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I dunno about not playing Gerro at CM..... i defo dont agre with that!
He is one of the best in that position, everybody knows that!
Play him and Lamps in CM position with a DCM behind, like Carrick or Barry!
Ans believe me Barry is a good player, and about technical part, Germany aint near as good tecnical as England, lets be honest they aint.
So England have balance, just have to get it right,
i agree with Jazz, give the new manager some time and it should be ok.
He has to get the team going.
 

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VaVaVoom said:
I dunno about not playing Gerro at CM..... i defo dont agre with that!
He is one of the best in that position, everybody knows that!
Play him and Lamps in CM position with a DCM behind, like Carrick or Barry!
Ans believe me Barry is a good player, and about technical part, Germany aint near as good tecnical as England, lets be honest they aint.
So England have balance, just have to get it right,
i agree with Jazz, give the new manager some time and it should be ok.
He has to get the team going.
But Germany are unique. They always have been. You could stick a bunch of bin men in the German NT and they'd scrape to the semi's, they just have that winning mentality.

But lets look at other countries:

Spain - Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Villa, Silva ect - all excellent on the ball.

Argentina - Riquelme, Cambiasso, Messi ect - All amazing on the ball.

Holland - Van Der Vaart, Sniejder, Robben ect - all amazing on the ball

Italy - Pirlo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Del Piero ect - All amazing on the ball

We have - Rio, J.Cole and thats it.

I'm sorry but if you think players in the premiership are as good on the ball as other countries I think your dead wrong. Why do you think the ball is played about on the ground a lot more in international matches and foreign countries? Because there players are good with the ball.

I watched the City - Milan pre season game and it really showed the difference, when it was in Milan's box they would pass there way out of trouble - without losing the ball, and what did the City players do? They hoofed it.

Possession is the most important part of International football, and to keep possession you need players who are good on the ball.

Look in CL matches, when it comes to the big, big games how many times do English teams coume out and actually play?

vs Barca we put 10 men behind the ball why? Because we could never compete with them with the ball (at the Nou Camp it was like 70 - 30% in favour of them for possession).

Liverpool set there stall out, so do Chelsea, Frank Rijkaard said the same, that we pack 10 men begind the ball.

Our NT needs to do the same. Technically we're so inferior its rediculous.

You find out who the best players are technically when they are with the ball under pressure, do they hoof it clear? Or do they stay calm and look for a pass? We have Rio, Scholes, Carrick, King and J.Cole who are excellent with the ball under pressure, the rest are good but they will get found out when it comes to playing against proper ball retainers.

Barry is a good player but he would never, ever get anywhere near Spains NT, or Argentina's NT as although he one of our better ball players he is crap compared to others.

Gerrard has Alonso in the CM to partner him who is great on the ball.

Lampard - Chelsea don't play a possession style like we or Arsenal do.

The only way we can succeed is if we make ourselves hard to beat. If its Gerrard and Lampard up against Fabregas and Xavi who will have more of the ball?

I'm not doubting Gerrard as a CM, but he needs the right partner, 1 who can cover for him with there positional sense, like Mascherano. Benitez and Cappello have both sussed this out. Infact all of my scouser mates think the same.
 

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our team goes out scared and overburdened with the expectation of a nation .

they are scared to excel in case they fail .

i would take them on the lash before a big game and get them to relax with each other .

i would take the press on head on stating we need support and backing not sniping and whacking .

i would play english style attack minded football and i would bring in young agbonlahour wilshire etc etc at once

a haggler led england would take on the world and win .

i sent this to the fa after they binned mclaren in a sort of job application and they sent me a polite reply telling me they were seeking someone with a proven track record .

or i could be talking twaddle again
 

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TheManc said:
But Germany are unique. They always have been. You could stick a bunch of bin men in the German NT and they'd scrape to the semi's, they just have that winning mentality.

But lets look at other countries:

Spain - Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Villa, Silva ect - all excellent on the ball.

