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Are you positive or negative about the appointment?


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I do blame Moyes for the lack of attack, I think it is a direct result of his conservative approach, all our attacking stats are down, and something TC said the other day, interested me. In his post match interview he stated that " he had free rein to get forward" that means he did not in previous games, and that comes from Moyes.
I hope Gary Neville is right when he stated " Moyes will not change United, United will change him"
How does Tom Cleverly saying he had a free reign to get forward mean he didn't in the last game?

All it means is, he had a free reign to get forward in the Aston Villa game. It doesn't confirm whether or not he had it previously. You're just assuming because you want to blame Moyes. I'm fall finding the faults with Moyes if they are their to be found but you're just claiming something that isn't true to support your argument.

Also having a license to get forward is not solely down to your manager. If you have ever played with another centre mid you would understand it goes down to multiple factors. Opposition, centre midfielders position, full backs going forward, strikers dropping off into the space and so on. It's ridiculous to claim Moyes can say one thing and Cleverly is completely restricted, why would Moyes even do that to himself?

Moyes has brought some promising things to Man United and some not so promising things, was to be expected really. We should be objective. Not everyone has to be a Moyes love or hater immediately. We should continue to support his promising moments and hope he proves us wrong about his naivety in some cases.
 

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What you guys failed to notice, and which was th difference between Villa and the rest of our Matches was that Rooney dropped a few yards deeper and the fluency of our build up and attacking play improved considerably . Well that and some courage from Cleverley ... Its not the attack or the defence,its the midfield which is failing to supply the offensive quartet with balls and doing a horrible job of shielding the defence . Look at Newcastle's goal not a single midfield player was close to Cabaye and that ensured that our defence was easy to stretch .
Get that midfield functioning and we have enough depth and class in other positions to really kick on . Whether that midfield is fixable in January is highly debatable but I also know that the summer after the World Cup is also not a good time to do significant business because players will be overpriced and more often than not players are able to perform several notches above their true level because of the occasion . In this context there will be appropriate time to do business for the next eighteen months ! But then you remember that Nemanja Vidic, Patrice Evra, Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge were January pick ups .
 

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shipcanal
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What you guys failed to notice, and which was th difference between Villa and the rest of our Matches was that Rooney dropped a few yards deeper and the fluency of our build up and attacking play improved considerably . Well that and some courage from Cleverley ... Its not the attack or the defence,its the midfield which is failing to supply the offensive quartet with balls and doing a horrible job of shielding the defence . Look at Newcastle's goal not a single midfield player was close to Cabaye and that ensured that our defence was easy to stretch .
Get that midfield functioning and we have enough depth and class in other positions to really kick on . Whether that midfield is fixable in January is highly debatable but I also know that the summer after the World Cup is also not a good time to do significant business because players will be overpriced and more often than not players are able to perform several notches above their true level because of the occasion . In this context there will be appropriate time to do business for the next eighteen months ! But then you remember that Nemanja Vidic, Patrice Evra, Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge were January pick ups .
And to what extent would be risk missing out on signings if we waited till summer for those we could sign now ? Chelsea, a reinvigorated Liverpool, City, Arsenal, without mentioning foreign clubs, might all be in for the same players. Perhaps not everyone will want to move from guaranteed 1st team football to squad rotation football in a new club & league in January & a WC year, but maybe we should go all out for those that are viable.
 

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And to what extent would be risk missing out on signings if we waited till summer for those we could sign now ? Chelsea,a reinvigorated Liverpool, City,Arsenal, without mentioning foreign clubs, might all be in for the same players. Perhaps not everyone will want to move from guaranteed 1st team football to squad rotation football in a new club & league, but maybe we should go all out for those that are viable.
The results of failing to solve our cm issues are grave because it is this issue which will impact heavily on whether the transition from SAF to David Moyes is a success . The emergence of Cleverley and the likely return of Darrren Fletcher to first team reckoning mean that we can get away with signing one midfield player . The thing is we can not just look at the top tier clubs for the right player as you rightly pointed out that who would want to leave a club where they are established for the great unknown that is Manchester United right now ? Certainly not someone with a realistic chance of going to the World Cup which rules out the likes of Koke,Gundogun,Strootman and Guarin unless we make a move out of sync with our character and offer silly money in transfer fees and wages .
In that regard we need to look lower than that tier for a signing along the lines of Vidic/Evra/Chicharito, the type that is operating at a level where a move to United is too good an opportunity to pass but with the capacity to have an immediate impact on the first team . That is a tough ask but then that is what managing Manchester United is all about .
 

