Munich Fact Files

[Red Devil]

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/2673/clockzv7.gif

MUNICH 1958 (http://www.mikekemble.com/manutd/munich1.html)

A must read for anyone who wants the facts about the Munich Air Disaster. The son of the co pilot has been in and verified the contents since I published it all.

edit: August 06, moved location of files, new link above.

[MUFC]

Hey, thanks for that link. That is an enormous collection of information that you've put together. Very much tragic all the same, but disgusted to know about the cover ups.

[Schmeichel#1]

Agreed, thanks for the link, i wanted to see a Busby Babes section on the site.

I also wanted to know more about the Munich Air Disaster.

[ABBOUDY]

go for it mates we must unveil everything

[J.Law]

MUNICH 1958 (http://www.mikekemble.com/manutd/munich1.html)

A must read for anyone who wants the facts about the Munich Air Disaster. The son of the co pilot has been in and verified the contents since I published it all.

edit: August 06, moved location of files, new link above.
10X MAN GOOD WORK. ITS PERFECT

[J.Law]

Agreed, thanks for the link, i wanted to see a Busby Babes section on the site.

I also wanted to know more about the Munich Air Disaster.
SIR MATT BUSBY STATUE . Unveiled in 1996,the sir matt busby statue looks out over the Old Trafford forecourt. it stands as a tribute to the man whose sheer determination,following the tragedy of the munich disaster, set United back on to the road to GLORY

[redmaster]

R.I.P
http://www.munich58.co.uk/

[Red Devil]

I truly and honestly believe we would have won the EC that same year. Titles etc would have flowed our way, much like in the 90s.

RIP Gentlemen.

[Jazz 16]

I found this deeply fascinating and terribly sad. Good work Red Devil

[carlyluvsunited]

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/2673/clockzv7.gif

MUNICH 1958 (http://www.mikekemble.com/manutd/munich1.html)

A must read for anyone who wants the facts about the Munich Air Disaster. The son of the co pilot has been in and verified the contents since I published it all.

edit: August 06, moved location of files, new link above.

I read through this and it is really cool....

Very graphic too - with the commentary from the pilots and the tower in Munich - kinda makes ya feel really sad as you read it....:(

[SeanUnited]

Thanks for the link and effort you put in to tell people.

[david fox]

Shortly after the disaster, legendary Hungarian strikerr Ferenc Puskas offered to play for the reds in honour to rebuild the team. However Puskas could not speak English so the move never materialised, how things have changed.

[PrinceZane]

This will be my 3rd season as a Man U fan. I've done a lot of number crunching on stats in the past, as well as videos of our glorious past. Somehow, I managed through 2 years to never have heard the full details of this event.

A rainbow of emotions are going through me right now after reading that report. Even as a new member to the family, reading this seemed to hit close to me, even if now almost 50 years later, as if I were personally effected by the incident.

[Lawbreaker1944]

Shortly after the disaster, legendary Hungarian strikerr Ferenc Puskas offered to play for the reds in honour to rebuild the team. However Puskas could not speak English so the move never materialised, how things have changed.
I didn't know that...what a remarkable act of humanity.

[SALFORD RED]

The Flowers of Manchester

One cold and bitter Thursday in Munich, Germany,
Eight great football stalwarts conceded victory,
Eight men who will never play again who met destruction there,
The flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester

Matt Busby's boys were flying, returning from Belgrade,
This great United family, all masters of their trade,
The Pilot of the aircraft, the skipper Captain Thain,
Three times they tried to take off and twice turned back again.

The third time down the runaway disaster followed close,
There was a slush upon that runaway and the aircraft never rose,
It ploughed into the marshy ground, it broke, it overturned.
And eight of the team were killed as the blazing wreckage burned.

Roger Byrne and Tommy Taylor who were capped for England's side.
And Ireland's Billy Whelan and England's Geoff Bent died,
Mark Jones and Eddie Colman, and David Pegg also,
They all lost their lives as it ploughed on through the snow.

Big Duncan he went to, with an injury to his frame,
And Ireland's brave Jack Blanchflower will never play again,
The great Sir Matt Busby lay there, the father of his team
Three long months passed by before he walked again.

