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Last night's performance against Boro should give Sir Alex Ferguson enough encouragement to start playing his young starlets ahead of Man Utd's old guard.

Now, I'm not saying that players like Giggsy, Scholesy, Gazza and Edwin no longer have anything to offer, but after several months of witnessing similar patterns, I am pretty convinced that it is time for change.

Out with the old; in with the new, as they say.

I'm fully aware that Paul Scholes scored the winner against Barcelona that sent us through to the final and that there were some games last season that he managed to boss, but there were also other matches where I found him to be struggling with the pace and lacking the legs to have an effect on the game.

This in contrast to Anderson, who was (dare I say it) a revelation last season and impressed me last night yet again.

WHEN fit, he has the legs, energy and ball control to make a difference in a match.

Ryan Giggs may have scored an exquisite goal and made one by providing the corner, which Ronaldo headed in, but it is a rare occurrence these days when Ryan makes effective contributions.

He struggled for most parts of last season and although he did score the second goal against Wigan, did not make an impact in most of the games he played in last season.

It was horrible to hear what some of the fans were saying on MUTV and it broke my heart to have one of my heroes slated like that, which is why I was so pleased that he ended last season in glory, but also why I was so surprised that he didn't bow out on top.

I'm not going to say much about Edwin van der Sar, because most of the regulars on the site will know how I feel about him, but suffice it to say, his form has been decreasing since last season and he is starting to make the kind of errors that make his team mates nervous.

I'm not a fan of Tomasz Kuszczak, but on current form I'd prefer him to VDS in goal.

Of the 4 older players, Gary will perhaps be able to make the most positive impacts on games. He might not have had the best of games against Villarreal, but I thought he did well against Chelsea and was rarely second best in situations throughout the game.


And then there was last night.


I think Gareth Southgate fielded his strongest possible side and yet we managed to beat a decent Premiership team with 4 debutants in the starting line-up and 2 more than came on as subs – very encouraging in deed.

What I witnessed were young players with desire, energetic legs, good ball control and what I would call “spritely†and “nimble†movement.

So assured were the performances of Rodrigo Posssebon, Rafael da Silva, Danny Wellbeck and Darren Gibson that it might also give Fergie encouragement to phase out fringe players like Darren Fletcher and John O'Shea.

I know that the latter two have their fans on this site and that it is still very early days for the young players I have mentioned, but I'm just so encouraged by their ability that I really do want them to start ahead of the old guard.

They need games to gain confidence, adjust to their team mates and hone their skill, so they should get it. Their talents deserve it.

Even though it was just Boro, it was still a similar Boro side that had us struggling for a draw towards the end of last season, yet Possebon and Anderson were (in my eyes) bossing the middle of the pitch.

I can't say a lot about Ben Amos based on last night's match as he was rarely tested, but he can at least catch a ball, which Edwin has been struggling to do recently. He'll probably feel he could have done better for the goal we conceded though.

So that's my rather long opinion that last night should and hopefully will signal the changing of the guard and that I welcome it whole-heartedly.

The oldies will still be able to make contributions, but I think Fergie will be encouraged enough to play the younger players in the big matches, because quite honestly, the old guard has struggled to make an impact in those matches and based on recent matches, I'll take the youthful legs, ability and desire over the so-called experience, which unfortunately hasn't helped much.


(Bring on the critics….)
 

