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heard this on the radio 2day season ticket holders have money taken out of there accounts for cup games that some dont even go to. now i no alot of people would die 2 c utd watever game but y should season ticket holders be charged for a shitty game like the carling cup if they dont want 2 go 2 it.its totally wrong :mad:
 

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red_dec7 said:
heard this on the radio 2day season ticket holders have money taken out of there accounts for cup games that some dont even go to. now i no alot of people would die 2 c utd watever game but y should season ticket holders be charged for a shitty game like the carling cup if they dont want 2 go 2 it.its totally wrong :mad:
Oh no - lets not go through all this again !!
 

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lol... this had been driven into the dirt and back again.

Season ticket holders had to get cup matches, regardless. No one liked it, but that's how it is. They told you this when you were buying the tickets I'm sure, so why argue. You willingly bought it.
 
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Fair enough, most regular members will agree ( me included ) that there has been quite a few threads discussing this and get fed up of seeing the same thing every few weeks.

But....The thread starter obviously knew noting about this ASC scheme ( sp ), heard it for the first time on the radio, and posted on here as it was new to him.
Then suprise, suprise another poster says, "first ive heard of such ludicrousy, scheming bastards" so obviously not EVERYONE knows the way things are being done.
It's not just this forum that gets repeat threads on almost everything to do with United, it happens on every single forum i go on.
Some people dont watch the news, listen to radio news, read newspapers or go on different forums etc so when they hear such things it's big news to them.

A little bit of tollerence is needed sometimes, dont be so quick to jump on them and say " oh no not again " " I'm sick of hearing this " etc.

Carly , you keep telling us about the sad plight of the Rumanian children, you have told us over and over again, made many threads and posts about this ( and i'm really glad you have ), but would you be ok hearing someone repeat your own words and saying .."Oh no - lets not go through all this again ".

The only way people learn is through reading and listening and forums are a great source of information as there are so many different points of view from around the world but not everyone is bang up to date on every subject.

Hope you can all see where i'm coming from and nothing said is said personal to anyone ( even though i used Carlys name, that was an exaple and NOT aimed at her ).
 

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SALFORD RED said:
Fair enough, most regular members will agree ( me included ) that there has been quite a few threads discussing this and get fed up of seeing the same thing every few weeks.

But....The thread starter obviously knew noting about this ASC scheme ( sp ), heard it for the first time on the radio, and posted on here as it was new to him.
Then suprise, suprise another poster says, "first ive heard of such ludicrousy, scheming bastards" so obviously not EVERYONE knows the way things are being done.
It's not just this forum that gets repeat threads on almost everything to do with United, it happens on every single forum i go on.
Some people dont watch the news, listen to radio news, read newspapers or go on different forums etc so when they hear such things it's big news to them.

A little bit of tollerence is needed sometimes, dont be so quick to jump on them and say " oh no not again " " I'm sick of hearing this " etc.

Carly , you keep telling us about the sad plight of the Rumanian children, you have told us over and over again, made many threads and posts about this ( and i'm really glad you have ), but would you be ok hearing someone repeat your own words and saying .."Oh no - lets not go through all this again ".

The only way people learn is through reading and listening and forums are a great source of information as there are so many different points of view from around the world but not everyone is bang up to date on every subject.

Hope you can all see where i'm coming from and nothing said is said personal to anyone ( even though i used Carlys name, that was an exaple and NOT aimed at her ).
Bollix - you always pick on me Mr Sal because I am just a little girl you bully Grrrrrrrrr, lmao :p

You are right though I must say.

And........

for my defence I usually say that the subject is covered and provide the link for them to go to see this - am I right ?

However.........

When I see this one I am very tired and bloody lazy bitch and couldn't find this link, lol.......so I just quickly tell them this is covered so everyone doesn't go through this all the time again !!!

I'll find the link later so they can read all about this :)

ps.....I think you find Mr Mullet is making joke :D
 

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Good words Sal, but 2 points:

- Mullets I'm sure was being sarcastic
- The thread starter (while granted, I haven't seen much of the user) is not new. red_dec7 became a member feb 07, carly was june 07 ;)

I agree that every place in the world of forums have repeat threads, thats inevitable. But I also believe that a certain bit comes back to the poster. The purpose of a forum is for conversation and a source of gathering information. You can get this 2 ways: research the forum, or post and get replies. Because the former takes a bit more effort, it's usually the path less taken.

Not picking on anyone, just putting in my 2 cents :)
 

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red_dec7 said:
heard this on the radio 2day season ticket holders have money taken out of there accounts for cup games that some dont even go to. now i no alot of people would die 2 c utd watever game but y should season ticket holders be charged for a shitty game like the carling cup if they dont want 2 go 2 it.its totally wrong :mad:
OI! English not sms, I didn't even bother to read your thread.
 

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red_dec7 said:
get with the times old man
.......and you get with the good manners YOUNG man. He say this because we have people from many nations here you know. I sometimes have plenty hard times understanding this talking you do ok........so it is nice if you could make it clear for me and all the other people from other countries too ok......thankyou x
 
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OK, back on topic. A bit long but very interesting read.


