What is problem with the Glazers?

[Brock]

I have followed this club quite closely since i was around 8 or 9.

But there is one thing I do not understand - Why are some fans so opposed to the Glazer family and their affairs with man utd? In my opinion, he has done a fabulous job. For example, we are the richest club in the world, and he has financed the signings of some great additions to the squad. I have not read of any feuds between Fergie and the Glazers, etc.

So, why are fans so angry at the Glazer family? I hear people saying they "hate" the Glazer family... You know, Hitler "hated" the jews. Moreover, I can recall people burning the American flag during the takeover. This just appalled especially because I am American myself.

Anyways, without getting caught up in the political bullsh!t, can you all share some thoughts with me on this matter?

[Red Devil]

For example, we are the richest club in the world NOT! We were before they took over, but now so deep in debt they need a JCB to dig us out.

considering all the hullaballoo when they bought United, they keep a low profile now. As it happens things seem to be rolling along smoothly but, when Fergie goes, who knows what will happen because we all know it is HE who runs United now.

[Brock]

NOT! We were before they took over, but now so deep in debt they need a JCB to dig us out.

considering all the hullaballoo when they bought United, they keep a low profile now. As it happens things seem to be rolling along smoothly but, when Fergie goes, who knows what will happen because we all know it is HE who runs United now.


Oh, I wasnt quite sure about the money thing. I just remember that article few weeks back.

And when fergie does retire, I hope they will hire someone who is familiar with the club and its functions.

[migueldadon]

i think it might of been because of the fact that people tought that they were just in it for the money and just forget about what happened on the pitch because they really didnt know much about united and I doubt they knew alot about football, but I think they have done a good job and Id rather have them than hicks and gillet'

[akash_reds]

hicks and gillet are awful........i think glazer is better than that.....

[RedArmy]

I have followed this club quite closely since i was around 8 or 9.

But there is one thing I do not understand - Why are some fans so opposed to the Glazer family and their affairs with man utd? In my opinion, he has done a fabulous job. For example, we are the richest club in the world, and he has financed the signings of some great additions to the squad. I have not read of any feuds between Fergie and the Glazers, etc.

So, why are fans so angry at the Glazer family? I hear people saying they "hate" the Glazer family... You know, Hitler "hated" the jews. Moreover, I can recall people burning the American flag during the takeover. This just appalled especially because I am American myself.

Anyways, without getting caught up in the political bullsh!t, can you all share some thoughts with me on this matter?

Brock, I've decided to not waste my time engaging too much with someone who clearly understands nothing at all about what the Glazer takeover entailed.

However.

It's more than the debt... The heart and soul has been ripped out of the football club, something that many of us grew up loving and worshipping has been changed into something unrecognisable, possibly beyond repair.

It was an act of war, it's as simple as that. And until that war is won, those United fans who do care will do anything and everything to show the *******s from America they're not wanted at OUR football club.

The message is clear Love United - Hate Glazer.

[spellbound]

The greedy family is making the fans to pay for their bank loans to fund the overtake of the club. And the Glazer family is NOT generous.
They've been very successful to ruin the Am football club in Tampa. I havent renewed my club membership and wont buy any merchendise as long as the thiefs are owing "my club". I refuse to fund the already wealthy who stole our club.

[Keano!]

We're paying for his debts. He's using Manchester United FC as a company to make money from but as long as he provides Fergie with support and doesn't cause trouble like Hicks and Gillette at Pile, then, I've no complaints. Just lower ticket prices a bit!

[Brock]

Yes, I have heard of the increase in ticket prices. That is a shame... I dont know this from experience but I have heard the "real" supporters cant afford a ticket anymore and now OT is filled with business men. That is disappointing.

