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Pz
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Discussion Starter #1
I have a question for you all since alot of people in here seem to be dropping high quality posts recently so i have to ask...what does end product mean to you?

People say Ronaldo had no end product, he was only tricks, step overs and more tricks...Remember one trick pony?? lol...Now i do not want to pick on any individual united player but lets take park ji sung for example. To me pundits who are so quick to speak of the word 'end product' often use it just for those who do many skills etc...and if they aint scoring a whole bunch of goals or creating a million assists have no end product...Well then park he has it all..because he does no tricks hardly, he does no step overs etc...but where are his goals and assists?

To me Park is a highly limited player who runs alot but for example, ronaldo in his first season had more end product than Park did last season...Wes Brown had more end product than Park last season. But is it all about assits and goals? Surely getting in many good crosses even with all the skills etc is end product even if someone does not score at the end of the cross/final ball if its quality...because then the situation is out of the players control.

Again i'm sorry to pick on park but then again park has no end product because i very rarely see him put in quality crosses or great balls into the box to the right person.

BUT park runs alot, has experience and would he have been more effective to united than ronaldo in ronaldos first season, should it have been park playing there? Because he runs alot more, has more experience and sometimes a team needs poeple who work very hard rather than a sily player...BUT again...he plays out wide for united...traditionally its silky players who play there..

So i have to ask...what does end product mean?...is it simply goals and assists or is there more to it than how it gets played out?

By the way, this is not a PARK bashing thread because i think towards the end of the season, he did alot of running for united and put in some very tiring shifts...were they effective? subjective..but if u say yes...thats end product right of some sort? If u say no because he provides no threat offensively and creates or scores no goals...then thats no end product right? lol...

I dunno if im making my questions and points clear here but yes...what is end product to you?!?

Is it real simple?

pz
 
Z

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For me it's all about 'key passes' and goals. If a cross creates a goalscoring
opportunity then that is definitely a 'key pass', because the winger can only
create the opportunity and has no control of whether the striker will score or not.

End product can also mean you created a goalscoring opportunity indirectly.

Let's say Gary Neville plays a through ball to Ronaldo down the wing and Ronaldo
runs to the byline and crosses to Rooney who scores. All three players have had
an input on the goal so all three have had an end product.

Scoring goals is obviously end product so no need for me to talk about that :p

To be fair to Park, he struggled with injury last season and only made 18
appearances in total.

Nice idea for a thread too OG ;)
 

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MUT all-time great
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Football is like a chain. If a link breaks, the whole thing is useless, i.e. it takes a whole team of players to score a goal. If someone misses a tackle here or mistimes a pass there, wins or loses a header, stops the ball from going out to touch etc. it could prevent, or create a goal. For me, the end product is the scoreline.
 

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Pz
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Discussion Starter #4
-zuco- said:
For me it's all about 'key passes' and goals. If a cross creates a goalscoring
opportunity then that is definitely a 'key pass', because the winger can only
create the opportunity and has no control of whether the striker will score or not.

End product can also mean you created a goalscoring opportunity indirectly.

Let's say Gary Neville plays a through ball to Ronaldo down the wing and Ronaldo
runs to the byline and crosses to Rooney who scores. All three players have had
an input on the goal so all three have had an end product.

Scoring goals is obviously end product so no need for me to talk about that :p

To be fair to Park, he struggled with injury last season and only made 18
appearances in total.

Nice idea for a thread too OG ;)
Yup thats true on Park, I was harsh on the guy...Just felt like a good example at the time,haha. Also i never I really thought about like u mentioned with Neville to Ronaldo to Rooney etc...As in they all played a role in a goal so they all had key passes or end product.

Nice post ;-)

Pz:cool:
 

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Pz
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Discussion Starter #5
piazza said:
end product is the scoreline.
I woudn't dare argue with that! :cool:

You have stepped your game up alot since the whole mexes stuff! Becoming a full fledged member of this board now i see!!