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a compellin g arument, i agree with most of it, but would prefer ben foster in goal with kusczak on the bench, hes a good keeper but not quite good enough to be 1st choice,

possebon looks a great player and definitly one for the future
 

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TBH it was another dire performance! I wouldn't even begin to think things are on the up.Yes we beat Boro 3-1 but the scoreline flatters us.You say can the youngsters start come above the veterans but based on last nights team sheet.....no.Vidic,BrownGiggs,Nani,Anderson,Tevez,Ronaldo & O'shea all played a big part in lasts nights unconvincing victory.What worries me is everything we do breaks down right outside the box.No-one crosses,no one makes runs,no-one challenges,we make all the tasty passing in the midfield then hit a wall when we get to the box.For teams like Arsenal etc,their play only begins to peak near the box and they seem to be doing ok! We haven't got that killer cross or deadly pass at the moment.Im sure it will come,but all this rotation and chopping around seems to come to no avail!I wouldnt say im worried,just a tad concerned about where it is Fergie is pointing the team to.Now i know Arsenal played a championship side,but even so,they had a full team of 'kids' bar Song/Bendtner and still managed a rout,which is what we needed.I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on these young chaps so soon,they have years ahead lets not get giddy.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
red lady said:
Interesting points there RFR. great post.:cool:
- Thank you and glad you enjoyed the read.

blondedevil said:
Couldnt be bothered to read the whole thing. But I am sure I would agree :)

- I shall bother to give you the abridged version, which you should have the time for:
:)

Out with the old; in with the new, as they say.

I think Gareth Southgate fielded his strongest possible side and yet we managed to beat a decent Premiership team with 4 debutants in the starting line-up and 2 more than came on as subs – very encouraging in deed.

What I witnessed were young players with desire, energetic legs, good ball control and what I would call “spritely†and “nimble†movement.

So assured were the performances of Rodrigo Posssebon, Rafael da Silva, Danny Wellbeck and Darren Gibson that it might also give Fergie encouragement to phase out fringe players like Darren Fletcher and John O'Shea.
 

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Rooneys_Temper said:
TBH it was another dire performance! I wouldn't even begin to think things are on the up.Yes we beat Boro 3-1 but the scoreline flatters us.You say can the youngsters start come above the veterans but based on last nights team sheet.....no.Vidic,BrownGiggs,Nani,Anderson,Tevez,Ronaldo & O'shea all played a big part in lasts nights unconvincing victory.What worries me is everything we do breaks down right outside the box.No-one crosses,no one makes runs,no-one challenges,we make all the tasty passing in the midfield then hit a wall when we get to the box.For teams like Arsenal etc,their play only begins to peak near the box and they seem to be doing ok! We haven't got that killer cross or deadly pass at the moment.Im sure it will come,but all this rotation and chopping around seems to come to no avail!I wouldnt say im worried,just a tad concerned about where it is Fergie is pointing the team to.Now i know Arsenal played a championship side,but even so,they had a full team of 'kids' bar Song/Bendtner and still managed a rout,which is what we needed.I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on these young chaps so soon,they have years ahead lets not get giddy.

A couple of good points, but I don't think it was a dire performance.

West Ham and Bolton away last season were dire performances.

You;re right that we're not playing super silky samba football, but the young players did do well last night.

Yes the Arse kids tore up Sheffield, but then there is something that their coaches are doing better than our's are. I don't think winning 6-0 is necessarily a reflection of individual skill, but of the collective performance.

Maybe we can snatch a couple of their coaches :)

But seeing as I can only comment on what I can see, I will say that the kids are, in fact, not years away from being ready. They are ready or close to it now and the faster Fergie throws them into the deep end the more confidence they'll have in the big games. I'll say this - if Possebon and Gibson get first team action, they will be better contributors than Fletcher.

BTW Nani and Anderson are not veterans by any stretch of the imagination. In fact I was stating that Anderson should start before Scholes.

You;re right that our attacks have been breaking down outside the box, but that's not neceassarily the fault of the youngsters, because Giggs and Scholes have been making errand judgements in those areas too.
 

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Well said the one who really impress yesterday was Rafael. We should start playing him more. He has a great future with United.
 