The trainer, coach and secretary, and a member of the crew,
Also eight sporting journalists who with United flew,
and one of them Big Swifty, who we'll ne'er forget,
the finest English 'keeper that ever graced the net.

Oh, England's finest football team its record truly great,
its proud successes mocked by a cruel turn of fate.
Eight men will never play again, who met destruction there,
the flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester

[therichone]

have you got anymore

[SALFORD RED]

have you got anymore
There's lots mate, just google " busby babes poems" or " flowers of Manchester poems" you'll find them easy enough.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/tomclare/FLAG.jpg

[Skele]

This monday,in Red Star museum it's been made a short video designed for MUTV for anent to 50 years of Munich tragedy.

Vladica Popovic and Dragan Sekularac,who' v been than Red Star players,were talking about 2 historical matches between Manchester United and Red Star.United won first match in England 2:1 even after Lazar Tasic's first goal for Red Star.

''The fog was so heavy in Manchester and we practically didn't saw our first goal.Even Tasic the goalscorer didn't saw it properlly.We have lost this game,but we were playing very good and we were looking foward for second match.''

Second match has been played january 5th in Belgrade in front of 50 000 fans.In hard and interesting match resault was 3:3 and United won in 2 matches.

''After the game we had a dinner in Majestic hotel,and after that we move on Skadarljia.We didn't understand eachother but we have had a good time.We were singing and laughing just like we know eachother for all life.This was great moments for me with great guys wich i'll never forget" says Vladica Popovoc.

Other day,in early morning,United players were going home and few hours later the whole world was listening the sad news about Munich tragedy.

"We have heard that the plane with United's players was crashed near Munich and almost everybodie is dead.We were in shock and we couldn't belive that those lads who has been last night with us are all dead.''

A few years ago,Vladica Popovic has been at OT to give a honor to dead United players.

"We have put a flowers on the pitch of OT wich was full of UTD fans who were so quiet.It was a minut of silence.I remember a big applause of OT whan they have heard that we are from Red Star.I'll remember this for the rest of my life"

Vladica Popovic has a chance to try his abbility against friendly club as a manager.

"It was 1991 whan we have lost 1:0 at OT in Europen Supercup.My impression is that we have been better in this match.Sir Alex Fergusson was creating a strong and powerfull team in this days.I feel sory because we couldn't play second game in Belgrade because in this days Serbia was in war"



source http://www.crvenazvezdafk.com

[SALFORD RED]

Cheers for posting that up, very interesting to read. :)

Just wondered if there is anywhere to click on the page on your link to change the site to English as i wouldn't mind reading some of the things on there.
.

[Skele]

Cheers for posting that up, very interesting to read. :)

Just wondered if there is anywhere to click on the page on your link to change the site to English as i wouldn't mind reading some of the things on there.
.

Just click on GBR flag on top right corner.
by the way-This is a new site and it's not finished yet.So, maybe,you'll see some parts on english and some on serbian language.

[SALFORD RED]

Just click on GBR flag on top right corner.
by the way-This is a new site and it's not finished yet.So, maybe,you'll see some parts on english and some on serbian language.

ooopps !!:eek: Did not even see that, Thanks mate.
Just spent a good 30 minutes reading on there, some really interesting stuff, and for a new site thats not finnished it's looking very good.
Bookmarked it now so i can do more reading later.
Thanks again. :)

[Skele]

ooopps !!:eek: Did not even see that, Thanks mate.
Just spent a good 30 minutes reading on there, some really interesting stuff, and for a new site thats not finnished it's looking very good.
Bookmarked it now so i can do more reading later.
Thanks again. :)
you are welcome
BTW-It's been funny 30 minutes.Did you understand a thing during this time......or you'v changed language at time......lol.....
It's new promoted site of Red Star and I like it.

[SALFORD RED]

you are welcome
BTW-It's been funny 30 minutes.Did you understand a thing during this time......or you'v changed language at time......lol.....
It's new promoted site of Red Star and I like it.