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shipcanal
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The results of failing to solve our cm issues are grave because it is this issue which will impact heavily on whether the transition from SAF to David Moyes is a success . The emergence of Cleverley and the likely return of Darrren Fletcher to first team reckoning mean that we can get away with signing one midfield player . The thing is we can not just look at the top tier clubs for the right player as you rightly pointed out that who would want to leave a club where they are established for the great unknown that is Manchester United right now ? Certainly not someone with a realistic chance of going to the World Cup which rules out the likes of Koke,Gundogun,Strootman and Guarin unless we make a move out of sync with our character and offer silly money in transfer fees and wages .
In that regard we need to look lower than that tier for a signing along the lines of Vidic/Evra/Chicharito, the type that is operating at a level where a move to United is too good an opportunity to pass but with the capacity to have an immediate impact on the first team . That is a tough ask but then that is what managing Manchester United is all about .
Oops
 

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shipcanal
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I agree with that,but I'm not sure who would fit the "lower tier but immediate impact" bill, especially if we sell a couple,which seems likely.
 

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I agree with that,but I'm not sure who would fit the "lower tier but immediate impact" bill, especially if we sell a couple,which seems likely.
Naming a plethora of them is the easy part, accurately predicting their possible ceiling and identifying the winner within them are the hardest but most useful parts. Its tricky because we already have too many average to shit players and the last thing we'd need is to add to that particular segment of the squad . However as I pointed out if not this January then when because we all know that no time is the most appropriate one to swallow the bitter pill .
 

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How does Tom Cleverly saying he had a free reign to get forward mean he didn't in the last game?

All it means is, he had a free reign to get forward in the Aston Villa game. It doesn't confirm whether or not he had it previously. You're just assuming because you want to blame Moyes. I'm fall finding the faults with Moyes if they are their to be found but you're just claiming something that isn't true to support your argument.

Also having a license to get forward is not solely down to your manager. If you have ever played with another centre mid you would understand it goes down to multiple factors. Opposition, centre midfielders position, full backs going forward, strikers dropping off into the space and so on. It's ridiculous to claim Moyes can say one thing and Cleverly is completely restricted, why would Moyes even do that to himself?

Moyes has brought some promising things to Man United and some not so promising things, was to be expected really. We should be objective. Not everyone has to be a Moyes love or hater immediately. We should continue to support his promising moments and hope he proves us wrong about his naivety in some cases.
I do blame Moyes for United's lack of attacking impetus, and the numbers and smarter football people than I have backed that up, who else should I blame? Based on my observation of United's play we have been very negative at times, for the first time in quite some time we had an attacking impetus, I made that assessment on TC getting forward and Adnan's runs along with Rafael's runs and movement with Valencia, Evra was AWOL so I won't mention him.

As for Moyes, I have made this point many many times, he was one of my choices to replace SAF, not my first tbh, and while it's very very early days, there are things that I don't like about the way United are playing. I recognize that SA left the cupboard bare, so United's slow start cannot be blamed entirely on Moyes. However, we dropped points in 3 games in which we were leading, in ALL! of those games the analysis of those games showed, that in the last half hour, United had no attacking impetus, who should I blame for that, and that is not my information or guesswork.

BTW I have played the game at a decent level, was a midfield player, have coached at a reasonably high level, so I think I can safely say that I can comment on the game without making a fool of myself. Of course I am not in the dressing room or privy to what Moyes has told his players, it's only my opinion based on what and how TC made those remarks.