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RedForceRising said:
BTW Nani and Anderson are not veterans by any stretch of the imagination. In fact I was stating that Anderson should start before Scholes.
I guess what i meant was that,last nights team was mostly first team regulars,i used the term veteran wrongly!! I do apologise lol,by no means is Nani or Ando a veteran,they are barley out of nappies!They are alot more experienced than some of the lads last night,which i guess is the point i was trying to make

You;re right that our attacks have been breaking down outside the box, but that's not neceassarily the fault of the youngsters, because Giggs and Scholes have been making errand judgements in those areas too.
Again,i was just making a general point of the game in general.The team as a whole need to be showing these youngsters the United flair and last night was a very shady show!Alot of prospect but for me still too early,give them the freedom of the FA/Carling cup and see what they can achieve!Every credit to there desire to play though,can't knock that at all
 

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Oh gosh! What tosh! RFR, this must easily be your worst thread ever!!!

Relax... Just kidding of course. :D :p ;)

Great timely thread for the inevitable to come either this season or next; latest.:)

For honest to goodness, I don't see how some of our old guards can still go on beyond the next season or play as many games as they wish they can. Sad but that is how things have been and always will be.....

I am certainly a protagonist for developing our youngsters and helping them in every possible manner to break through and eventually take over as the spine of the first team or as a core group. Not only do they have a better sense of belonging. identitiy and loyalty for having done a major part of their footballing education here (except for some oddballs once in a while like you know who), their raw talents and energy, their irrepressible enthusiasm and exuberance, and their unpredictability to opponents are like a breath of fresh air. The potential and promise waiting to be realised and fullfilled make it even more intoxicating for fans alike.

The key is, of course, who and how to phase them in most optimally. That we can and have to entrust it to Fergie, even though I am sure there were a lot of moans and groans when some of our previous promising youngsters left much to our chagrin. And how we wished some could have stayed to break through the ranks.

In any case, these are exciting times indeed. It has been more than a decade since another core group of youngsters, the famous Fergie's Fledgings, broke through to give us many fond memories and to disprove Hansen's infamous "you can't win with kids" boo-boo. And this could well be the next, with so many exciting youngsters raring to go but currently either out on loan for first team action or being held back by a leash in our own backyard.

Can't wait to see them being unleashed one by one to terrorise our opponents; optimally.
 

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Great post mate...and as ritesh said Rafael should start more matches and after seeing his performance of yesterday surely he be will starting more now...
 

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like fergie always says, we need to get the balance right, a balanced team mixed with youth and experienced.

i believe the youngsters can do well if they are given the chance, but they still need the old heads on the pitch to guide, especially when things arent going their way. they were in there before and done it before, and we cant ignore that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
versa said:
Oh gosh! What tosh! RFR, this must easily be your worst thread ever!!!

- OK, I fully deserved it. :)

Relax... Just kidding of course.

Great timely thread for the inevitable to come either this season or next; latest.:)

For honest to goodness, I don't see how some of our old guards can still go on beyond the next season or play as many games as they wish they can. Sad but that is how things have been and always will be.....

- I will be sad for Giggs if he doesn't retire this season. I've grown up watching him and it would absolutely kill me, if he didn't retire soon.

It's like watching Axl Rose trying to make a comeback. Very painful


... Not only do they have a better sense of belonging. identitiy and loyalty for having done a major part of their footballing education here (except for some oddballs once in a while like you know who), their raw talents and energy, their irrepressible enthusiasm and exuberance, and their unpredictability to opponents are like a breath of fresh air. The potential and promise waiting to be realised and fullfilled make it even more intoxicating for fans alike.

- And what a breath of fresh air.
BTW, in case you didn't wake up at 3am in the morning to watch the match, I could pass you a copy on DVD, cos I recorded it. If you're up for meeting up :eek:


The key is, of course, who and how to phase them in most optimally. That we can and have to entrust it to Fergie, even though I am sure there were a lot of moans and groans when some of our previous promising youngsters left much to our chagrin. And how we wished some could have stayed to break through the ranks.

- None more than Giuseppe Rossi. What a talent. The ball sticks to his feet and Micah Richards said he's the toughest opponent he's ever faced!
Sir Alex said he was the future of Man Utd and then offloaded him to the yellow submarine. What a pity.