LOL, i meant i was reading AFTER i changed to English . lmao.

[Red Devil]

Lovely post Skele, nice to read.

Not impressed with the title word 'Munch', I thought it was meant to be 'Munich' :) not a bad post for a Serbian in a different language. I have amended the words.

Lovely post Skele, nice to read.

not a bad post for a Serbian in a different language. I have amended the words. The word in German is actually Munchen and in many euro languages too.

[Shadow_]

http://i7.tinypic.com/6o3n14w.jpg

[akash_reds]

this was a really dark day in the history of football!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shadow_]

I find it on manutdzone.com. This's amazing imo.


http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1254/flowersprintas5.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flowersprintas5.jpg)

Full screen: http://www.manutdzone.com/viewpoint/flowerofmanchester.htm

[stevosco]

We love them
We mourn for them
Unlucky boys of Red
I wish I'd gone down
Gone down with them
To where Mother Nature makes their bed
We miss them
Every night we kiss them
Their faces fixed in our heads
I wish I'd gone down
Gone down with them
To where Mother Nature makes their bed
They can't hurt you
Their style will never desert you
Because they're all safely dead
I wish I'd gone down
Gone down with them

nice link you posted m8 ... :)

[sweet fa]

an excellent thread ,i love reading about past utd greats,this is the saddest of all stories ,but is the foundation of this great club.the phoenix rose from the ashes of despair,every utd fan needs to know about munich to really fall in love with this club.

[Skele]

cant believe what I found

check this out

http://img40591.pictiger.com/images/9097773/z/


It's a ticket for their last match

[Red Devil]

This ticket is dated November 1958 - 9 months AFTER the crash.

[Skele]

This ticket is dated November 1958 - 9 months AFTER the crash.
LMAO:D
naah,mate...the date is 5 II 1958.I suppose that you know that II is Roman number 2;).It looks like No 11 but,it is not.


btw ticket text goes like this

'Stadium of Yugoslavian National Army-Belgrade

Europien Champions cup

Red Star-Manchester United

South,Standing

5 II 1958

price 200 dinares'

[Red Devil]

Ah I see, you do it in roman!! ;)

[Jazz 16]

Im just going to add a few bits about the subject, if thats ok?:)

Munich Clock
On 25th of Feb 1960, Dan Marsden, chairman of the Ground Committee,
unveiled the Munich clock, a poignant reminder commermorating the players,
club officials, members of the press and others who died in the disaster.

The clock is situated under the Manchester United Football Club sign at the
front of Old Trafford's South stand. On the United road corner of K stand is the
Munich plaque, once again in memory of those that died so tragically.
It was unveiled, also on the 25th by Matt Busby.


Babes Last Game at Old Trafford
On January 25th, the Old Trafford faithful saw the Babes play there for the last
time. Busby's all-conquering team beat Ipswich town 2-0 in this 4th round FA
Cup tie. One of the greatest of them all, Bobby Charlton scored both goals.
Before the next round of the cup was played, seven of Bobby's team-mates
were dead, an eighth, Duncan Edwards, died 2 days after United's 5th round
win over Sheffield Wednesday.

The Last Match of The Babes
On the 5th of February, United were in Belgrade for the 2nd leg of the European
Cup Quarter Final against the Yugolslav champions.
United held a 2-1 advantage from the home leg 2 weeks earlier.
The Babes got off to a great start and quietened the huge,
intimidating 55,000 crowd by going 3-0 up early doors. The
crowd then turned on the Babes. A number of subsequent reports on
the game questioned a number of the referee's decisions, including giving the
home team a very dubious penalty. They got back in the game and made it 3-3
on the night but United went through 5-4 on aggregate. The next day,
United's plane crashed at the airport.

First Game after Munich
On february 18th, amid an emotional atmosphere at OT, United played their
first game since the disaster. The crowd of nearly 60,000 wept openly in
memory of those who had lost their lives. Their red and white scarves were
draped in black that day.