September 30, 2007
The Observer

This time last week everyone was struggling to contain their amusement at Chelsea shooting themselves in the foot. Now, just as
suddenly, it is Manchester United's turn to look very silly indeed.

Going out of the Carling Cup at home to Coventry City was one thing, but doing so in front of a record crowd of 74,055, many of whom
did not want to be there in the first place and had reluctantly shelled out money to find themselves watching an unrecognisable
team, was a public-relations fiasco that will take some living down.

Particularly as Sir Alex Ferguson had promised that his youngsters and reserves would do very well against Coventry, and perhaps
even go on to win the Carling Cup. Arsenal's B team were good enough to score six goals at Anfield last season and go on to give
Chelsea a game in the Carling Cup final, but now it is plain for all to see that United's expensively assembled reserves - Nani and
Anderson cost more than £30m between them and the latter was taken off at half time - are not of the same quality. There does not
appear to be another golden generation like the 1992 vintage to carry Fergie safely into retirement, and fans are already making
unkind remarks about their manager staying on too long and showing complete lack of judgment in his use of reserves and substitutes
this season.

First the tickets, though. Several United fans have been in touch to point out that while it is clearly risible for Peter Kenyon to
talk of establishing Chelsea as a global brand on the back of Champions League attendances of fewer than 25,000, Old Trafford's
record Carling Cup crowd was not the handiest stick with which to beat him.

This is because United season-ticket holders are now force-fed cup football under the hated Automatic Cup Scheme. Gone are the days,
at Old Trafford in any case, when supporters could regard cup games as optional extras. Now you either undertake to pay for every
game of the season, at considerable extra cost when United can play half a dozen Champions League ties as well as whatever comes
along in the domestic knockouts, or risk losing your season-ticket entitlement to someone with deeper pockets.

United have lost some of their oldest and most traditional supporters this season - season-ticket holders with decades of happy
memories have given up for good, either on principle or because they cannot justify the additional expense - although crucially the
club haven't lost much money. Even if there were more empty seats than normal against Coventry, the vast majority had already been
paid for.

To no one's great surprise, a scheme for supporters to sell on tickets via the club for cup games they had no wish to attend turned
out not to work as well as anticipated. Mainly because United will put it into operation only when a game has been declared a
sell-out. In other words, the United Ticket Exchange will help sell tickets only when the club have none left to sell themselves.

While gates such as Wednesday's suggest United have got their sums just about right, and that sufficient numbers of new supporters
have bought in to replace the ones who have left in disgust, the figure of 74,055 no longer reflects the loyalty of the fans so much
as the hard-nosed business stance of the club.

As one supporter said, United are now in so much debt they cannot afford crowds of 25,000 and have taken steps to stop it happening.
Under normal circumstances the 'natural' take-up for the Carling Cup game might have been around 50,000. Good going by anyone else's
standards, but not enough to pay the Glazers' bills.

That brings us to the most unsavoury aspect of United's short-lived Carling Cup campaign. Having used dubious means to fill the
ground, or at least extract maximum revenue from hard-pressed supporters, United then proceeded to field a team of reserves and make
an ignominious exit. Surely they can't have it both ways. If the fans are being forced to turn up for Carling Cup games, so should
Manchester United. Regardless of the result against Coventry or United's habitual disregard for the Carling Cup, it is bad practice
and bad faith to change the entire team for a home match. Making a quick exit at someone else's ground is just about acceptable, but
it is never a good idea to short-change your own fans, especially when you have used thumbscrews to get them to attend.

Even from a financial point of view it makes no sense. Apart from anything else the possibility of another record crowd at a later
stage of the competition has been squandered. United might have forfeited a home game against Liverpool or Arsenal. And that's the
kind of thing even the Glazers will notice eventually, although they are unlikely to sum up the situation as poetically as Arsene
Wenger.

'Fans are the keepers of our football,' the Arsenal manager said, wisely. 'Perhaps it is time to worry about the game losing its
soul, because things have changed beyond all recognition because of money. There is no problem with business, but you have to keep
your football values.'

Wenger was not talking specifically about Manchester United. But he could have been.
 

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I don't think there's anything that anyone can add to that without being redundant. An excellent report. I, and I'm sure every other United, and hell, football fan in general, will agree with the points made.

Maybe we can take this and get a petition signed...
 

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red_dec7 said:
get with the times old man
I don't think it's so much getting with the times, I think it's more about showing your intelligence. The overall intelligence of the world, I think, is dropping fast (common sense is now practically a lost art!). We don't need to encourage it by dummying up the language too.
 
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GREED WILL BE THE DEATH OF FOOTBALL

The Premier League is under threat from buccaneering foreign ownership

Will Hutton
Sunday September 30, 2007
The Observer

Too much money is toxic, as the children of the super-rich show us and as the English Premier League is discovering. Its worldwide television audiences ensure its 20 clubs gross an annual revenue of more than £1bn a year, but it has neither the values nor the structures to protect itself from the attentions of some of the most suspect billionaires in the world.

