?

I am really shocked!

like he said IN THE MAIN. Dont mean every russian is a racist. Your reading too much into the statement and concluding that is racism.

Most Americans are fat. Is that racist???

Well that's hardly true if a load of people get injuried or worse killed, that seems a rather laughable comment in my opinion.

totally agree. would rather see us lose than hear about any united fan getting injured or killed.

its only a game after all!!! The scenes at Lille with the crushing of United fans and Roma disturbed me greatly

[greenhoff]

They couldn`t of picked a worse place for it in my view.The police will be heavy handed im sure also you will be ripped off at every opportunity.Really hope no Utd fan gets seriously injured there.

[GERSGAV]

http://blogs.notw.co.uk/newsoftheworld_scotland/2008/05/english-rent-a.html#more

yes was Rangers fault eh so there was none of yer own people involved in the rioting?
Before you go blaming just Rangers take a look at your own backyard your own people trashing their own city fantastic.
so maybe more english people with nothing to do with Rangers had more involvement than Rangers fans this news puts the minority of Rangers fans even lower than at first thought.

[reddwarf]

I just hope the distinction between United/Rangers, English/Scottish is made. If they view us as British hooligans there could be trouble.

There's bound to be the odd fight here and there - always is when copious amounts of alcohol is involved. There better not be any major trouble though because the Russian police (or should that be paramilitaries?) will have no qualms about handing out beatings first and asking questions later.

[carlyluvsunited]

Lot's of people in the old eastern block countries are racist. It's an unfortunate fact.

Lot's of us are racist !!

It's an unfortunate fact !!

What do you base that rubbish on !!

Tell me how many people from Eastern
Europe you know ?

Before joining the EU we never saw
anyone from other countries - we never
even thought about them ... that was
just another world ... a million miles
away from us !! A world we wanted
to get to but just couldn't.

Many of us have a problem with
Russia - after all they put us through
maybe it is warranted - maybe it isn't.
2 generations from now even this will
disappear.

We're not racist ... we had never heard
of The BNP or The National Front but I'm
sure you have !

[greenhoff]

The troubles in Yugoslavia during the 90`s,the right wing in the Ukraine also in Russia.The treatment of Gypsies in the Baltic States,there is a very strong racist feeling in the former easten block you cannot deny that..

[Red Devil]

Read my post again - racism can be interpreted as nationalism and the lefties do not like it. Carly: you hate Russia - thats racist! The reason is immaterial.

the Serbs are very racist, as are the Croats, Kosovans have many reasons to hate Serbs and Croats. Romanians hate Russians.

[SALFORD RED]

Anyway, trying to get back on topic..


Reds arrive in Moscow

19/ 5/2008


RUSSIANS wary of marauding British hooligans
have been reassured by the behaviour of the
first Manchester United fans to arrive in Moscow.

Thousands of Reds were met on Monday by banks
of photographers and film crews at Domodedovo airport,
where virtually all United fans will arrive ahead of
Wednesday's Champions League final.

Chelsea supporters are using the city's two other airports.

After the first supporters hit Red Square, Muscovites admitted they expected trouble after watching the violent scenes during last week's Uefa Cup final in Manchester between Russia's Zenit St Petersburg and Glasgow Rangers.

But so far they have been pleasantly surprised. Helen Orlovskaja, 41, an interpreter and tour guide, told the MEN: "To tell you the truth, they promised me that you are more aggressive. But I didn't see any aggression. They are very calm and very quiet and very well tempered people. They are very nice and very kind."

She added: "We have known about this football match for many months. Of course we know about Chelsea and (its Russian owner) Abramovich. He's very popular here in Russia. That's why it's great to have the final here. I think 40,000 people are coming in from Great Britain and I heard on the radio there are 100 aeroplanes arriving in Moscow for the match.

"Football is very popular here in Russia historically. It's one of our favourite sports."

It is your native sport. We know that your fans and supporters are very passionate and very devoted. They are the most devoted fans.

"We know British people are cultured people and of course football is a part of the life, of your tradition and of your history. We understand and we realise these things."

She admitted Russians would be rooting for Chelsea because of its Russian owner.

[BuchanIsCooler]

:D Lot's of us are racist !!

It's an unfortunate fact !!

What do you base that rubbish on !!

Tell me how many people from Eastern
Europe you know ?



I think Red Devil and Greenhoff have already adequately answered your question for me.