3-1 United :)

[Jazz 16]

Salford Red showed me this post. Its a good read and might help you understand a bit better:


So the automatic cup scheme was the last straw for me and my Dad, I had been a LMTB/season ticket holder at OT since I was 4, back in the season 1982-83, and experienced my first Wembley final that year. Up until last year I trooped to Old Trafford remembering when I could hear the crowd roar for the big games 3 miles away as I tugged my dad to get to the ground quicker, I remember Whiteside making me the proudest lad in my Bolton school in 1985, I remember once being asked who I support I answered ‘I am Manchester United me’, I remember stopping dead under the tunnel on the last home game of the season in 1993 in awe at the celebrations, so this is what being the champions of England means. I remember idolising Robson and then Cantona and admiring Ole. I remember it all.

No new memories from 2007. I joined in the marches of 2005, sang the chants and waited for the fans to say no more, it never came, most just shrugged their shoulders and said I am alright. That left me disillusioned. I wanted to see Old Trafford empty against Chelsea, but too many where taking their nephew to their first ever game. I wanted to see riots; I wanted to hear Malcolm Glazer had been hanged in a MUFC scarf. I wanted rebellion.

I became a founding member of FC and admired the way they have been set up. But like many I couldn’t give up United, I just vowed league matches only and cancelled my subscription to the voluntary auto cup scheme. I moved to the cheapest seats in the ground and took up extra work to help me pay. I have struggled with my conscious and wish I could say, not one penny like some others. If more did I would have followed, I guess that makes me a sheep of some kind and apart of the problem. But I stuck there supporting the shirts in a selfish way. In the summer of 2007, when prices shot up despite TV money rocketing and being told I have to buy cup tickets despite not being able to attend all midweek games. I could afford it but this was a complete **** take so my Dad and I quit. The decision was right and I wish I had done it in 2005 and then at least I would have a right to take the moral high ground.

My Father and I decided to go and watch FC United instead, our first match was at home against Ossett, The big advantage is that I can take my step son to watch the games and he can actively support a club. On entering the ground I was reminded that in some grounds you still **** on a wall and you can sit where you want. I noticed the flags and felt at home with the Dad and Lad flag. I enjoyed the atmosphere, the singing, the scarf waving and surprisingly the football. We stayed at the end and the players appreciated the support and I felt this was right. My lad now has his half season ticket and we will get to as many games as we can, we have started a list of grounds he has visited, a list he will add to in the years to come.

I feel in the future FC will have to make decisions about the use of commercial money to ensure success, but the difference is, it will be the fans decisions on where the club goes, and as the recent boycott showed I think there is really only one united. I am not sure how I feel about the fans that remain at Old Trafford, I understand their love for the club but I don’t know how they remain blinkered to the rape of the club, and it deserves such a powerful word, maybe they don’t care. Maybe football is just a leisure pursuit and a business, it never used to be. Every goal we conceded used to genuinely hurt me and I would worry all week when we due to play at Anfield.

I still miss Manchester United Football Club, but the odd thing is I would still be missing it if I was still there, because it died sometime and I am unsure when it happened. As Elvis once sang ‘who can tell when summer turns to autumn’.

But there is life after MUFC and it has been reborn in FCUM. The soul is one is an apt name and now I look forward to every game and my children will share that with me. I hope we climb the leagues, I hope we get our own ground and I hope everyone continues to love it. I urge every United fan to come to FC United, come and support a club without profit but with soul, with reason, for hope and for glory.

[rydersonthestorm]

I am not so sure why people are so upset withe the glazers, i can understand some people problem but all this started when united became a plc putting business before football. The prices where always going to rise and the club was always aming to be a big commercial success, lets not forget before the era of the premier league united where not the big success story alot of people seem to think. Alot of other clubs had won the league and cup's etc a simular amount of times and it is only since the money came into the game that united have come into there own.
People are happy to have it all their own way if you want success off te back of commercial success don't be suprised when it goes further and costs the fans out of their own pocket.

[Red Devil]

I think the biggest bone of contention is the fact that we went from the richest club in the world WITH NO DEBT to a club only second to Real Madrid in the world now IN DEBT!