Well done dude!:cool:
 

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i dunno what some of ye are on about the goal being the end product well obviously, but apart from that the end product is the perfectly weighted pass that Scholes has been doin for years any1 can fire a cross into the box and some1 throws a head on it woop de doo, for me its all about the perfect true ball the ball that u can take perfectly on your stride, basically what Scholes has being doin for years thats the true art of end product
 

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Lol. Good contentious thread, mate. Hopefully we can all debate until the cows come home. :)

For me, "end product" simply must mean actual benefit or contribution to the good of the team, be it a goal, an assist or just some movement that leads to reasonable benefits of the team such as creating an opening to even timely tackle and interception etc. So turning the guts out of a defender 3 times over but with the ball still firmly stuck by your side instead of delivering a reasonable cross for your exasperated team mates in the box is not an end product.

I am sure there would be many other different interpretations so let's sit back and wait for the responses.

P.S. Btw what happened to your Bulgarian friend? :p ;)
 

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United_OG said:
I woudn't dare argue with that! :cool:

You have stepped your game up alot since the whole mexes stuff! Becoming a full fledged member of this board now i see!!

Well done dude!:cool:
Thank you for the most back-handed compliment of all time lmao :p. I watch United and Roma every week, and from what I've seen Mexes is better. We're all entitled to our opinions,are we not? I honestly think that this is one of the better threads on this forum, should make for interesting talk, keep it up, pal.
 

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Pz
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Discussion Starter #9
Boomhauer50 said:
i dunno what some of ye are on about the goal being the end product well obviously, but apart from that the end product is the perfectly weighted pass that Scholes has been doin for years any1 can fire a cross into the box and some1 throws a head on it woop de doo, for me its all about the perfect true ball the ball that u can take perfectly on your stride, basically what Scholes has being doin for years thats the true art of end product
Thats very true also, players who play through the middle and provide those killer passes and players of immense vision like zidane, ronaldinho, kaka, scholes and rivaldo just had end product like it never ended.
 

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Thank you united og you realise the beauty of that pass through the middle which split defenses thats what i love thats the beautiful game to me like what Zidane did "the best ever" what Scholes does the living legend and Kaka imo the best player around now thats what its all about
 
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An assist is an assist, whether it's beautiful or ugly, it still created a goal.
 

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-zuco- said:
For me it's all about 'key passes' and goals. If a cross creates a goalscoring
opportunity then that is definitely a 'key pass',
because the winger can only
create the opportunity and has no control of whether the striker will score or not.

End product can also mean you created a goalscoring opportunity indirectly.

Let's say Gary Neville plays a through ball to Ronaldo down the wing and Ronaldo
runs to the byline and crosses to Rooney who scores. All three players have had
an input on the goal so all three have had an end product.

Scoring goals is obviously end product so no need for me to talk about that :p

To be fair to Park, he struggled with injury last season and only made 18
appearances in total.

Nice idea for a thread too OG ;)
Good post Z. I was just about the write the exact same thing. :p
 

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Depends on a players position also.
For a striker, end product is goals and assists. Mainly goals. 95% of strikers are judged on their goals and nothing else, even if their contribution to the team comes from elsewhere. Perhaps our own Rooney is an example of this. He is allegedly an overrated player because he doesnt score 40 a season, but he oozes end product. His brain and creativity make him up there with the best.

For midfielders, end product is goals, assists, key passes... etc. Ronaldo has it all. Scholes has it. Lampard and Gerrard have it. If you can cross, that is good enough, even if noone gets on the end of it.
Unfortunately, i will use Nani as an example. A few tricks, beating 2 men, reaching the byline and putting your cross in the crowd is the most frustrating example of a lack of end product. Nani does this a bit too regularly. Unfortunately, having tricks and skills counts against you if you lack a bit of end product.

Defenders, too can have end product (though it is less talked about). A polished and finished defender will be in the right place at the right time, make key tackles and may also contribute with goals and assists.
 

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Definition: end product

noun

Something brought about by a cause: aftermath, consequence, corollary, effect, event, fruit, harvest, issue, outcome, precipitate, ramification, result, resultant, sequel, sequence, sequent, upshot. See cause/effect.

BEAT THAT!
 
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