But, I will add on the footballing side of things, black players generally get much more racist abuse when they play in these countries. Even UEFA recognise this and have been taking steps to change attitudes. That doesn't mean everyone in these countries are racist. That would be a ridiculous statement. I just think most of the old eastern block countries lag behind a lot of others, in respect of the racism issue. Britain still has it's problems and so do many other countries.

How many people from Eastern Europe do I know? I know lots of Polish people. Doesn't everyone now!:D

[stretty]

I don't think he's being racist, he's just stating a fact. He said in the main, therefore he doesn't mean everyone. Lot's of people in the old eastern block countries are racist. It's an unfortunate fact.
its a fact all the old eastern block countries have racist supporters , they boo all black players with proper hatred .
i dont think rangers have done anybody any favours they have certainly made it worse for united and chelski , lets face it the russian police are not very tolerant at the best of times and now it wont take much for them to come in batons raised , i think i will take my crash helmet

[Red Devil]

Anyway, trying to get back on topic..


Reds arrive in Moscow

19/ 5/2008


RUSSIANS wary of marauding British hooligans
have been reassured by the behaviour of the
first Manchester United fans to arrive in Moscow.

Thousands of Reds were met on Monday by banks
of photographers and film crews at Domodedovo airport,
where virtually all United fans will arrive ahead of
Wednesday's Champions League final.

Chelsea supporters are using the city's two other airports.

After the first supporters hit Red Square, Muscovites admitted they expected trouble after watching the violent scenes during last week's Uefa Cup final in Manchester between Russia's Zenit St Petersburg and Glasgow Rangers.

But so far they have been pleasantly surprised. Helen Orlovskaja, 41, an interpreter and tour guide, told the MEN: "To tell you the truth, they promised me that you are more aggressive. But I didn't see any aggression. They are very calm and very quiet and very well tempered people. They are very nice and very kind."

She added: "We have known about this football match for many months. Of course we know about Chelsea and (its Russian owner) Abramovich. He's very popular here in Russia. That's why it's great to have the final here. I think 40,000 people are coming in from Great Britain and I heard on the radio there are 100 aeroplanes arriving in Moscow for the match.

"Football is very popular here in Russia historically. It's one of our favourite sports."

It is your native sport. We know that your fans and supporters are very passionate and very devoted. They are the most devoted fans.

"We know British people are cultured people and of course football is a part of the life, of your tradition and of your history. We understand and we realise these things."

She admitted Russians would be rooting for Chelsea because of its Russian owner.

Trying to get back on course - SR - excellent article; good to read. We will show the world how football fans behave (I hope ;) ) We are not barbarians!

[Forever_United]

well being mixed race and half jamaican myself am glad i'm not going to moscow :) neva thought i'd be glad to miss a CL final but anyway haha.

i half agree and disagree with the eastern countries are more racist, although its true that some people there have more of a tendency to abuse people that arent white. then again, if u travel thru the backstreets of Kingston, Jamaica ur bound to get abuse because your not black. my m8 is mixed race, a bit darker than me and even he suffered some abuse while holidaying there.

the fact is theres racism everywhere. in different shapes and sizes. theres overt and inovert racism. the closest i've been to racism is a man once said i'm greedy becos i couldnt decide if i wanted to be white or black so i chose both :D but thats laughable, my best mate uses the N word at me when i turn down a chance to go pub, but we laff it off cos we been m8s for 15 years and we kno its a laff.

i work with a LOT of polish peeps and there all sound lads. theres even one lad who's eyes light up on sight of a black girl becos his dream since he came ova from poland was to bed one :D

[Drew9]

lol, thats pretty funny ^^^ no reports of trouble yet in moscow how long doya rekon it will take though ... i know most are travelling out tomorrow but there are some people i know that have gone out this evening i hope it's alright for united :) atleast the teams there preparing :D

[dckyfoxes]

If revenge is what they are looking for, then riot there shall have... But it's 2 English team not involving any Russians team... Why get involved...

[SALFORD RED]

A fan's view of Moscow





By Julie Tunney



There is an old Russian proverb which says that a beaten man is worth two unbeaten ones, which basically means that experience is a great teacher.

I doubt whether the fans of the losing team in Wednesday's Champions League final between Manchester United and Chelsea will agree with that sentiment but I would like to think that in years to come their visit to the Luzhniki Stadium, and Moscow in general, will still stir up some good memories - of the city, if not the match.