On an aside: Liverpool are catching us, fast!

[rydersonthestorm]

I think the biggest bone of contention is the fact that we went from the richest club in the world WITH NO DEBT to a club only second to Real Madrid in the world now IN DEBT!


On an aside: Liverpool are catching us, fast!
Thats the only thing i can understand about people being upset, he is playing a risky game but if united carry on winning they will be able to pay off the debts and still invest in players. The problem may occur if things go wrong on the field.

[Brock]

Salford Red showed me this post. Its a good read and might help you understand a bit better:


So the automatic cup scheme was the last straw for me and my Dad, I had been a LMTB/season ticket holder at OT since I was 4, back in the season 1982-83, and experienced my first Wembley final that year. Up until last year I trooped to Old Trafford remembering when I could hear the crowd roar for the big games 3 miles away as I tugged my dad to get to the ground quicker, I remember Whiteside making me the proudest lad in my Bolton school in 1985, I remember once being asked who I support I answered ‘I am Manchester United me’, I remember stopping dead under the tunnel on the last home game of the season in 1993 in awe at the celebrations, so this is what being the champions of England means. I remember idolising Robson and then Cantona and admiring Ole. I remember it all.

No new memories from 2007. I joined in the marches of 2005, sang the chants and waited for the fans to say no more, it never came, most just shrugged their shoulders and said I am alright. That left me disillusioned. I wanted to see Old Trafford empty against Chelsea, but too many where taking their nephew to their first ever game. I wanted to see riots; I wanted to hear Malcolm Glazer had been hanged in a MUFC scarf. I wanted rebellion.

I became a founding member of FC and admired the way they have been set up. But like many I couldn’t give up United, I just vowed league matches only and cancelled my subscription to the voluntary auto cup scheme. I moved to the cheapest seats in the ground and took up extra work to help me pay. I have struggled with my conscious and wish I could say, not one penny like some others. If more did I would have followed, I guess that makes me a sheep of some kind and apart of the problem. But I stuck there supporting the shirts in a selfish way. In the summer of 2007, when prices shot up despite TV money rocketing and being told I have to buy cup tickets despite not being able to attend all midweek games. I could afford it but this was a complete **** take so my Dad and I quit. The decision was right and I wish I had done it in 2005 and then at least I would have a right to take the moral high ground.

My Father and I decided to go and watch FC United instead, our first match was at home against Ossett, The big advantage is that I can take my step son to watch the games and he can actively support a club. On entering the ground I was reminded that in some grounds you still **** on a wall and you can sit where you want. I noticed the flags and felt at home with the Dad and Lad flag. I enjoyed the atmosphere, the singing, the scarf waving and surprisingly the football. We stayed at the end and the players appreciated the support and I felt this was right. My lad now has his half season ticket and we will get to as many games as we can, we have started a list of grounds he has visited, a list he will add to in the years to come.

I feel in the future FC will have to make decisions about the use of commercial money to ensure success, but the difference is, it will be the fans decisions on where the club goes, and as the recent boycott showed I think there is really only one united. I am not sure how I feel about the fans that remain at Old Trafford, I understand their love for the club but I don’t know how they remain blinkered to the rape of the club, and it deserves such a powerful word, maybe they don’t care. Maybe football is just a leisure pursuit and a business, it never used to be. Every goal we conceded used to genuinely hurt me and I would worry all week when we due to play at Anfield.

I still miss Manchester United Football Club, but the odd thing is I would still be missing it if I was still there, because it died sometime and I am unsure when it happened. As Elvis once sang ‘who can tell when summer turns to autumn’.

But there is life after MUFC and it has been reborn in FCUM. The soul is one is an apt name and now I look forward to every game and my children will share that with me. I hope we climb the leagues, I hope we get our own ground and I hope everyone continues to love it. I urge every United fan to come to FC United, come and support a club without profit but with soul, with reason, for hope and for glory.