The space for the United line up on the programme was left blank as no one
knew who the team would be. United won the game with a complete make
shift side. 3-0 with Shay Brennan getting 2 on his debut and Alex Dawson
grabbing the other. Legends like Foulkes and Gregg played in this game,
which was only 2 weeks after they had been involved in the crash.
There is footage of them after the game and the emptyness in their eyes was
there for all to see. They seemed lost but they were brave enough to play the
game and win, despite the odds.

What made the victory even more remarkable is that United had failed to beat
Wednesday in the previous 3 cup games, losing 0-6, 0-1 and 0-2.
The wednesday captain on the night was Albert Quixall, who would later on
join United.

League Football Resumes
United's first league game after the disaster was a 1-1 home draw with
Forest. Jimmy Murphy, Busby's right hand man, assumed charge of the team
affairs while Sir Matt recovered. The attendance of 66,123 at the time
set a club post war league attendance record at Old Trafford.

Matt Busby Arrives Home
On 18th of April 1958 Matt busby arrived back at his home in Kings Road,
Chorlton, 71 days after the Munich disaster. A huge crowd turned out to
welcome him back.

Byrne Keeps His Promise
Following United's disappointing Fa Cup final defeat to Villa in 1957,
Roger Byrne, the United captain, promised the fans that they would be back
at Wembley the following year. Byrne was true to his word, but sadly he never
made the final. he lost his life in Munich, 3 months before United stepped out
at Wembley to face Bolton in the final.

Against The Odds
Jimmy Murphy led the team out to Wembley against all the odds.
They had somehow made it to the final. Matt Busby sat in the stadium watching.
However, this makeshift side were not good enough on the day to beat Nat
Lofthouse and his Bolton team, who won 2-0. United became the first team
to lose 2 finals in arow in the 20th century. They also had their keeper injured,
both years running. United's keeper was taken out of the game and with no
subs in those days, there was only going to be one winner.

None of the Bolton side had previously played for another club, also a first time
that had happened in a final.

Foulkes The Indestructable
Despite being involved in the tragedy, Bill Foulkes ended the 57/58 season
having played in ALL 42 of United's league games. Dennis Viollet was the only
other player to have competed in both the first and last games of the season.
On the 9th of January 1953 Foulkes played the first of his 61 Fa Cup games for
United. Remarkably all 61 appearences were made consecutively.

[Skele]

Grandad
Yeah,my grandad was the lucky one who has been on this historical match.Babes last one in Belgrade.He was and he is still hardcore Red Star fan.He was 25 than,and just finnishing the army.He use to tell me about the passion and everything,before the match.Everybody were happy to see some English club,cos,he said in these days everybody had big sympathies for English people,becose the match date was relative soon after the end of WW2.My grandad was keeping his match ticket for many,many years,before,some day he decided to sold it to some English tourist-UTD fan from Manchester,for a simbolic price-1958Dinares(less than 20 pounds;) ) .'It's somebodies other turn to be an owner of most important piece of paper in humans history',he said and 'sold' it.

Memory keeping
You may probably don't know,but every year,on 6th Febryary,Football Club Red Star-Belgrade gives an honour for Babes on one way or another.Whan it's possible they go in Manchester on crash anniversary,to spend time,as they say,with friends for whole life.

Two clubs fans
Im not realy sure how does it works in England,but I know that some Red Star fans supports UTD just like their own club.So this year,an die hard Red Star and UTD fan(can't remember the name right now)came on anniversary in Manchester.But how?His trip started January 16 in Belgrade and it finished February 6th in Manchester.He came at OT with his bicycle.He was traveling more than 20 days,driving his bike few thousands miles from Belgrade to Manchester.Some of you have probably heard for this lad.

[Jazz 16]

hey they are some great stories there Skele. Thanks for sharing mate.
Its great to have heard those stories from your grandad.
I didnt realise the huge bond that remained between the clubs.
I loved the story of the guy who cycled lol. Must have had a
sore butt after that trip.


