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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
We took Tevez on loan because there were no funds available to buy at that point, so Tevez was a good option being available on loan.


Let me put it another way, if you were a manager and you had the option to buy Torres or Berba, who would you buy ??????


Torres 24yrs old and cost £26m scored 29 goals in 39 prem games = 1 goal every 1.34 games

OR

Berba 27yrs old and cost £30.75 + fraiser campbell on try before you buy.
scored 28 goals in 78 prem games = 1 goal every 2.78 games







RedForceRising said:
RD says it won't happen, but it's still an interesting scenario.

Torres was my absolute dream signing along with Nani in the summer of 2007.

We got Nani, but Liverpool got Torres while we bought Tevez.

A league title and a CL trophy later and who knows if we would have had the same kind of success with torres in the team.

Things happened the way they did and Liverpool would never sell Torres to Man Utd, so we have to accept that the wheels of fate have already turned.

Would I swap them. Welll yes and no.

In the summer, there was the Huntelaar camp, who didn't want berba because all we needed was a lethal finisher. Berba is not a leathal finisher and yet I'm very impressed with his performances so far.

He is more imaginative than Torres, he can see exaquisite passes and has the ability to put the ball there. He can create chances out of seemingly impossible situations like against West Ham.

Berbatov can keep the ball under pressure and dribble his way out of trouble.


So would I swap Torres for Berbatov. No.

Torres impresses me with his finishing, but Berbatov is inspires me. His touch, ball control and creativy are sublime and can be just as inspiring as Torres or even more more inspiring.

His goals haven't been memorable, but his touches, flicks, ball control and passing have been absolutely sublime.

There are a few things to work on ane top of that list is transferring his goal-scoring from champions league to the EPL.
 

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Salford Lad said:
Fergie said after the Celtic match that he thought Berbatov changed the game, when he came on.:confused:

I watched the game live on TV then re-watched the 2nd half and i couldn't see the Berba impact ?


And your point is?
 

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Totally agree with Jerrakos, the assist definitely count for something.
He's definitely opening up space for others, and I'm pretty sure he'll finish the season with a decent tally.
Also he is enhancing the players of the others, not just with the assists for the goals, but with his general play. I like him for our team!
 

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Berbatov = quality. type of stereotypical tall, strong centre forward that wins 50/50 balls coming to him, excellent passer of the ball, scores offside tap-ins :)
 

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Salford Lad said:
We took Tevez on loan because there were no funds available to buy at that point, so Tevez was a good option being available on loan.


Let me put it another way, if you were a manager and you had the option to buy Torres or Berba, who would you buy ??????


Torres 24yrs old and cost £26m scored 29 goals in 39 prem games = 1 goal every 1.34 games

OR

Berba 27yrs old and cost £30.75 + fraiser campbell on try before you buy.
scored 28 goals in 78 prem games = 1 goal every 2.78 games

Tevez is on loan really??!?! :rolleyes:

I prefer Torres to Berbatov. Berbatov wasn't even my dream signing in the summer with Benzema and Huntelaar leading the way.

Torres was my dream signing in the summer of 2007.
 

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Salford Lad said:
Fergie said after the Celtic match that he thought Berbatov changed the game, when he came on.:confused:

I watched the game live on TV then re-watched the 2nd half and i couldn't see the Berba impact ? he layed off a few simple passes, did a few bits of nice link up play but lost the ball in posession under pressure, gave the ball away with a few poor passes and missed an absolute sitter :confused:

Tevez was less than happy about being substituted and i think if a decent club comes in for him he will be gone, when his loan deal expires!!!
yeah - i was thinking the same thing about berba ...

but i don't think tevez was worried for being substituted, i think he was not satisfied with his performance...i mean he played for 70 minutes, was he thinking that rooney wouldn't come on :confused:


what has the poor guy done to deserve this ? why is he playing him as a lone striker is beyond me ...when he came he was played there and it wasn't working....
 

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manc in oz said:
CROoney said:
i'd swap him alright


Lets be honest, you'd pick Tommy fart flaps instead of Berbatov. :D
lmao ! ...

seriosuly though - i wouldn't swap him for many players...he is a red devil after all damn it...

seriously - i've grown to like him, especially when talking about him with rival fans...
 

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manc in oz said:
CROoney said:
i'd swap him alright


Lets be honest, you'd pick Tommy fart flaps instead of Berbatov. :D
lmao ! ...

seriosuly though - i wouldn't swap him for many players...he is a red devil after all damn it...

seriously - i've grown to like him, especially when talking about him with rival fans...
________________________________________________________________




oh and - how come when talking about nani , no one's using his stats ( assists) for the last season to back up that he's a great player but when talking about berbatov-everyone's using it
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
I thought Tevez played okay and definately didn't deserve to be taken off. He doesn't exactly need a rest !