Thanks mate. I can understand that view entirely now. Its hard living here in the states and trying to follow foreign teams. Sports are secondary here... We use it to relax and for something to do.

When I went over to the U.K last summer, I went to some of the preseason games - Charlton athletic against the new zealand national team. I recall sitting in the cheering section with my mates and it was incredible. Anytime the new zealand fans began to sing, all the the Charlton fans would stand and sing, "Sit down, Shut up" It was awesome. I loved the passion in only a preseason game.

Football over there, and everywhere else but here, seems to view football as a number one priority. And when something like the Glazer family does something to ruin that tradition for someone like you jazz, its really heartbreaking.

[Jazz 16]

. And when something like the Glazer family does something to ruin that tradition for someone like you jazz, its really heartbreaking.

You misunderstood mate.
Thats not me in the post. Its an example of how many are feeling and what is happening to the average match going fan. Sal showed me the post. maybe he knows the guy.

[Brock]

You misunderstood mate.
Thats not me in the post. Its an example of how many are feeling and what is happening to the average match going fan. Sal showed me the post. maybe he knows the guy.

Oh :p It was a long night.

[SALFORD RED]

Think this article in todays Telegraph explains very well.


American dream spells nightmare for Liverpool

By Nick Towle, guest columnist
Last Updated: 3:45am GMT 27/01/2008

The concerns that Liverpool fans are currently experiencing will strike a chord with the Manchester United supporters who resented their club falling into the hands of American owners three years ago.

When the Glazers took over at Old Trafford, I decided I would not be renewing my season ticket because I felt it wasn't my club any more and I have not been back.

At the time it was a very difficult step to take because United had been my club and any committed football fan knows what that means. But, like so many others, I didn't like what was happening and feared for the future.

We could all see that the Glazers weren't football fans and that they were taking out huge loans to secure the deal. From being a club with no debt, United were suddenly a club with heavy debts.

The cost was bound to be passed on to the supporters and that has proved to be the case. The price of the season ticket I had has more than doubled in the three seasons since I gave it up.

The Liverpool takeover was greeted very differently. There was a great fanfare for Tom Hicks and George Gillett, who made very public appearances, gave lots of interviews and made all the right noises. They gave the impression their regime would be nothing like the Glazers' and most Liverpool fans fell for the charm offensive.

We were approached by some Liverpool supporters and we cautioned them not to take everything at face value. Now, more and more Liverpool fans realise that the big PR front was exactly that. It seems they have the same way of doing things as the Glazers after all.

If anything, I think Liverpool are probably going to be in bigger debt that United. The refinancing deal and the new stadium could put them in even more trouble than the Glazers have inflicted on Old Trafford.

Far from benefiting from the investment of American money, Liverpool are likely to find themselves funding Hicks' baseball and ice hockey teams across the Atlantic. He has openly admitted as much. The fans want to see money coming into their football club, not going out of it.

The fact is that Liverpool are being treated like a franchise. That's the way of it in the US but it's not the way we regard our football clubs over here.

The Americans don't understand the game in England and everything about it - the fans, the traditions and what a football club means. Even a club like United, with a global following, has always been a community club.

This is not just a problem for United and Liverpool. It's a bad and dangerous situation for English football in general. The game here will eventually suffer because the loyal lifelong fans will be priced out of their clubs.

I don't have any pangs of regret about staying away from Old Trafford now because I see what a money-fixated club it has become. It's all about profit, profit, profit.

Sadly, that's the way football is going and I feel sorry for the game. It's going to get worse. Fans are being asked to dig deeper into their pockets to feed this commercial machine. It's becoming crazy.

I keep in touch with what's happening at United and I watch the matches on television, so to that extent I still feed the machine. But I don't have to fork out more than £1,000 a year to watch them.

The ticket prices have soared, just as we predicted, and this season we've seen the ludicrous automatic cup ticket scheme in operation at United.