I loved this bit from the first article you posted:


"We have put a flowers on the pitch of OT wich was full of UTD fans who were so quiet.It was a minute of silence.I remember a big applause of OT whan they have heard that we are from Red Star.I'll remember this for the rest of my life"

[Skele]

It was a gigantic duel of two super teams; one side were led by Mitic and Sekularac, while Edwards and Charlton led the other. Unfortunately, it was the last match of Busby’s Babes, who would perish the next day in an aeroplane crash at Munich airport

Crvena Zvezda played Manchester United in the quarterfinal of the third European Cup in the season 1957/58.
On their way to the quarterfinals, Zvezda eliminated Stade Dudelange from Luxembourg (5-0 in an away game and 9-1 in a home game, which is the most convincing European victory in the history of the club), and then a Swedish club Norrköping (2-2 in Sweden, 2-1 in Belgrade), while Manchester eliminated the Irish Shamrock Rovers (6-0, 3-2) and Dukla Prague (3-0, 0-1).
The crowd were expecting great duels between legendary Rajko Mitic and young Bobby Charlton, incredible Dragoslav Ðekularac and the best player in England’s history Duncan Edwards, and finally, between a great striker Tommy Taylor and the best European goalkeeper Vladimir Beara.

The first match was played at Old Trafford on 14 January 1958 and the hero of the game was Beara, whose great saves helped Zvezda to finish the first half with a clean sheet, while Tasic gave them a 1-0 lead.
The home team succeeded in reversing the score in the second half, as Coleman and Charlton scored for the final 2-1.
The return match was scheduled for 5 February and it took place at JNA Stadium in front of 52,000 spectators. The start was shocking – after 90 seconds Dennis Viollet scored, Charlton’s goal on 15 minutes was disallowed for offside, but the future world champions managed to produce two goals in three minutes and the first half ended 0-3.
The second half brought a fantastic turn of events. Already on 47 minutes Kostic scored and 8 minutes later, after a duel with Fox, Tasic was given a penalty kick and converted it, while Cosic missed an opportunity to kick the ball into an empty goal.

Morgans strike hit the post and in 88th minute Manchester goalkeeper Gregg raced beyond the penalty box holding the ball in his hands. Bora Kostic took advantage of a situation and equalized. Zvezda was just a goal away from the third match, but there was no time to completely reverse the score and so Manchester went through to the semi-finals.
Although they fought a fierce battle on the pitch, the players of the two teams were on exceptionally good terms with each other and they spent the evening after the game together at the Majestic Hotel in Belgrade, making arrangements for a new match.
Only some of the players of the English side would live to see that match, as their plane would crash into a house at the end of a runway in Munich on 6 February 1958, at 3 pm. 21 people would die on the spot and many of the players who would survive the accident would never play on such a level as they had played before.
http://www.crvenazvezdafk.com/Slike/7/10/1958-karta-za-tekmu.jpg

http://www.crvenazvezdafk.com/Slike/7/10/1958_last_line-up_red_star_.jpg

http://www.crvenazvezdafk.com/Slike/7/10/memorial_handbookx768.jpg

OFFICIAL TEXT FROM RED STAR'S WEB SITE

50 years ago today, on 6 February 1958, a plane carrying Manchester United players home after the second leg European Cup quarterfinal with Crvena Zvezda crashed in Munich. 21 lives were ended immediately and two other men suffered injuries that were later to claim their lives in hospital. Eight of the Busby’s Babes perished in this disaster, including Duncan Edwards, the team’s most talented player.

On 5 February 1958, Manchester United played a spectacular match in the second leg European Cup quarterfinal that ended in a 3-3 draw, and the English side went through to the semi-finals thank to their previous 2-1 victory at home. The players of the two clubs and a great number of journalists from Belgrade and Manchester spent the evening after the game socializing in the Majestic hotel and Skadarlija restaurant in Belgrade.

The two groups took leave of each other as close companions, with a promise to keep up their friendship and to keep the closeness between their clubs for future generations.
The English party set off for England the next day by plane. On their way back home, the BEA flight 609 made a scheduled refuelling stop in Munich. It was exceptionally cold and the city was covered with snow, including the Munich-Reim airport runway, as the plane made two abortive attempts to take off. The plane crew even considered postponing the flight until the next day, so that some of the players telegraphed home warning that they were likely to be detained overnight.

