2012/2013 Pickem Winner
Congratulations to RedDevilDazzy who clinched the winners spot of our pickem predictions game, it was close!!
Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by Sleepy, Aug 27, 2009.
Gotta hand it to you, it's not often people enter discussions like this and expose their ignorance not only about the genre of music they're dismissing, but also the genre of music they're praising. Good job, seriously.
why dont you sit and listen to rap and you will see rappers are smarter than most musicians and and there lyrics are poetry..
they talk about real stuff, not all of them but people like jay-z, method man and so on...
rappers smart :rofl:
ORR Is Right.
Check Out Canibus And Immortal Technique for example if you dont believe me
Of course SOME rappers are free-thinking intellectuals but they're's hardly many
of them and none in the mainstream.
Jay-z & Nas aren't intellectual? Lol, all sentences like this do is prove just how little you know about the genre. As for there not being many intellectuals in the whole of hip-hop - Please, stop passing judgment on an issue you clearly know nothing about.
To all the kids who think it's hilarious to say things like "RAP IS JUST MISSING A C LOL", stop posting. I appreciate the fact you all think you're some sort of musical elitists because you've discovered Porcupine Tree and Opeth (Nice fear of a blank avatar by the way, ur s0 kvlt) but the only thing you're doing in this thread with your childish posts is making yourselves look ignorant. It's pretty ironic that the people who would like you to believe they know so much about music are the most ignorant and clueless people in the thread.
Give me a shout when you're able to produce a beat worth listening to or even better, let us hear your own hip-hop track if it's so easy and requires zero talent.
@abojodeh - You've already said in this thread that you think 2pac was intelligent, stop switching sides every time some other guy comes along and posts some inane string of nonsense.
Nas has a claim but Jay-Z doesn't.
The track I posted is what real rap is like, not that trash that you listen to.
You have no idea what music I listen to, stop trying so hard to validate your opinion. Your ignorance of grime is that you think it's all about "real problems" whereas there is a lot of grime that is just as much about guns, crime & women as hip-hop. Your ignorance of hip-hop is you seem to think that the entire genre begins and ends at 50 cent, your knowledge of it clearly isn't enough to even begin passing judgement on it.
As for Jay-Z not being intelligent.. aside from his obvious intelligence contained both in his rapping and the way he speaks in interviews, you don't get to where he is without being smart, period.
Edit: I won't dignify the comment about grime being "real rap" whereas hip-hop isn't because addressing just how wrong that statement is would take days.
When did I say Jay-Z wasn't intelligent? Exactly, that's what I thought.
As I said, the only mainstream rapper than could be defined an INTELLECTUAL is
Nas, the others just talk about money and material goods like women.
There are the odd references to knives and women but A. they're rare and B. these
are people that don't roll with bodyguards, like your idols.
There are underground rappers with the odd tidbit of intelligence but most of
the time they're idiots who think that selling drugs is the only way off the street
and care more about cars than their own friends.
Grime is a purer version of rap than hip-hop is, that has just been distorted and
And lose the tone, because I'm belittling you, not insulting you.
"An intellectual (from the adjective meaning "involving thought and reason") is a person who uses their intelligence and analytical thinking, either in a professional capacity, or for personal reasons."
So, Jay-z IS intelligent but apparently all of that flies out the window the minute he steps into a recording booth? Just out of interest, are any grime artists intellectuals?
A) It's not rare at all, there are hundreds of grime tracks which talk about knives, guns, drugs, gangs, violence or whatever else. B) They don't "roll with bodyguards" because the majority of them aren't celebrities, the artists who do get recognition have security provided by their record labels when they attend public events. Do you think all hip-hop artists walk around Queens with a bodyguard? Oh dear.
Nope, there are hundreds of rappers who rhyme about so many other things and plenty of them don't even come from the sort of environment that would require them to sell drugs in the first place. Not sure where the cars over friendship statement stems from but it's obviously another one of your cute little attempts at analysis.
See, this is where you really start to lose the plot. "Grime is a purer version of rap than hip-hop is".. there are so many ways in which this statement is wrong that I don't know where to begin.
Firstly, in your analysis of hip-hop are you talking about the entire history of the genre or just the billboard artists of today? Feel free to explain to me how grime music is "purer" than the hip-hop music created by Public Enemy, Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, De La Soul, BDP/KRS-One or whoever else I could mention in the same vein. Either way your argument is completely flawed because "rap" is a vocal style, you may as well tell us that r&b is a purer version of singing than metal is. If you're trying to say that grime is a purer version of rap MUSIC than hip-hop is your argument completely falls on it's face because rap music and hip-hop music are exactly the same thing (Please, do not let anybody misuse that KRS-One quote because if you're do you're completely misunderstanding it and I'm not going to argue with yet another person about how to interpret quotes correctly).
Quick hip-hop 101 - Hip-hop originated in the Bronx with a DJ spinning old soul & funk LPs and a dude talking and later rapping over the top. The intellectual side of hip-hop didn't evolve until later. Hip-hop in it's essence is a drum beat and somebody rapping over the top.
Now, Grime is a heavily derivative genre, it borrows it's sound from Hip-Hop, UK Garage, Dancehall and other electronic genres. So, given how many different styles it borrows from (Again, none of this is a bad thing, if you hadn't been so quick to throw around blind assumptions you might have known that I've been listening to grime for years) how can it possibly more a more "pure" genre than hip-hop?