Whether season ticket holders like it or not, they have had to buy a ticket for every home cup match as well. That included the Carling Cup tie against Coventry City, when United put out a reserve team. The club botched it up badly this season and they now realise that, so I am sure there will be changes for next season.

United are telling everyone how they plan to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Munich air crash on Feb 6 and pay further tribute to those who died when they play Manchester City at Old Trafford on Feb 10.

They say there will be no commercialism and have produced a one-off Fifties-style shirt for the occasion without the sponsor's name. We understand there will, however, be an AIG logo on display with the picture panels of the new Munich Tunnel, which depicts the story of the Busby Babes and Matt Busby's rebuilding of the team after the tragedy.

That has, to say the least, not gone down well with United fans, but then it is a reflection of the route the club have taken. People may wonder why we complain and continue to campaign for the genuine fan. United are having another successful season, playing attacking, attractive football and Old Trafford is full to its 76,000 capacity. But many of the true fans no longer go and what will happen if United have a dip in fortune? Will they still turn up in such numbers to feed the commercial machine and pay off the interest on the club's debts?

More fans will be driven away and be restricted to watching their football on television. I'm currently in Sierra Leone on business and the Premier League is enormously popular here. It gives you an insight into the global appeal of English football.

But live football is getting out of reach for the traditional English football fan and I believe that is a trend that should sadden all of us.

• Nick Towle is the chairman of the Manchester United Supporters' Trust (MUST), formerly Shareholders United. He has asked for the fee for this article to be donated to the George Best Foundation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;jsessionid=152OTSOPE1FBDQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ 0IV0?xml=/sport/2008/01/27/sfngue127.xml

[Brock]

I think the picture of the Babes on display at OT represents this whole ordeal. The AIG symbol is on the picture and the fans wanted it taken off if im not mistaken. But the Glazer's insisted it be up :rolleyes:

[Red Devil]

The AIG symbol should NOT be there

[Drew9]

the problem is that they have stuck their own debt against our club ... still if they ontinue to back us by buying quality like anderson tevez and hargo then who's going to complain :)

[spellbound]

and the Glazer shouldnt be there either..they dont belong at OT at all.

[asaf cohen]

I don't know that much about the glazers. As i live in Australia and watch the matches on TV I don't have to cough up money. Here we have "Australian rules football" (it's nothing compared to the real football) and the prices arn't that bad. To go and watch a regular season match it's about 25 Australian dollars. That's about 9 pounds. And a season ticket is around 250 Australian dollars or about 100pounds. If i had to pay thousands of dollars to go and watch my team i would boycot the sport all together. SO you FCUM supporters i know where you are coming from.

I read about FCUM on wikipedia, but i would like to know more about them, could some when give a link to a story or something about them.

[SALFORD RED]

I don't know that much about the glazers. As i live in Australia and watch the matches on TV I don't have to cough up money. Here we have "Australian rules football" (it's nothing compared to the real football) and the prices arn't that bad. To go and watch a regular season match it's about 25 Australian dollars. That's about 9 pounds. And a season ticket is around 250 Australian dollars or about 100pounds. If i had to pay thousands of dollars to go and watch my team i would boycot the sport all together. SO you FCUM supporters i know where you are coming from.

I read about FCUM on wikipedia, but i would like to know more about them, could some when give a link to a story or something about them.

You have a Private Message, good to see that someone young, half way round the world isn't as blind as some a lot closer to home. :D ;)
.

[Red Devil]

and the Glazer shouldnt be there either..they dont belong at OT at all.of course they do, and legally so. Your blind attitude to what is normal business procedure is incorrect.

Lets look at this from another perspective. Manchester Car Manufacturing Company owns the biggest car plant in the UK, and employs a great many Mancunians. The great American Car Company comes along and offers a ridiculous sum to buy out the plant - the present owner agrees a price and the deal is done. Nobody bats an eyelid; the government do nothing.