I sampled the hospitality of Russia's capital when seeing Ipswich play Torpedo Moscow in a Uefa Cup tie in 2001 and I came away from the country, and the same sporting venue, with thoughts of the famous tourist haunts, interesting people, an ornate underground transport system, passport fines, lavatories built for contortionists, vodka allergies, tips on how to avoid being shot by the nation's mafia or the president's protection squad, oh and a 2-1 victory for the Suffolk side.

My party stayed at the Renaissance Moscow Hotel, which I gather is where former United States president Bill Clinton met then Russian leader Boris Yeltsin in 1999.



What can fans heading to Russia's capital expect?
While their discussions were presumably of world importance, ours touched on the surprise of arriving in a country supposedly shackled by depression and with a hangover from the old Soviet regime, if you follow stereotypes, and one of the first things we saw on leaving the airport was a signpost flagging up the way to a certain Swedish flat-pack furniture store.

However, there were plenty of areas untouched by so-called western culture.

Red Square, overlooked by the Kremlin, was obviously first on the tick list and it did not disappoint.

You can visit the brightly coloured, onion-domed St Basil's Cathedral and Lenin's mausoleum, where the embalmed body of the first head of the Soviet state is on permanent display, before heading to the GUM shopping arcade opposite.


While milling around one of the world's most famous parade grounds we succumbed to the inevitable and bought Russian hats - fake fur of course - but had to disappoint a number of local children who were hoping that these blue-and-white adorned strangers had also come supplied with football badges.

I learned from that mistake and have since indulged in memorabilia 'swapsies' with fans from various nations.


Our guide did tell us that some people driving "big, black Volgas" were perhaps not quite as friendly and if you collide with the Russian mafia as a pedestrian or another road user they may not be getting out of their vehicles to swap insurance details.

We did wonder if this was one of those stories used to spark the interest, or wind up, the 'gullible tourists', particularly as the speedy taxi driver taking us back to the hotel seemed unconcerned by their presence.

The metro system in Moscow is also worth a look, although I would suggest that you travel with someone who knows the Cyrillic alphabet because, if you don't, you will not know Smolenskaya from Siberia.


Many of the stations would outshine some palaces, with chandeliers, mosaics and sculptures almost standard fittings.

Sadly we were unable to fit in a visit to the Bolshoi Theatre for ballet or opera but a walk along the Moskva River, as opposed to on it, which you can also do when it freezes over, or a visit to the amusements in Gorky Park are other options.

Upon returning to the hotel though we discovered that not everyone's meanderings had been quite so fruitful. In fact, a number of supporters had been fined $50 by the police for failing to carry a passport on their person.

There was another shock at the stadium because the police and army, with riot shields and water cannons, seemed to be expecting an invasion, whereas the only moment of slight tension surrounded the non-admittance of a red-faced supporter. This was eventually resolved when our interpreter explained that his complexion was more likely down to an outdoor occupation than intoxication.

The language barrier did make for merriment when the cover-up provided by our hats and near-winter coats ensured that a few of us lucky females were initially searched ahead of the match by a gorgeous officer before he realised his mistake and reverted to male only candidates. We cracked a joke about it and neither of us knew what the other said but a smile means the same in any culture.

Once inside the ground we all headed to the 'facilities'. Female fans tend to be unfazed by lavatories inside grounds - or, remembering another excursion, total lack of them.

We have used the gents when the ladies has been locked, there has not been a female equivalent or when a queue was far too long and we wanted to get back to the action but the Luzhniki Stadium provided the female fans with an altogether different challenge.

At the Kremlin Amory Museum you can check if former Empress of Russia Catherine the Great did indeed once have a waist measurement to rival Victoria Beckham's


We knew it was part of an Olympic complex but had no idea that gymnastic ability was needed - the absence of locks on any of the doors and the fact you needed to be 7ft 2in tall to be able to balance on one leg while using the other to push against the door to keep it closed did create a problem.

However, we quickly came up with a different one-legged system whereby the next in line held the door closed with one foot, with the last in the queue maybe just praying that no-one came in.


What happened on the field is well documented but afterwards we were kept in a holding area outside the stadium as the 7,000 crowd dispersed - the capacity will be 69,500 on Wednesday - and the evening ended with fans having their photos taken with the police, by then leaning on their unused riot shields, and the offering of the odd cheese sandwich, which I think the officers became bored of after a while.