It looked like he possibly snubbed Fergie as he went to the bench.

He didn't play Tevez as a loan striker he played Giggs up front with him. I love Ryan Giggs and he has some great games in midfield but even at his peak i didn't like him playing as a striker.

Tevez needs to play behind a striker, Oh! but so does Berbatov and Rooney!

do we need a striker ?











CROoney said:
yeah - i was thinking the same thing about berba ...

but i don't think tevez was worried for being substituted, i think he was not satisfied with his performance...i mean he played for 70 minutes, was he thinking that rooney wouldn't come on :confused:


what has the poor guy done to deserve this ? why is he playing him as a lone striker is beyond me ...when he came he was played there and it wasn't working....
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Surely anyone in there right unbiased mind would prefer TORRES !!


Salford Lad said:
We took Tevez on loan because there were no funds available to buy at that point, so Tevez was a good option being available on loan.


Let me put it another way, if you were a manager and you had the option to buy Torres or Berba, who would you buy ??????


Torres 24yrs old and cost £26m scored 29 goals in 39 prem games = 1 goal every 1.34 games

OR

Berba 27yrs old and cost £30.75 + fraiser campbell on try before you buy.
scored 28 goals in 78 prem games = 1 goal every 2.78 games
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Fergie talks out of his bottom on occasions ! and is seeing it through rose tinted spectacles because he has to justify the £30.75m


Tevez was dropped from the side even though he was the form player!
The reason was Fergie had just spent £30.75m plus (relinquished £6m in the bank for Fraiser Campbell from Hull City.) so he has to justify his outlay and Tevez is only on loan.

Would Tevez have been dropped if he cost £30m when we got him and Berba came in on loan.

NO

Berba would have been starting from the bench !!!

conclusion: Fergie = cheque book manager




manc in oz said:
Salford Lad said:
Fergie said after the Celtic match that he thought Berbatov changed the game, when he came on.:confused:

I watched the game live on TV then re-watched the 2nd half and i couldn't see the Berba impact ?


And your point is?
 

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Salford Lad said:
I thought Tevez played okay and definately didn't deserve to be taken off. He doesn't exactly need a rest !

It looked like he possibly snubbed Fergie as he went to the bench.

He didn't play Tevez as a loan striker he played Giggs up front with him. I love Ryan Giggs and he has some great games in midfield but even at his peak i didn't like him playing as a striker.

Tevez needs to play behind a striker, Oh! but so does Berbatov and Rooney!

do we need a striker ?
tevez played ok - his standard performance - running, giving 200 % but his first touch was poor, he looked shaky and he certainly lacks confidence...there were times where he passed by 2-3 players and then gave the ball backwards...

as for giggs playing behind him - i stay to mine that he was a lone striker---- giggs was more in the midfield...never mind what the formation on paper says....
but even if giggs was used as i striker-he was a support striker - tevez would be better if he played with a classic Cf or at least with rooney or berba
 

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With the introduction of berbatov, tevez has seen very less of playing time and the more time he spends on the bench the more frustration builds up. You can see it in him where he is trying too many things on his own, as if tying to prove he is good enough and this effort is increasing every match.

Celtic match was one where he was trying to play a lone strikers role but it was not working out for him.

My worry is if he keeps getting frustrated and does not come to terms with the team selection then it is going to be difficult with him. With current financial market the way it is 30 Million on a striker who is going to spend time on the bench is not looking like a good business, especially if AIG happen to back out at the end of the year.

There are scenarios for him to work but his major pit fall and for the entire team is there are too many flair players and not enough clinical finishers, ronaldo still remains the one who can finish more chances than anyone else. Although goal scoring is should not be our problem but in tight matches like one yesterday you are not going to get many chances and the ones avaliable need to be converted.

Tevez can do that if he disciplines himself and decides to play as the fox in the box player which he did so well last season at times when the team needed those goals. Right now he is trying to prove to SAF that is he should not be dropped but the only way he can, is by scoring regularly.
 

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shanky said:
With the introduction of berbatov, tevez has seen very less of playing time and the more time he spends on the bench the more frustration builds up. You can see it in him where he is trying too many things on his own, as if tying to prove he is good enough and this effort is increasing every match.

Celtic match was one where he was trying to play a lone strikers role but it was not working out for him.

My worry is if he keeps getting frustrated and does not come to terms with the team selection then it is going to be difficult with him. With current financial market the way it is 30 Million on a striker who is going to spend time on the bench is not looking like a good business, especially if AIG happen to back out at the end of the year.