When United was bought by the Americans, every man and his dog was up in arms, protest rallies, breakaway units formed a brand new footy club and season tickets were ripped up or burnt.

Result: United is still there. Same fan base, same success ON the field and, as a business, is still thriving but no longer at the beck and call of shareholders who couldn't give a damn about the football club only £££££££.

The Manchester United PLC was dead and the club firmly back in private hands, albeit American. Ownership will change again, it always does, nothing lasts forever.

I am a member of MUST, one of those fans saving for the day when WE can register a legitimate opportunity to try and buy the Club ourselves, the fans. BUT, it does not mean I am being completely anti Glazer either.

The staus quo is being maintained at United, and Fergie, who really runs the club, still reigns supreme and the Glazers know it. I am not sure, but I think LFC might actually owe more now, than United.

When United was a PLC - many of you seem to have forgotten that period in our history. Fans at that time were protesting even then - against the marketting of a business as opposed to a football club; indeed, even the word football club was removed, during that period from the club badge (see my avatar). The fans hated it and most boycotted the megastore; and still do - I know I do. Eric Cantona left United due to them "marketting" him and his name - so blatantly money spinning. He thought it wrong.

Grow up people, the glazers are here, for now. Enjoy the success we do enjoy, and forget about who actually owns the place. The time to worry is when its stops being a success ON the field. We do not have divine rights to win anything, we need to fight for that success.

[kingstreet]

Devil hits a nail squarely on the head here and in doing so sums up neatly the difference between United fans over Glazer ownership.

Back in 2005, we split into two main groups. Those (like Devil) who see United only as the team on the field and those like me, who see United as a total package of the club as a whole.

There is no right and wrong in this. It's all a question of perception.

Devil has given his. He feels as long as everything is alright on the pitch, we should shut up and enjoy it.

My feeling is different. What I must do at this point is approach from a slightly different angle and from pre-Glazer days and look at the game in England as a whole.

I've always thought and felt that supporting a football club is more akin to religious devotion than a desire to be entertained. As far back as 1973, when I was 7, I stood behind a lad waiting to be treated at Hope Hospital. He was dressed in the uniform of the day, Docs, Oxford bags and a navy and yellow "star" jumper. When asked his religion he said "Manchester United" and that has stuck with me through these last thirty five years.

We get fulfillment from going to games. We feel guilty if we fail to attend. We experience fervour and joy when we score. Thousands of us congregate together in a ceremony which, if it was in a church, we would call worship. I can honestly say, for most of my life I've been more devoted to United than I have to God.

If you approach football from this angle, people suggesting its "just a business" and it's "all about money" is tantamount to Salman Rushdie's perception to your average Moslem. Would Catholics welcome an attack on their religion, or their church any better than we would welcome being deemed "customers" and seen merely as a resource to be exploited?

Perhaps life is not as extreme as I'm painting. However I do feel football deserves to be viewed as something akin to religion and not simply viewed as entertainment to be left to the mercy of market forces.

So my starting point here is that Rule 34, paid Directors, shared league gate receipts and restricted dividends were a good feature of the runnning of the game and they should not have been discarded so lightly. In this way, the FA started the "football is only a business" ball rolling. They then went on to allow the Premier League breakaway without safeguarding the welfare of the rest of the game as a whole. In 1991, TV money was split with 50% going to the first division and the other 50% split between the other seventy league clubs.

Following the breakaway, only 5% of TV revenue was allowed to trickle down to the lower leagues. This was yet another mistake by the game's governing body the FA.

Sky came along and pumped billions into the game, but this only benefitted the highest level, where players and agents saw their incomes increase dramatically. This was not the fault of Sky, but of those set the task of running the game as a whole.

During this time, United became a plc. Stock market flotation made the club £11m which was used for the redevelopment of the Stretford End. Shareholders like Martin Edwards and Maurice Watkins made a bundle out of selling some of their shares. Over the next 14 years as a plc, United never raised money from a rights issue and every player purchase and every brick that went into building Old Trafford after the initial investment in 1991/2 came out of the club's income. Paying £67m in dividends over that 14 years seems a steep price for a club that only benefitted by £11m from the whole plc exercise.