In any case, these are exciting times indeed. It has been more than a decade since another core group of youngsters, the famous Fergie's Fledgings, broke through to give us many fond memories and to disprove Hansen's infamous "you can't win with kids" boo-boo. And this could well be the next, with so many exciting youngsters raring to go but currently either out on loan for first team action or being held back by a leash in our own backyard.

Can't wait to see them being unleashed one by one to terrorise our opponents; optimally.

- It's been many years, but they are finally here. The next Fergie's Fledglings.
Possebon, Evans, Rafael, Wellbeck > Greening, Chadwick and maybe even Pique.
With Pique, I felt that his movement was cumbersome and thought Shawcross and Evans looked better than him in the reserves.

Only time will tell if Evans truly is better, but I've been very impressed with him so far and for those fans, who love to see young players rise through the ranks, these are the most exciting times in over a decade.
 

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bring on the manucho train!
i was just excited when he came on last night as the first time we played the berb; hope he gets a few games sooner rather than later!
 

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Some real good points RFR. I would definitely be in total agreement about Giggs
and Van Der Sar. I wouldn't be giving up on Scholes just yet cause i still think he
can be brilliant in some matches, especially in Europe where he gets more time on
the ball. Anderson though should be given more games in the league.

I agree that this is the most promising youngsters to be coming through since the
Fledglings. I think Rafael should get some games this season and hopefully
Wellbeck as well. Evans is getting his chance and is now first choice back up so
thats promising.

I think next year will really see these players make there mark where as this
season will be more of a transistion one where thay get used to the first team
and get bits of experience here and there.
Promising times ahead though.
 

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RedForceRising said:
Last night’s performance against Boro should give Sir Alex Ferguson enough encouragement to start playing his young starlets ahead of Man Utd’s old guard.

...

The oldies will still be able to make contributions, but I think Fergie will be encouraged enough to play the younger players in the big matches, because quite honestly, the old guard has struggled to make an impact in those matches and based on recent matches, I’ll take the youthful legs, ability and desire over the so-called experience, which unfortunately hasn’t helped much.


(Bring on the critics….)
Why is it we always seem to agree? :cool: :p

I didn't get to see the Middlesborough game, so I can't comment on that performance.

Of course, the experienced players still have a role to play. However, I honestly think they're on their last legs, no matter how sad or hard it is to admit.

I'm hoping the younger players get plenty of opportunities when its possible, so that they can bed in, and then they can make a quick transition to the first team squad/first 11 (depending on how well the individual player does ;))

It hasn't been ideal to see talented players leave (Shawcross, Pique, Rossi) so hopefully we won't see anymore on the way out.

Obviously, we can't throw them all in at once, but just one or two at a time. Its not as easy as that, so I'm glad its not me thats doing it. But Sir Alex is the expert at it, so I'm quite excited about it all.

And there is no doubt in my mind the youngsters are the most talented since Scholes, Beckham, Neville's and Butt, etc.

Of course, some areas of the pitch will be easier than others to get into. Although its extremely hard to dislodge Rio and Vidic, there isn't much cover in the centre of defence. Theres Brown, but hes been playing as a RB recently, so that should open up the chance for Evans.

With Neville on the way out, theres a big, big opportunity for Rafael or Simpson (although I seem to be the only person who thinks he'll be good enough to be part of the squad) to grab the chance to be in the first-team squad. Even though Brown has done a great job at RB, the lack of a natural RB in Brown may well see someone else getting the chance.

In CM, we are well covered, with Scholes, Anderson, Hargreaves, Carrick and Fletcher. Minus Scholes of course, that leaves us with 4 central midfielders and in all honesty, the midfield is at its best imo when we have one of Hargreaves and Carrick playing with Anderson. Fletcher does a good job (although thats one thing RFR and myself have differing opinions on) so he may also be in the way of a potential star, although that much be subject to change if the youngsters shows otherwise.

