[Rooneys_Temper]

Now this isnt based on that shocking performance tonight against spain,but in general.People got giddy after less than a year,saying how much we've improved ect ect.Well we havent.There are times when I think the International scene in England should be written off as a bad idea.Its clear that in our nation,CLUB football comes first THEN international.This is fine by me as Im not the biggest fan of the National side.But as a footballing nation,the heart and soul of the game,its quite poor.Like Big Sam said (cant believe im quoting this cowboy) in the back of there minds tonight they will know especially the Chelsea/Villa boys that coming up is the FA Cup,EPL & Champs League (obv not Villa) and THAT is more important to them than this friendly.Then on the flip side,the spanish team looked impeccable.Xavi especially was absolutley awesome,yet his team are top of the league all be it by a mile and fighting strong in the UCL but this didnt affect him.Oh well,this is the most i have said on England in a long while and now it ends.

 

[United_OG]

I think technique and having the experience of playing in other leagues help aswell as does different cultures.

Brazil/spain/argentina/portugal even france etc have players of much better technical ability than england and much of it is to do with the upbringing of players.

Here people are discouraged to be creative and are instantly labelled 'showboater/fancy dans' if they try anything different whereas in leagues and upbringing such as laliga players are encouraged to be creative. They also have a strong collection of south american based players playing in laliga and people coming up over there play the football on the ground with more emphasis on skill than strength because they see players like ronaldinho/messi/insiesta/xavi/silva/villa and the list goes on whereas here its the opposite imo. When lampard is one of the best technical players in the league, you have a problem because most of his game is based on his strenght and shooting without any creativity.


When england play with calm and possession of the ball at wembley, the crowd booed which pretty much sums it all up for me. They want long balls at times you'd think.

Its nothing to do with putting club before country imo its more do with with different cultures and upbringings and the style of football played.

Torres is a great striker for example, without doubt BUT he is not as clinical as villa who is a second striker or as good as eto'o but because he plays in england he is automaticaly given the best striker label. In Laliga you get less space in and around the box so you have to be very clinical when you get a chance and if you're a midfielder, have to be very creative to make a chance and thats why people like iniesta step up to the plate and be that guy. Even torres has said that the defenders in spain are better whereas here they are more agressive but much more niave and you get more space and chances.

Here carrick is considered creative... but he is the 'alonso' of spain and really is not a guy to make unpredictable passed through the eye of a needle stuff. He does great balls to players out wide and will pick a pass through the middle if its there but he cannot do it as be the player who can see a pass others cannot.

That all being said, we do have a few players of decent techinical ability. Rooney is the most technical with gerrard being good too and joe cole and beckham being of decent standard. Wallcot plays the arsenal brand of football so he will be more technical than physical too so there are some signs of hope however we will never be as technical as spain or latin american clubs BUT we may not be 10 years behind as a team though.

We may not be as good as spain but in a major tournament if we have our strongest team and with our defence being very good, we could make a good match against them!

England really are not a terrible team (we're not great either), we just lack in the technical department.

Sending players to play their football in other countries imo would help but who would want them? lol

pz!

oh by the way, i think we have improved under capello, we were even worse under maclaren!

 

[Cappy]

I guess we can close this thread now, thanks OG.

 

[mufc-ok]

United > Ingurland

I have always had a hatred for our national team.

 

[Jazz 16]

United > Ingurland

I have always had a hatred for our national team.

thats sad and its a great shame.
maybe its cos in England you have twats like Terry, Lampard and Gerrard playing
for the national team. It must be weird trying to support a team that contains
so many figures of hate every other Saturday? I have always loved the Irish
national team and taken great pride in the Green shirt.
so I can kind of see your point....but how could you not root for England to win the WC?
If Ireland ever won the WC Id have a conniption and die a happy man.

 

[TheManc]

thats sad and its a great shame.
maybe its cos in England you have twats like Terry, Lampard and Gerrard playing
for the national team. It must be weird trying to support a team that contains
so many figures of hate every other Saturday? I have always loved the Irish
national team and taken great pride in the Green shirt.
so I can kind of see your point....but how could you not root for England to win the WC?
If Ireland ever won the WC Id have a conniption and die a happy man.

Yep thats the reason.

Part of me hopes England don't win the WC as it would mean Terry would get his own statue and be knighted. which is a crime when you look at other great players who don't get any recognition.

 

[VaVa]

thats sad and its a great shame.
maybe its cos in England you have twats like Terry, Lampard and Gerrard playing
for the national team. It must be weird trying to support a team that contains
so many figures of hate every other Saturday? I have always loved the Irish
national team and taken great pride in the Green shirt.
so I can kind of see your point....but how could you not root for England to win the WC?
If Ireland ever won the WC Id have a conniption and die a happy man.

Ahh stop Jazz, I don't think any other feeling could top that.


I think England should be doing better than they are, they have as good as squad a anyone out there. England on there day could beat anyone but they just can't perfrom on the big stage.

I actually like watching England is the major finals and the Euros wasn't the same without them.

 

[TheManc]

Its because we aren't technical enough.

Spain, Brazil (even the way they are playing atm), Argentina, Portugal are far, far superior than England technically.

look at players like Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Messi, Riquelme, Deco, ect. England have only 1 player who is as good as that group technically and thats Scholes. Carrick is the closest but he isn't half as good as those I've mentioned technically.

We just can't keep the ball.