This brings us neatly to the environment for the Glazers. We have a business now, not a sporting club, that manages to just about balance the need for revenue to keep a decent, winning side, against claims of exploitation and over commercialisation. For me MUFC duvets and bedside lamps were a step too far...

It's probable the Glazers bought into United (using borrowed money) thinking they'd send up the share price and sell them on at a profit. They had done the same with Formica and Harley Davidson in the States. However, they ended up in the midst of takeover speculation, which if they came out and said they were not planning, would have sent the share price plummetting and their plans for a quick profit straight down the toilet.

They decided United was a cash ganerator, fans would swallow anything thrown at them and they could basically do what they liked with merchandise, sponsorship and ticket prices. No doubt they also view the opportunity to sell sole-TV rights as the major plum to be pulled out of the pudding in the future. They took over United after the Irishmen agreed to sell to them at £3 per share. This valued the business at £790m. Twelve months earlier, it was worth about two thirds of that. Their interest had pushed up the price they had to pay. Even with increased revenue now, it's debatable whether the business (based on the usual business principles) is worth much more than what they paid for it.

Over the last two years, the price of my last ticket (May 2005) has gone up from £29 to £44, or 51%. There is a total of £755m secured on the assets and shares of Manchester United Limited and the cost of that borrowing is now £86m a year. £53m of that is being paid out of profits and another £23m is being added to the debt each year, compounding at 14.25% per annum.

Sales of players and loan deals have helped the figures and players coming in are signed on instalment and performance deals where previously the business had the cash to buy them outright.

It is true that Ferguson has at best, been left alone to manage which is probably the only thing for which we can truly thank the Glazers; keeping out of something of which they know nothing. At worst, they have saddled a debt-free well-run business with a large, cumbersome repayment of interest that exceeds the record profit announced recently and in generating the cash to do this, have priced out generations of United fans who come from towns around Greater Manchester. This may have been happening before, but not at the velocity it is now in the headlong rush to pay the interest. Heaven help us when Ferguson retires. Champions league qualification every year and quarter final every three years might not be the gimme it has been for us for so long. If that starts to happen, Devil and I will once again be singing from the same hymnsheet as the Glazer legacy begins to be felt where the majority will see it; on the pitch.

I don't care about their religious beliefs. I don't care about their nationality. I simply despise their view of the world from behind eyes that view only the chance of profit, eyes that are blind to the beauty of the simple, but beautiful game... football.

[Red Devil]

Crackin' post kingstreet. I too claim my religion as "United" and only recently told someone I go to church on a Saturday!! The thought I was jewish or something but then I said Old Trafford and a light came on.

[kingstreet]

Crackin' post kingstreet. I too claim my religion as "United" and only recently told someone I go to church on a Saturday!! The thought I was jewish or something but then I said Old Trafford and a light came on.
Arf! Nice one, mate!

[decorativeed]

First post, but I'm going to get stuck right in...

the problem is that they have stuck their own debt against our club ... still if they ontinue to back us by buying quality like anderson tevez and hargo then who's going to complain :)

That's a part of the problem - people think that Glazer has been dipping into his own pockets to buy us these players, when it couldn't be further from the truth. Glazer is in it to make money, not to spend money.

In order to buy these players, we've had to sell many more players. We keep hearing about how United spent £50m this summer, but few people mention that we have sold over £31m worth of players this season.

In fact our net spend in the 3 years since the takeover is just £29.2m. An average of less than £10m a year, surely not much different than any club in the league.