On the width, there is one place up for grabs. Ronaldo is a certain starter unless for injury, suspension or resting, but the other place is up for grabs. With Giggs being on his last legs, that leaves Park and Nani as natural width. Nani is still developing, and is far from being the player his ability shows he can be, while Park, who I think is a highly under-rated player, doesn't seem to be the player Sir Alex sees as a first team winger. Then we've got Fletcher, who isn't as good at right-wing, and Hargreaves who is a great winger imo. But neither of them will be placed on the wing imo. So if Nani starts to develop a bit quicker, he may well have the position to himself.

Up front, there is also a chance for someone. Tevez should be a definite starter imo, but we obviously saw otherwise against Chelsea. Then we've got Rooney, who is currently off-form but in the long-term will still be a fantastic player. But they play in the same position, so it should be one or other. Then we've got Berbatov, who isn't playing well at all but needs time to adapt to the teams style (And needs to change his attitude imho.) So that leaves one or two places to fight for a first-team place. At the moment, that 4th place has got to go to Manucho. However, with Berbatov being 28, in the long-term Campbell (if he proves hes a Premier League quality play at Tottenham) and Welbeck will certainly have a say in the matter.

The goalkeeping position is the position in which theres the best chance of someone getting into the team. With VDS being 38, theres not long left in him. But with his lack of form it may be quicker than that. However, currently at the club theres no suggestion of anyone taking that place for good. Tomasz is a great keeper to have as a no 2, but has a lot of improving to do to be seen as a reliable, long-term no 1. Foster is certainly good enough as a reliable, long-term no 1, but if his injury problems continue, they may scupper his development. And Amos and Zieler, both of whom I haven't seen much of so I don't know how good they are, have a long time before they are ready for a high-profile, high-pressure position of Man Utd no 1 goalkeeper.

I hope I haven't forgotten anyone or anything, as I've taken a while to type this, and any players I've mentioned are the players who I think are in the best positions.

They aren't ready to come straight into the team and to have the pressure on them this season. However, we should be using this season as a transitional period in terms of the youngsters, and then we can be raring to go next season, or the season after if needs be.

But whatever the situation, The Future is Bright!
 

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i have somewhat different opinion on the last night performances...i never saw the first half but from what i saw in the second anderson was disappointing, possebon lacks guts( going forward) and skills .
and gibson? omg - just rememberd his 2 shots directed to the 10 th row of the stands.
anderson - by his movement you can see he has skills but he tends to take some time off and disappear during the matches.he's a very strongs lad, has a good passing, but his shots are awful, useless in the air and he'll need to work on those , plus consistancy, if he wants to pay the bit of money back by his performances.
possebon - i haven't seen him enough so far but from what i've seen i have a feeling that he's achieved his dream by playing for us.period.he doesn't seem like a player who wants to prove himself and in all honesty, i can't see him as anything special...everton material at best.i don't know how would he be played ahead of fletcher tbh...fletcher tends to go forward more often, better in the air and in defensive duties, but time is on rodrigo's side...
in fact - had there not been for nani ( some of you will disagree but he was causing a constant panic in boro's defence) , tevez and ronaldo, no one would have made a single attacking move in my honest opinion...
 

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Its easy in hindsight to say "told you so" and things like that but some of you may recall my praising the virtues and talents of some of our youngsters back into last season and beyond. Especially so in threads such as "Who should we buy" etc.

Its also easy to be blase or matter of fact about talent, particularly as we have so much on view and waiting in the wings. Success also blinds some to the unavoidable passage of time and aging of players.

The Premiership is played at 100 miles per hour and it takes its toll on the older player. Our kids are skillful, fast and have the bottle to go for it on the big stage.

Our "kids" are eminently suited to life at the top and should be given their chances, even if it means a potential lack of silverware at the end of any particular season because they will come good, if given the chance.

They are our future and deserve their chance alongside the established stars of today from whom they can only learn and improve.
 
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