I would like nothing more than for Moyes to be successful at United, I don't hate the man or want him to fail, I have changed my opinion of him. I do hope that Gary Neville was correct when he said " Moyes will not change United, United will change Moyes". I have seen nothing that Moyes has changed at United so far, nothing positive, other than getting Rooney playing well again which is in itself an accomplishment.

The last thing I will say is that this is an open forum for people to post their feelings and opinions, their is no one on this site who has any more knowledge or information about the club than the next person, most of our opinions are based on our interpretation of what is happening. I am no different than anyone else, my opinions, feelings, are no more important than anyone else's and unlike JVB I do not purport to be anything more than how I have just described myself.
 

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I do blame Moyes for United's lack of attacking impetus, and the numbers and smarter football people than I have backed that up, who else should I blame? Based on my observation of United's play we have been very negative at times, for the first time in quite some time we had an attacking impetus, I made that assessment on TC getting forward and Adnan's runs along with Rafael's runs and movement with Valencia, Evra was AWOL so I won't mention him.

As for Moyes, I have made this point many many times, he was one of my choices to replace SAF, not my first tbh, and while it's very very early days, there are things that I don't like about the way United are playing. I recognize that SA left the cupboard bare, so United's slow start cannot be blamed entirely on Moyes. However, we dropped points in 3 games in which we were leading, in ALL! of those games the analysis of those games showed, that in the last half hour, United had no attacking impetus, who should I blame for that, and that is not my information or guesswork.

BTW I have played the game at a decent level, was a midfield player, have coached at a reasonably high level, so I think I can safely say that I can comment on the game without making a fool of myself. Of course I am not in the dressing room or privy to what Moyes has told his players, it's only my opinion based on what and how TC made those remarks.

I would like nothing more than for Moyes to be successful at United, I don't hate the man or want him to fail, I have changed my opinion of him. I do hope that Gary Neville was correct when he said " Moyes will not change United, United will change Moyes". I have seen nothing that Moyes has changed at United so far, nothing positive, other than getting Rooney playing well again which is in itself an accomplishment.

The last thing I will say is that this is an open forum for people to post their feelings and opinions, their is no one on this site who has any more knowledge or information about the club than the next person, most of our opinions are based on our interpretation of what is happening. I am no different than anyone else, my opinions, feelings, are no more important than anyone else's and unlike JVB I do not purport to be anything more than how I have just described myself.
Fair enough if you blame Moyes for United's lack of impetus, on occasions I would agree. I was just stating the quote you quoted from Tom Cleverly doesn't prove whether or he was allowed to go forward.

With regards to the rest of your comments I agree on a certain level or another. It's good to see that you have your own points too and good to see you can acknowledge others points without having a meltdown like some. Not meaning to sound as if I'm on my high horse here or anything, like you said, my opinions are no more valid than others. Just genuinely saying, it's refreshing to see.
 

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Fair enough if you blame Moyes for United's lack of impetus, on occasions I would agree. I was just stating the quote you quoted from Tom Cleverly doesn't prove whether or he was allowed to go forward.

With regards to the rest of your comments I agree on a certain level or another. It's good to see that you have your own points too and good to see you can acknowledge others points without having a meltdown like some. Not meaning to sound as if I'm on my high horse here or anything, like you said, my opinions are no more valid than others. Just genuinely saying, it's refreshing to see.
No worries, I like having a debate with most people on here, I find most to be respectful of others opinions which I try to be, as I said, in no way shape or form do I think my opinions are more correct than others, a lot can be misinterpreted in the written word. I personally try and keep the attitude that it's just a few people talking football at a pub.
Some on here are here for different reasons, and when challenged usually revert to personal attack or slagging, I try not get involved in that. I freely admit form time to time I might throw something out there to see if it gets a rise out of someone, but I generally try and keep it to football matters. Thanks for your reply and understanding, I'm really not on here to offend anyone.
Cheers!
 
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