The difference is that we have the biggest stadium in the league with gate reciepts of well over £2m per match, we (like all Premier League clubs) recieve a minimum of £20m in TV money, and at least £10m in Champions League money. We got a record £56m deal from a new shirt sponsor and ticket prices increased by an average of about 15%. On top of this last season we won the league, got to the FA cup final and the Champions League semis. Despite all this bringing in record profits, those profits still weren't enough to pay off the £62m interest payments. How on earth will we ever start to pay off the actual loan I've no idea, but I'd hazard a guess at more ticket price increases, kits being replaced every year and who knows what else.

[carlyluvsunited]

In order to buy these players, we've had to sell many more players. We keep hearing about how United spent £50m this summer, but few people mention that we have sold over £31m worth of players this season.

In fact our net spend in the 3 years since the takeover is just £29.2m. An average of less than £10m a year, surely not much different than any club in the league.


So now Glazer is at fault for selling players.

If a player is not part of your plans - you sell him and replace him with one who is.

The fact United have only spent 29.2 million in three years - and won the Prem
League, got to the Cup Final and the semi of the Champs League is a brilliant
achievement surely ?

[decorativeed]

I think you've misunderstood. I'm not saying Glazer has forced the club to sell players, just that the sale of these players is what is actually funding the acquisition of new players. Glazer has put nothing into the club for transfers and in fact we are spending less than we did before the takeover (when we payed C£30m each for Wazza and Rio etc and were still a profitable and debt-free club).

You are right, last year's achievements were very impressive, our best season since the Treble. Unfortunately that still wasn't profitable enough to start to chip into that debt. What will we have to achieve to even begin to pay off that £600m? God forbid we have another few trophyless campaigns.

[Red Devil]

Like all clubs, the players coming IN get all the publicity and people tend not to notice those leaving to make way. In United's case its mainly players on the fringe of first team but not actually "Big Names". The transfer of 18 year old Fred Scuttlebucket to Accrington Stanley, for example, is not going to make news.

[kingstreet]

The just-published United accounts show an £11.3m profit on player trading, so if you get enough Fred Scuttlebuckets, although not big news, the money can be reasonable.

Just for the record, Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson and Kuszczak all signed after 1 July 2007, so they do not appear in the last accounts. We'll have to wait twelve months to see how they were structured.

[kingstreet]

A little off-topic, but having some relevance to the thread, someone on another forum asked for an update on the debt and how much if any was being repaid. Here's the answer;-

The debt is increasing. The senior debt with JPM now stands at £575m, with £425m secured on the assets and undertakings of Manchester United. The other £150m is secured on Red Football's shares in Manchester United.

At current LIBOR (6.63%) the interest on the senior debt is £53m a year. This is being paid out of income, although there is no evidence of this in the recent Manchester United accounts. You'll have to wait for the Red Football accounts in April.

In addition to the senior debt, during the restructure, Red Joint Venture repaid some of the interest roll-up debt from the new JPM loan to reduce the amount outstanding. The new figure at 11/8/06 was £138m. This is increasing at 14.25% pa fixed and repayment has to be made before August 2017. If it runs until maturity, the final total will exceed £500m. This debt is secured on the shares in Red Football, which has as its only asset shares in Manchester United.

If things continue as they are at present with no debt repayment programme, the debt will total just under £1.1billion by 2017, with £575m owed to JPM and another £500m to the hedge funds.

As at 30/6/08, the total outstanding debt will be £755m, with an overdraft facilty of a further £50m which may, or may not, have been drawn down.

I do have "horse's mouth" sources for these stats, the accounts of the various companies. None of them show any element of debt repayment from income.

[Manchester Boy_nWo]

I still don't like the Glazers, but i hope this doesn't get into the heads of even more United fans, but i feel it will for some.

[kingstreet]

I still don't like the Glazers, but i hope this doesn't get into the heads of even more United fans, but i feel it will for some.I'm sorry, could you clarify what you mean. I'm a bit thick today and don't understand. :confused:

[mikeybhoy71]

fergie appears to be happy with the glaziers,he has stated already that it is easier buying a player under them than it was when utd were a PLC,although i still believe that a club should be owned by its fans:D