There are scenarios for him to work but his major pit fall and for the entire team is there are too many flair players and not enough clinical finishers, ronaldo still remains the one who can finish more chances than anyone else. Although goal scoring is should not be our problem but in tight matches like one yesterday you are not going to get many chances and the ones avaliable need to be converted.

Tevez can do that if he disciplines himself and decides to play as the fox in the box player which he did so well last season at times when the team needed those goals. Right now he is trying to prove to SAF that is he should not be dropped but the only way he can, is by scoring regularly.

see what heppened ?

that's why i was against berba's arrival...he's no finisher and we already had great players with great build ups, and great flairs...now we've almost ruined our one of the most important players from last season imo....


why fixing when it's not broken ? why did we modify our partnesrhip instead of buying a finisher who coule have given us another OPTION. a plan B...that's what we havent' improved from last season.

in fact selling saha was reducing our options, because he was a natural finsiher , a CF...unfortunately he was injury prone, but at least we could have bought a player who plays his role
 

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Salford Lad said:
Fergie talks out of his bottom on occasions ! and is seeing it through rose tinted spectacles because he has to justify the £30.75m


Tevez was dropped from the side even though he was the form player!
The reason was Fergie had just spent £30.75m plus (relinquished £6m in the bank for Fraiser Campbell from Hull City.) so he has to justify his outlay and Tevez is only on loan.

Would Tevez have been dropped if he cost £30m when we got him and Berba came in on loan.

NO

Berba would have been starting from the bench !!!

conclusion: Fergie = cheque book manager




First of all Berbatov is being played because he add something to the team which SAF thought was necessary. Sir alex decided to buy berbatov for his skills not to ensure that we have a backup on the bench, he would have never bought him if tevez would have been enough. Tevez on his own is a great player one who is capable of winning matches for any team on his own but still sir alex decided to but berbatov and we are seeing the results with his presence.

Checkbook manager is a term you have to associate with everyone in football then as that’s how the clubs run and it is not something which Sir alex does but the entire world revolves around the same philosophy. If you spend big bucks on something then use it to the best of its ability. If you go to a restaurant and order something you do not put preferences on complimentary that comes along.
 

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CROoney said:
see what heppened ?

that's why i was against berba's arrival...he's no finisher and we already had great players with great build ups, and great flairs...now we've almost ruined our one of the most important players from last season imo....


why fixing when it's not broken ? why did we modify our partnesrhip instead of buying a finisher who coule have given us another OPTION. a plan B...that's what we havent' improved from last season.

in fact selling saha was reducing our options, because he was a natural finsiher , a CF...unfortunately he was injury prone, but at least we could have bought a player who plays his role
I agree with what you say about clinical finishing however I do not think we have ruined anything as of now, everyone knows how big a season is and how an injury can put a serious dent in the title run in. having strength in depth is important and the patience was running out with saha, plus you mentioned how well rooney and tevez clicked last season then there is no doubt that he will not work with berbatov as long as he keeps his head strong and looks to do what he does best and that's finishing.

We will need him more once the business end of the season kicks in which is where you would see rotation and the importance of players getting in and out. I have no doubt he will work with rotation if he is ready for it. As of now he is trying too hard.

With berbatov he adds another dimension that of opening up games not that we needed it but yes he adds to the quality aspect of the game which is why he was bought, as I replied earlier he does put in his share of quality into the team. We have definitely improved in certain aspects of our game but overall we have made our selves more vulnerable to counter attacks and loosing possession.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
SHANKY

I agree with the majority of what you have said but:

Why did Fergie drop the form player in Tevez and not drop Rooney ??? Or why did he not ease Berbatov into the team from the bench by bringing him on for Rooney one game and then bring him on for Tevez the next ?? I realise you cant stick £30m on the bench permanently, especially when he's costing us £12m a year because of the miniscule resale value due to his age. Thats why Arsene Wenger loathes to buy BIG, because the price starts picking the team !

Now Tevez has gotten rusty and must be well pist off !! Like you said Tevez is trying too hard now, but it need not of been like that.

Maybe Fergie promised Berbatov he would start from the off and doesn't want him to spit his dummy out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
I didn't see the formation on paper, i just saw Giggs up front with Tevez until he was moved to left wing.

Giggs inevitably gets dragged into midfield because he is not a striker. If you watch the start of the match again you will clearly see Giggs taking a striker spot with Tevez.


CROoney said:
tevez played ok - his standard performance - running, giving 200 % but his first touch was poor, he looked shaky and he certainly lacks confidence...there were times where he passed by 2-3 players and then gave the ball backwards...

as for giggs playing behind him - i stay to mine that he was a lone striker---- giggs was more in the midfield...never mind what the formation on paper says....
but even if giggs was used as i striker-he was a support striker - tevez would be better if he played with a classic Cf or at least with rooney or berba
 
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