However, the pilots made a fatal decision to make another attempt to take off. At 3.04 pm, the plane was on the runway again. It managed to leave the ground and then a disaster happened. At the end of the runway, the plane failed to gain adequate height and crashed into a fence surrounding the airport and then its wing and tail collided into a house. The ****pit crashed into a tree, while the other wing collided into a wooden shed full of fuel and tires which exploded on impact.

When the survivors composed themselves after a few moments, they faced a horrible sight.
The back part of the plane was gone. Bill Fox and Harry Gregg aided the other survivors and dragged Bobby Charlton, Matt Busby and some of their remaining team-mates and passengers clear of the wreckage.

Seven Manchester United players died on the spot – Rodger Byrne, Geoff Bent, Mark Jones, David Pegg, Liam Whelan, Eddie Colman and Tommy Taylor. Three club officials also perished - Walter Crickmer (secretary), Bert Whalley (chief-coach) and Tom Curry (trainer).

Only one of the nine journalists who were in Belgrade with the club survived, while a steward, a travel agent, and a supporter complete the list of those who died immediately.
Duncan Edwards died 15 days later in the Rechts der Isar Hospital in Munich, while three weeks after the crash the co-pilot, Ken Rayment, also lost his fight for life. Johnny Barry and manager Matt Busby survived, but Berry never played football again, just like Jackie Blanchflower who suffered a fractured pelvis and crushed kidneys in the crash.

Seven players stayed with Matt Busby who would return to the team bench later that season. They would be the backbone of the team that would play in the FA Cup final that season. Over the next 10 years, a Scottish manager would manage to produce another Busby’s Babes generation, led by Bobby Charlton. In 1968, that team would become the first English side to win the European Champions’ Cup.

6 February will forever remain a very important date for Manchester United and their supporters, and as a sign of remembrance of those who had died in Munich, the club added a third colour to their standard red and white kit – black, usually worn on socks.

The Munich tragedy brought together Manchester United and Crvena Zvezda and created a strong emotional relationship between Serbian football fans and the club of Old Trafford, a relationship that still exists, strengthened by former Zvezda captain Nemanja Vidi¿’s presence in Manchester United squad.

And more about cooperation

Crvena Zvezda delegation, namely the president of the club Toplica Spasojevic, the secretary-general Zoran Damjanovic and the president of the Veterans’ Association Vladica Damjanoviã, attended the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of one of the greatest tragedies in the history of football in Manchester on Wednesday.

On 6 February 1958, the plane carrying Manchester United players crashed into a fence at Munich airport in third attempt to take off. Seven players of the famous Busby’s Babes generation that were returning home from Belgrade after playing Crvena Zvezda perished in the crash.

Crvena Zvezda delegation was given a great publicity at both the commemoration at Old Trafford and a dinner that followed. This was an opportunity to confirm good relationship between two football giants.

”We talked about many aspects of the future cooperation of the two clubs with Manchester United representatives. Manager Sir Alex Fergusson emphasized that our coaches who wanted to come to England for further education would be made welcome. The proposition concerning friendly matches between Crvena Zvezda, Manchester United and Bayern Munich was met with approval and we’ll surely discuss it in near future. We are exceptionally glad that our gift to Manchester United ended in one of the most prominent places in their trophy hall, and that describes best the strength of the bond between the two clubs,” Crvena Zvezda president Toplica Spasojevic said.

Vladica Popovic used the occasion to reminisce about unforgettable games back in 1958.

”It was a fantastic Manchester United generation. I still remember the matches we played in Manchester and Belgrade. Crvena Zvezda veterans maintain a close contact with their Manchester United peers and I’m very glad we met again here. One of the greatest generations in the history of football was decimated in Munich, but Manchester United remained standing and they are in the very top of world football today. That shows their strength and we should all look up to that,” Vladica Popovic said.

[ayrton-senna3]

Thank you, it's very sad that they never play together.

[Ritesh MU]

This make me feel so sad my eyes is filled up.

Always in heart.

[piazza]

Reading all of this always gives me chills. :(