The commercialisation of hip-hop has no bearing on how it started or any artist that isn't commercial, again - you're judging a genre that contains an incredibly vast array of artists that pretty much any sweeping statement you could make is going to be inaccurate for a huge amount of musicians.
No, you're attempting to belittle me yet all you're doing is exposing just how clueless you are to an entire genre of music that you're dismissing off hand based on a handful of artists you've seen on MTV. If you're going to object to my "tone" I suggest you stop hijacking threads, making inane sweeping statements and making petty and childish assumptions about what genres of music or artists I listen to.
Intelligence you are born with, intellect is something you use. If you rap about
drugs and clothes you're not an intellectual.
I'm making a distinction between commercial hip-hop and underground hip-hop,
I've already said, you idiot, that there are hip-hop artists that talk about what
rap is about but they're not the commercial ones, with the possible exception of
Nas. Some of the artists you've mentioned are exemplary, but what about the
rest of them?
No commercial hip-hop artist can be called a proper musician and neither can many
underground artist. I've listened to some underground hip-hop and it's all the same ********
about shoot, hustle, et c.
Exactly. Hundreds. What I mean with regards to the car bit is that many of these
idiot rappers in America are products of their nihilistic and capitalistic system whereby
if you have no material possessions that symbolise wealth, you're nobody, which leads
them to commit felonies and then rap about it with pride. These are your idols.
PeeJay getting owned. Who would have thunk it?
As expected, gloss over the questions and points you can't answer without looking like a hypocrite and then throw around more baseless assumptions and petty insults.
So, when Frank Zappa made a song called "Don't Eat The Yellow Snow" or when John Lennon wrote "I Am The Walrus" did that stop them from being seen as being intellectuals in your eyes? I don't understand this idea that you seem to have where the subject matter purely defines the quality of music an artist makes. One of my favourite Beatles songs is about an Octopus' garden, one of my favourite Bowie songs is about an alien, one of my favourite Smiths songs doesn't consist of much more than Morrissey singing "hang the DJ" for about 4 minutes. Also, why does rapping about drugs prevent you from being intellectual, do you think that addressing and talking about very real issues in all of America makes you're stupid or what?
Yeah, nice distinction there. Clearly you're not one of those delusional dullards who thinks to be classfieid as a musician you have to play the guitar or whatever so why is it that no commercial hip-hop artist or many underground artists can be called "proper musicians"? You do know what "musician" means right? Like it or not, they all make music so by definition they're all "proper musicians", Sorry. Plus, The Roots & Andre 3000 are both commercial and play their own instruments - again, so much for your theory.
I like the way you highlight hundreds like it's a small number, can you even name 100 mainstream artists? The capitalist system you're talking about is exactly the same in this country by the way. Again, you have no idea who my idols are and your persistent straw man arguments don't do anything to hide the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. Your idea that rappers who come from poorer backgrounds than you could imagine cannot rap about it without being shitty artists is absolutely ridiculous. If you grow up around violence, gangs, drugs, sex or whatever else what else are you going to talk about? Jay-z raps about more than drugs and clothes by the way, not that it matters. I don't listen to many artists who talk about committing felonies and "then rap about it with pride", talking about it and promoting and and being proud of it are two very different things. Surely you know grime music has come under a lot of fire from the media and government for it's violent lyrics..?
I've listened to hip-hop for longer than I can remember and have listened and studied every sub genre within it as well as it's origins and history, you really did pick the wrong person to try and push your ignorance onto. Going back to a point you made earlier where you said Nas was the only commercial artist to talk about what rap is about: As I already said, hip-hop as a genre started in the Bronx in block parties, it didn't start out by professors of science writing poetry to an old James Brown break. Hip-hop was about enjoying yourself and having fun long before it provided any social commentary or produced any artists like Rakim/KRS-ONE/Chuck D. There isn't a musical subject that defines hip-hop now and there never has been one. Even you will probably know that the first recognised hip-hop single was Rapper's Delight, have you ever looked at the lyrics for that?
The thing that baffles me the most is that whilst you're dismissing hip-hop you're also praising grime - a genre that has hardly any differences than hip-hop at all. You clearly haven't listened to grime for very long if you think artists talking about money, drugs, gangs or violence is rare so I can only assume you're pretty new to the genre, either that or you've only glanced over it much like you've obviously done so with hip-hop and now think you're qualified to analyse it.
I take it you know what hijacking threads is right? Read the title of this thread - "Any Hip Hop Heads Out There". You, by your own admission, don't even like hip-hop so all you're doing in this thread is trolling and trying to convince people you know anything about music. You haven't corrected a single thing I've said thus far and unless you somehow manage to study the entire history of hip-hop overnight and find some mistake in my argument you're not going to.
The level of ignorance from both yourself and others in this thread is equivalent to me going into a metal thread and declaring they're all long haired, spotty freaks and all the music they listen to is about slaying dragons and worshiping the devil.
It strikes me that you're the sort of person that would rather carry on making straw man arguments, ridiculous generalisations and flat out childish insults rather than just saying you don't like the genre, admitting you don't know anywhere near enough about it to judge it and stop trying to win an argument when every single point you've made is untrue.
Just in case you're willing to challenge your outlook, here are just a handful of a huge amount of songs I could provide you with that disprove every generalisation you've made in this thread.
Brings back memories, used to listen to them when I was just getting into hip-hop
Yeah me too. I loved that song a lot growing up.
This one is more apt for the day that's in it: