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Discussion Starter #1
While banter and good fun are ok, please refrain from interrupting the flow of the debate once it's gotten started.

SPECIAL NOTE:
Technically, Keano! did not get his information in on time and forefit the debate. However, K4T agreed to a debate at his own choice (rather than taking the freebie). Kudos for being sporting mate. May the best debate win :)

This is a first round contest.

The Topic: Should school uniforms be required?
Keano4taoiseach says they should be, while Keano! feels they should not.

K4T will start the debate.

Both people will have 3 days to prepare their debate, with K4T making his opening statements on or before Saturday. Keano! will then have 24 hours to post his opening. K4T will make his rebuttal against Keano!'s opening within 2 days time. Keano!'s rebuttal to K4T will come, again, within 24 hours. Closing remarks will be started by K4T within the next 24 hours, followed by Keano!'s no later than another 24 hours.

Judges will then give their winner within the next 2 days time
 

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Why School Uniforms Should Be Required
By
K4t​

I hope you can all see that I am completely unbiased on this topic as I myself am not only a student, but a student who in fact hates wearing his school uniform! However, I agree totally with what they represent.

The argument for school uniforms outweighs that against them significantly. Numerous studies have shown that school uniforms:

- Increase test scores

- Reduce drug abuse

- Increase attendance

- Reduce violence

However, many other studies have rejected these claims by conducting surveys which produce results contrary to the above.

No, the main reason I support the idea of school uniforms is because I am a compassionate human being who believes that we are all equal and that everybody is entitled to be treated as equals. This belief applies especially in our schools, among our children, the youngest and most vulnerable in our society.

The idea of not having school uniforms is wrong in my humble opinion for the following reasons;

- Financially poorer students would suffer. Poorer students would not be able to keep up with the latest fasion trends or afford the latest 'Football shirts' and this would in turn create a 'fashion war', with not only the children suffering, but also the parents who would be forking out the money.

- Bullying. Children with rich parents and middle class kids to a certain extent would have little problem in wearing nice, fashionable clothing to school everyday. But what about the poorer children in our society, those most vulnerable, who perhaps have troubles at home and have trouble affording the basic living requirements. It is with certainty when I say, that students who cannot afford the latest labels or 'football shirts' would be jeered and mocked at the very least, and in some cases bullied. This is not what we want in our schools.

- Equal right to learning denied. Many studies have proven that people tend to help an attractive person more than they would help an ugly person. This of course is morally wrong, but it is what happens. Now imagine two students sitting at a desk in a school side by side. One student is dressed in smart, fashionable clothing. The other is wearing a second hand pair of trousers and a ripped top. Who is the teacher going to devote more attention to?
 

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Why Schools Should Abolish School Uniforms
By
Keano!​


Being a student in a vibrant school I see the uniforms so I've got a good load of knowledge on the subject as does my opposition here in K4T.


I think schools should take a stance and remove the school uniform for reasons which include the following.

  • Cost
  • Repetivness
  • Bullying
  • Labour
Cost
Cost is a huge factor in the uniform world to me and I know people who simply can't afford two jumpers or two pair of trousers etc... These days, on average I'd say in secondary schools, a school jumper costs roughly 40-60 pounds or euro. That's a fair whack itself but then you add up, a jumper, a pair of trousers, 2/3 shirts, a tie, pair of shoes and the school jacket and you could easily end up spending over 200 pounds or euro. So its a costly investment and these will be worn every day of every school week so wear and tear will occur and this leads to, a ripped jacket, frayed jumper, zip/clip on trousers breaking, shoes worn down. These all need repairing or replacement so why not fork out more money when perfectly good clothes that you'd wear on a daily basis out with friends or whatever, could be worn in. Its extra baggage that families could well do without. Slightly off topic, but that along with your standard fees and if there's two kids in the school, families feel massive hits in the pocket.

Repetivness
Every school day, I have to pull on the same trousers, same jumper, same shirt, same tie, same shoes. Only difference being that they have been freshened up in the wash. I understand that people should present themselves well whilst in class and in the company of teachers, but the same thing every day just bores the heck out of me to be honest. Its like labeling everyone in the school with the same brush. Everyone dressed n the same style of clothing, looking out into the yard sees a mass of grey and the odd dash of white from the rebellious student who feels they will avoid being caught in his bard new white Nike's or whatever. Another factor is the whole expression issue. How are students supposed to express themselves if they are being told what to wear? Loads of people have different styles, chavs, goths, rockers, academic and sporty people will all wear different styles of clothing outside of school, so why brand everyone the same within school grounds and stopping them from showing who they really are? Its ridiculous! As for people laughing at others because of what they wear, its just petty and no excuse for it really. It does happen, granted but its normally the people who are cowardly and scared that feel they have to degrade others because of what they are wearing. Its people who express themselves that have the courage and self-esteem to wear what they want.

Bullying
As you all know, every school has a different style of uniform although the overall style is more or less the same, yes? NO. Some schools have blazers. These students receive abuse from others because they are wearing something different and that means that because the school is forcing a person to wear a particular type of clothing, they are suffering outside of the school because of it. Once your seen in that jumper and that jacket you are known to all that you come from that school leaving a bit of privacy for some open to all. An example of this is actually located close to me. Two girl schools located fairly close to each other have two completely different uniforms, yet if either are seen in the street together one is heckled because of the style and colour. The other isn't. 99% of the time both are good looking girls and should you meet them outside of their school day then you;d have no reason to laugh. Its an immaturuty within our society which I only wish would finish. In some schools, mine inculded, the top two years as it were, 5th and 6th year have a different uniform to the rest of the school, almost degrading the rest of us because of the different colours. Black jumper and trousers with a crisp white shirt to the boring grey all over. When new first years come in, in September, they are nervous and understandably so, but how much more nervous would they feel when a bloke a good lot taller strolls by in a neater looking smarter uniform? Degraded? Left out?

Labour
Parents on here will know what I mean here now. Your son/daughter has come home from school, and its been a rainy day or something like that but the jumper has to be washed or the trousers. You've only got one pair and they're needed the next day. All of a sudden, pressure is lumped on the parent/s to have the item of clothing washed, dryed and ironed for their son/daughter the next day! We're only human. The sewing element also comes in here along with altering and things like that. Time is wasted on these issues and time which I'm sure could be used more productively, don't you think so?




Thanks for reading my argument but until schools wake up and realise that the uniform is a mighty hindrance to the people that wear them then things will never change. Just look back years ago, not too long ago, when a uniform was unheard of! Any violence and trouble and stress compared the the things nowadays? Thought so........
 

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Keano! said:
Why Schools Should Abolish School Uniforms



Keano! said:
CENTER]Cost
Keano! said:
is a huge factor in the uniform world to me and I know people who simply can't afford two jumpers or two pair of trousers etc... These days, on average I'd say in secondary schools, a school jumper costs roughly 40-60 pounds or euro.
And paying for new designer brands and new football shirts does not cost a lot?. You might say the parents should'nt pay for these clothes, but what about when their children come home complaining that their best friends have the newest clothes and are making fun of them? Your 'Cost' argument has no substance whatsoever, given that parents would be expected to buy new 'football shirts' and new clothes every so often so their child wouldn't feel like an outcast to the more wealthy children.

Keano! said:
Repetivness
Every school day, I have to pull on the same trousers, same jumper, same shirt, same tie, same shoes. Only difference being that they have been freshened up in the wash. I understand that people should present themselves well whilst in class and in the company of teachers, but the same thing every day just bores the heck out of me to be honest. Its like labeling everyone in the school with the same brush. Everyone dressed n the same style of clothing, looking out into the yard sees a mass of grey and the odd dash of white from the rebellious student who feels they will avoid being caught in his bard new white Nike's or whatever. Another factor is the whole expression issue. How are students supposed to express themselves if they are being told what to wear? Loads of people have different styles, chavs, goths, rockers, academic and sporty people will all wear different styles of clothing outside of school, so why brand everyone the same within school grounds and stopping them from showing who they really are? Its ridiculous! As for people laughing at others because of what they wear, its just petty and no excuse for it really. It does happen, granted but its normally the people who are cowardly and scared that feel they have to degrade others because of what they are wearing. Its people who express themselves that have the courage and self-esteem to wear what they want.
And what about when class trips arise. The risk of students getting lost is greatly increased if they are not wearing uniforms. This causes huge health and safety problems and puts teachers under unnecessary pressure.

Keano! said:
Bullying
As you all know, every school has a different style of uniform although the overall style is more or less the same, yes? NO. Some schools have blazers. These students receive abuse from others because they are wearing something different and that means that because the school is forcing a person to wear a particular type of clothing, they are suffering outside of the school because of it. Once your seen in that jumper and that jacket you are known to all that you come from that school leaving a bit of privacy for some open to all. An example of this is actually located close to me. Two girl schools located fairly close to each other have two completely different uniforms, yet if either are seen in the street together one is heckled because of the style and colour. The other isn't. 99% of the time both are good looking girls and should you meet them outside of their school day then you;d have no reason to laugh. Its an immaturuty within our society which I only wish would finish. In some schools, mine inculded, the top two years as it were, 5th and 6th year have a different uniform to the rest of the school, almost degrading the rest of us because of the different colours. Black jumper and trousers with a crisp white shirt to the boring grey all over. When new first years come in, in September, they are nervous and understandably so, but how much more nervous would they feel when a bloke a good lot taller strolls by in a neater looking smarter uniform? Degraded? Left out?
That is true also, but my point is that 'Students should not be bullied IN SCHOOL for what they are or are not wearing'

Keano! said:
Labour
Parents on here will know what I mean here now. Your son/daughter has come home from school, and its been a rainy day or something like that but the jumper has to be washed or the trousers. You've only got one pair and they're needed the next day. All of a sudden, pressure is lumped on the parent/s to have the item of clothing washed, dryed and ironed for their son/daughter the next day! We're only human. The sewing element also comes in here along with altering and things like that. Time is wasted on these issues and time which I'm sure could be used more productively, don't you think so?
........
Ridiculous point. You talk about how uniforms cost too much, yet the above contradicts that point. Are you suggesting that parents can afford stocks of normal clothes but not a few uniforms? Write a note if the uniforms are unwearable.
.........
 

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40 to 60 quid for a jumper:eek: has paddyland yet to discover asda and primark ?

3 skirts 3 blouses 3 sweaters less than 20 sheets !!!! who cares if some 9 year old in a sweat shops churning them out for a bowl of gruel a day . uniforms as cheap as chips
 

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Keano4taoiseach said:
Keano! said:
Why Schools Should Abolish School Uniforms




And paying for new designer brands and new football shirts does not cost a lot?. You might say the parents should'nt pay for these clothes, but what about when their children come home complaining that their best friends have the newest clothes and are making fun of them? Your 'Cost' argument has no substance whatsoever, given that parents would be expected to buy new 'football shirts' and new clothes every so often so their child wouldn't feel like an outcast to the more wealthy children.


.........​



No, I'm not, but I am saying that parents shouldn't have to fork out for clothes
that aren't actually required. Whether the child wants designer clothes and what
not, Morales should be given from a young age that;

1, You can't always get what you want
2. You want it, you buy it, presuming they are of a mature enough age....14 and on perhaps.


As for students getting lost, young kids should be accompanied by an adult at all
times whilst on such trips and when they are older, they will have phones with
them , contact is easy and they would or should be deployed in groups.


Labour is a factor as some parents write a note, yet the note is questioned
considerably in school making the child feel bad and embarrassed. If there were no
uniforms, and a shirt of pair of jeans were dirtied on a Monday then another pair
could be worn the next day so the parents have time to clean the other pair. They
don't have to be top brand stuff either. I got myself 2 pair of jeans, 2 tops and a
crew neck shirt for under €50 today so if that's not a bargain compared to school
uniform costs, then I don't know what is TBH.

Bottom line is that uniforms really aren't necessary nor liked by students...​
 

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Keano! said:
No, I'm not, but I am saying that parents shouldn't have to fork out for clothes
that aren't actually required.


Labour is a factor as some parents write a note, yet the note is questioned
considerably in school making the child feel bad and embarrassed
. I

Bottom line is that uniforms really aren't necessary nor liked by students...
If they don't, their children could end up being bullied/mocked by other classmates or left out of groups. It's true.

Another ridiculous statement. 'Tired and embarassed'??? Come on!!!!

They are necessary. They ensure order, they give students a something to be proud of. When a student is wearing his/her's school uniform, they are a representation of their school.

Closing. (I'll keep this snappy!)

In a world dominated by wealth and greed, where the divide between the rich and poor is increasing every day, it is imperative that we keep this away from our schools and our children. Let the richest child in the class and the poorest wear the same clothes. Give the poorest child in the class the same education as the richest. This is what uniforms really mean to me, and why I feel they should be necessary in our schools.

I thank you.

K4t. :)
 

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Keano4taoiseach said:
If they don't, their children could end up being bullied/mocked by other classmates or left out of groups. It's true.

Another ridiculous statement. 'Tired and embarassed'??? Come on!!!!

They are necessary. They ensure order, they give students a something to be proud of. When a student is wearing his/her's school uniform, they are a representation of their school.

Closing. (I'll keep this snappy!)

In a world dominated by wealth and greed, where the divide between the rich and poor is increasing every day, it is imperative that we keep this away from our schools and our children. Let the richest child in the class and the poorest wear the same clothes. Give the poorest child in the class the same education as the richest. This is what uniforms really mean to me, and why I feel they should be necessary in our schools.

I thank you.

K4t. :)
bravo mate
 

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In Closing

Uniforms label everyone within the school with the one tag which hampers everyones individual rights to express themselves in a pleasent way. They dull the classrooms and are normally always the exact same style but for coloring, including crazy costs.
 
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