Our trip also included an excursion to the Kremlin Amory Museum, where you can see some of the famous Faberge eggs, check if former Empress of Russia Catherine the Great did indeed once have a waist measurement to rival Victoria Beckham's and scrutinise various weapons, jewellery, icons etc.


Russian dolls are traditional favourites for souvenir hunters

Our guide and interpreter again gave us a warning, this time that the then president Vladimir Putin was scheduled to leave the Kremlin during our visit and if we were in the grounds as he was driven by we should resist making any sharp movements, even if it was only to raise a camera, because his security team was told to shoot first if they perceived a threat and think about the consequences later.

Feeling this could again be another yarn for the benefit of the aforementioned gullible tourist but not being quite brave enough to risk proving our guide wrong, I left the camera in my pocket - as the chap behind me remained completely unscathed as he snapped away when the car swept.

On our way back to the airport we were taken to a souvenir shop, where, we were told, we would be offered vodka and would be deemed rude if we refused it.

Keen to uphold the honour of England, and Suffolk in particular, I manfully downed a glass, and that of a fellow fan who was allergic to it (and beer, Ipswich fans often buck the trend).

You will not find that particular brand of vodka in your local supermarket, which is probably just as well as I did wonder if it was the same substance used to fuel our flight home.

So, armed with a set of Russian dolls containing several small versions of the nation's leaders - working back from the one whose guards had decided we posed no threat - I left Moscow, while the capital certainly left an impression on me.

I would definitely go back, with or without the football.


.

[SALFORD RED]

But perhaps the biggest danger to those who are travelling is Russia's no-nonsense approach to alcohol. Public displays of drunkenness are frowned upon and English fans have been warned that they face being stripped and thrown into spartan 'sobering houses' if they get out of control.
Moscow's 'drink police' are known to trawl the city looking for the drunk, abusive or incapable. When they have been arrested, they are handcuffed and thrown in mobile cells.

When these are full, sobering houses are used and an enforced drying-out stint follows before offenders are released. The houses are bleak, unpleasant places where some offenders can even be stripped and chained to their beds.

Moscow's public safety department chief, Major Igor Konovalov, said: "If our laws are violated, we'll take the measures that are allowed by our law with no exceptions. If the fans are drunk, don't you worry, we'll make them sober. They must know they should not come to the game drunk, or indeed to the city."

Police from Manchester and London have already arrived in Moscow and will work together with local officers to identify and monitor any trouble-makers.

As for the Russian police, they will have their crack OMON riot squad on duty in case trouble does flare. Equipped with tear gas, water cannon and anti-riot assault vehicles, 5,000 of Russia's notorious police are ready to deployed.

Battle-hardened in the war in Chechnya, Russian legend has it that the officers exercise on nails and broken glass and are selected to join the elite force only after enduring five no-holds-barred fist fights with fellow officers. The OMON motto is: "We know no mercy and never ask for it."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=567349&in_page_id=1779


:eek:

[burnzy1987]

the russians will be very heavy handed if it kicks off (which would have been much more likely if we'd got the scousers)....BUT that post about the no nonsense approach to alcohol is shocking!!!....looks like no1 will be D&D, and sleeping in the streets then???

[Ando2008]

http://blogs.notw.co.uk/newsoftheworld_scotland/2008/05/english-rent-a.html#more

yes was Rangers fault eh so there was none of yer own people involved in the rioting?
Before you go blaming just Rangers take a look at your own backyard your own people trashing their own city fantastic.
so maybe more english people with nothing to do with Rangers had more involvement than Rangers fans this news puts the minority of Rangers fans even lower than at first thought.


Thats tripe, if you can't take the fact Rangers fans did this then just ignore it don't try and blame it on United fans you tube

[Keano4taoiseach]

If innocent fans are seriously injured in Russia then there is only one person and organisation to blame.....

Platini and UEFA. It was a disgraceful and frankly mind boggling (well money talks) decision to host an all english final in Russia.

[Red Devil]

The decision was taken last season , and who was to know who would be in the final? It matters not who the teams are we have to get on with it. The only mistake was holding it in Moscow in the first place.

[Keano4taoiseach]

The decision was taken last season , and who was to know who would be in the final? It matters not who the teams are we have to get on with it. The only mistake was holding it in Moscow in the first place.
Exactly, and if there is serious harm done to innocent, and I stress innocent match goers by the Russian paramilitary, sorry police :rolleyes: then those muppets at UEFA deserve to lose their jobs.

Ludicrous decision.

p.s It was always likely that there would be at least one english team in the final.