Gerrard is a driving force who covers the whole pitch - this can be exploited as he gets caught out of position, which is why he never plays CM.

Lampard is good technically, but his strengths are making late runs, which you don't do as often in internationals due to the opposition keeping the ball so much.

Barry is decent, though he isn't a patch, techincally, on the abover players. Don't even try and compare them.

Hargreaves isn't a ball retainer.

Then lets look at other player we have who technically just aren't good enough:

SWP - Fast player with no footballing brain.

Agbonglahor - Incredibly fast and explosive, but can't pass and can barely controlt the ball.

Downing - Lets not go there.

Johnson - International level is tactical and his positional sense, or lack there of, gets shown up for what it is.

Heskey - His strength is important in the Premiership. However its overated at International level as he can't barge into opponents and his touch is shocking.

Jagielka - exactly the same.

There are many more.

Just because you are good in the league doesn't mean you will be good at international level. They are completely different.
If you fast, strong and brave you will make a good Premiership defender, but at International level tactically you will be found out - see Micah Richards for proof. If he was in Spain or Italy then he wouldn't get half the praise he has done in this country.

International games are similar to Serie A and La Liga (to a lesser extent). They are nothing like the Premierhsip which is why we faulter vs teams who can actually string 5 passes together.

 

[Keano4taoiseach]

England need an engine in midfield. Hargreaves fits that role but is injured too often. Where's the next Bryan Robson!

 

[mufc-ok]

thats sad and its a great shame.
maybe its cos in England you have twats like Terry, Lampard and Gerrard playing
for the national team. It must be weird trying to support a team that contains
so many figures of hate every other Saturday? I have always loved the Irish
national team and taken great pride in the Green shirt.
so I can kind of see your point....but how could you not root for England to win the WC?
If Ireland ever won the WC Id have a conniption and die a happy man.

Yeah it is sad mate i never used to fell that way towards England, There just so many reasons i hate them now

1. United players get blamed for everything by the press and fans when we lose etc
2. Theres no passion from the players apart from maybe Rooney and Hargreaves who tries his hardest.
3 Gerrard and the like of Terry who oull fake injuries and cant be arsed to play for their own team.
4. Those Pathetic fans who go to Wembley not to cher us on but to boo the team.
5. The FA - Nuff said!

 

[piazza]

I agree with mufc-ok.

England fans sing shit like "We hope your kids die of cancer" to Becks. Not to mention, I always hear "Stand up if you hate Man U" sung every time England are on TV. Your supposed to be there to support your nation, not slag clubs.

 

[TheManc]

^ But when it comes to the tournements the fans are awesome.

We had the best fans at WC 2002, Euro 2004, WC 2006. Every game we outsung the opposition. We were named as the official best fans in atleast 1 of them if I'm not mistaken.

But Wembley is crap. Its the London fans. In general they are crap.

Having spent most of my life in Cheshire and now living in Portsmouth I can safely say that people are much more passionate in the north. Maybe its because its more business like in the South.

 

[Jazz 16]

^ But when it comes to the tournements the fans are awesome.

We had the best fans at WC 2002, Euro 2004, WC 2006. Every game we outsung the opposition. We were named as the official best fans in atleast 1 of them if I'm not mistaken.

But Wembley is crap. Its the London fans. In general they are crap.

Having spent most of my life in Cheshire and now living in Portsmouth I can safely say that people are much more passionate in the north. Maybe its because its more business like in the South.

Good point. Your fans used to go around wrecking the place, but in those
tournaments you mentioned they were unbelievable, some of the best.

I guess its cos the hardcore fan will go follow their country at these tournaments,
which also happen to be in great places to visit (Asia, Portugal and Germany).

If you are prepared to travel and see your country play, then you are patriotic
and you will sing, dance and roar the team on, as well as having a great time getting boozed up.

Im not sure about your generalisation that London fans are crap, cos I simply wouldnt know.
What I do know, is how fickle, impatient and demanding some of your fans
appear to be, from what I see when watching your games. I also see on the
forum how so many of the English just dont give a shit about the national team

I can understand why as I have explained above....but it still boggles me at the same time.

But when you get to South Africa in 2010 and do well, your fans will be there in force,
outsinging every other nation (bar the IRISH)

 

[TheManc]

Yeah, I guess I'm wrong to generalise everyone from London. West Ham have good fans for instance, but fans of Fulham, Chelsea, Arsenal and to an extent Spurs just don't seem to eat, drink and breath football like the people from the North. Like I said its probably because the North is more working class.

 

[mufc-ok]

Yeah, I guess I'm wrong to generalise everyone from London. West Ham have good fans for instance, but fans of Fulham, Chelsea, Arsenal and to an extent Spurs just don't seem to eat, drink and breath football like the people from the North. Like I said its probably because the North is more working class.

Good post mate, I agree.

Its Grim Up North

 

[piazza]

^ But when it comes to the tournements the fans are awesome.

We had the best fans at WC 2002, Euro 2004, WC 2006. Every game we outsung the opposition. We were named as the official best fans in atleast 1 of them if I'm not mistaken.

But Wembley is crap. Its the London fans. In general they are crap.

Having spent most of my life in Cheshire and now living in Portsmouth I can safely say that people are much more passionate in the north. Maybe its because its more business like in the South.

Sing as loud as you want at tournaments, they still sang songs wishing a slow painful death on your captain's children.

I'll admit, in terms of loudness, and overall behavior England is no1, but your even more out in front in terms of despicable behavior towards your own players.