Instead of the profits being spread to the roots of the game and the communities in which the clubs are embedded, the Premier League has become the vehicle for financial engineering that makes private equity look honourable. In essence, clubs are being bought at astronomic prices, then the revenue they generate is used to pay back the debt their new owners incurred. The winners are the selling shareholders, the loser is football.
This is a condemnation no longer confined to diehard football fanzine readers, but more generally, especially in mainland Europe, where there is growing indignation at the way English clubs buy success and unbalance European-wide competitions. Last week, Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov took his stake in Arsenal closer to the 30 per cent that would trigger a full bid. Despite the club's robust talk of staying British, the eye-watering price he can afford to pay for the shares, to be financed by the club's own revenues post takeover, surely means it is only a matter of time before even this citadel falls.

The trouble is that, with nine out of 20 Premier League clubs already foreign owned and another nine targeted, the English football authorities can no longer speak for the interests of football, but for the new generation of foreign owners.

England has lost sovereignty over one of its most precious sporting and cultural assets. Yet nobody mounts a Sun-style campaign to hold a referendum on the question. The impact on the national game - one-sided football, a tediously predictable league, absurdly paid stars, a sleazy underworld of agents, increasingly cynical and stagnating crowds, a weakened national side and the growing covert campaign to create a closed shop to protect the interests of owners which will freeze the league's membership for all time - is clear.

This will incalculably effect the lives, aspirations and pleasure of millions more than, say, the second-order changes proposed for the governance of the European Union in the EU Reform Treaty. But then Britain regards loss of economic sovereignty with an equanimity as baffling as the overheated outrage about 'Brussels'.

When Arsenal fall, the Premier League's four top clubs will be foreign owned. Both the American Glazers, who paid £800m for Manchester United, and Americans Tom Hicks and George Gillett, who now own Liverpool, explicitly use the clubs' revenues to pay off their debt. Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich owns Chelsea as a kind of football bauble, until recently spending hundreds of millions careless of the economics.

More recently, Peter Kenyon, the club's chief executive, said that Chelsea need to win the European Champions League twice in the next 10 years to justify Abramovich's expenditure. Manchester City's long-awaited success in the first few games of this season has been bought by a former Prime Minister of Thailand under fraud investigation, but whose calculation is the same as the others. It is not glory or football that motivates owners - it is discounted rates of return.
Arsene Wenger, the French coach of Arsenal, gave a devastating interview to France Football magazine last week. While Manchester United, one of the world's richest club, might service vast debts, he says the model is not transferable. The impact on smaller clubs could be 'mortal', simultaneously locked in an inflationary spiral to pay players, potentially culminating in a 'catastrophic' collapse of the over-indebted clubs.

Chelsea and England captain John Terry's recent £135,000-a-week contract, a catch-up with the pay of Chelsea imports Michael Ballack and Andrei Shevchenko, is a classic example of the inflationary dynamic. Owner-supporters have been supplanted by owner-businessmen, says Wenger, and the English game is tottering under the multiple assaults. As cynicism rises about players' motivation, and games become more predictable, he notes that television audiences are beginning to fall and it is becoming harder to fill stadiums.

What to do? Ten days ago, Michael Platini, incoming president of the Union of European Football Associations (Uefa) wrote to Gordon Brown arguing passionately that 'the values championed by football are a powerful source of social integration and civic education'. Now the values are money. He wants pan-European action: wage caps on players; quotas for home-grown players; regulations on agents; financial checks on owners; revenue sharing between clubs; and redistribution of revenue into lower leagues. Platini even wants a reference to sport's special nature in the EU Reform Treaty.

Brown will give Platini short shrift. When a draft EU report on football (commissioned by Britain!) dared to float similar ideas, a Brown spokesman said he would not allow England's national game to be run by Brussels, a line deemed to play well in the Eurosceptic tabloids. So, instead, it can be run by a murky crew of the footloose global rich, already salivating at the prospect of breaking free from tiresome Uefa and even national leagues, instead mounting show games between their debt-burdened clubs in global tours, modelled on rock concerts and sponsored by multinationals.

But here's the rub. Fewer and fewer people will care. Football needs its roots, otherwise it is purposeless exhibitionism. I don't hark back to a golden age - money, football and dodgy values have long been intertwined - but what is happening is at a new level. Football values must be reasserted and some limits have to be negotiated and it will have to be an initiative on a pan-European scale. The way things are, it cannot and will not include free-market, Eurosceptic, every- asset-can-bought-by-anyone England.

Maybe it would be best for football if we left Uefa, allow it to protect football and watch the Premier League slowly self-destruct. You can't argue with Eurosceptics - they are a priesthood - but here is terrain where their philosophy betrays millions. Only reality will persuade the English of sceptic perfidy. Football could be a perfect example.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2180409,00.html

Football is not just a simple game. It is a weapon of the revolution.
Che Guevara
 

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The entire time all I read was "American sports" over and over.

Why is it that I go to the other side of the world just to see what's in my own backyard? :(
 
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