Argentina - Riquelme, Cambiasso, Messi ect - All amazing on the ball.

Holland - Van Der Vaart, Sniejder, Robben ect - all amazing on the ball

Italy - Pirlo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Del Piero ect - All amazing on the ball

We have - Rio, J.Cole and thats it.

I'm sorry but if you think players in the premiership are as good on the ball as other countries I think your dead wrong. Why do you think the ball is played about on the ground a lot more in international matches and foreign countries? Because there players are good with the ball.

I watched the City - Milan pre season game and it really showed the difference, when it was in Milan's box they would pass there way out of trouble - without losing the ball, and what did the City players do? They hoofed it.

Possession is the most important part of International football, and to keep possession you need players who are good on the ball.

Look in CL matches, when it comes to the big, big games how many times do English teams coume out and actually play?

vs Barca we put 10 men behind the ball why? Because we could never compete with them with the ball (at the Nou Camp it was like 70 - 30% in favour of them for possession).

Liverpool set there stall out, so do Chelsea, Frank Rijkaard said the same, that we pack 10 men begind the ball.

Our NT needs to do the same. Technically we're so inferior its rediculous.

You find out who the best players are technically when they are with the ball under pressure, do they hoof it clear? Or do they stay calm and look for a pass? We have Rio, Scholes, Carrick, King and J.Cole who are excellent with the ball under pressure, the rest are good but they will get found out when it comes to playing against proper ball retainers.

Barry is a good player but he would never, ever get anywhere near Spains NT, or Argentina's NT as although he one of our better ball players he is crap compared to others.

Gerrard has Alonso in the CM to partner him who is great on the ball.

Lampard - Chelsea don't play a possession style like we or Arsenal do.

The only way we can succeed is if we make ourselves hard to beat. If its Gerrard and Lampard up against Fabregas and Xavi who will have more of the ball?

I'm not doubting Gerrard as a CM, but he needs the right partner, 1 who can cover for him with there positional sense, like Mascherano. Benitez and Cappello have both sussed this out. Infact all of my scouser mates think the same.
That is my whole point about this, you say Germany could field any players an reach the semi finals, ye have to get that winnng mentality aswell.
Germany play the same kinda game as ye, strong fast game!
and there is more people who can keep the ball in the england team..... lamps doesnt miss a pass much, gerrard doesnt miss many.
Ye can play your own game, a game that will suit your players, how can you not see this, Spain have a side which plays the ball along the ground.
But ye aint spain.... get your tactics that suit your players and it will work.
Again give capello time. Ye have the players......... every player is top notch.
And Barca were chasing that game, we would be the same if we were the ones chasing the game, 3 outa 4 clubs in CL semis were english! Utd fielded 5 english players in the final. Its down to winning mentality........ there is something wrong with there heads.

To say ye dont have the players is a joke............a complete joke:eek:
 

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VaVaVoom said:
That is my whole point about this, you say Germany could field any players an reach the semi finals, ye have to get that winnng mentality aswell.
Germany play the same kinda game as ye, strong fast game!
and there is more people who can keep the ball in the england team..... lamps doesnt miss a pass much, gerrard doesnt miss many.
Ye can play your own game, a game that will suit your players, how can you not see this, Spain have a side which plays the ball along the ground.
But ye aint spain.... get your tactics that suit your players and it will work.
Again give capello time. Ye have the players......... every player is top notch.
And Barca were chasing that game, we would be the same if we were the ones chasing the game, 3 outa 4 clubs in CL semis were english! Utd fielded 5 english players in the final. Its down to winning mentality........ there is something wrong with there heads.

To say ye dont have the players is a joke............a complete joke:eek:
No I was saying we don't have the players to play a techincal game. We have to make ourselves hard to beat, not like we did vs the Czechs.

Barca weren't chasing the game in the first leg, when they had over 70% of possession.

I seem to remember Milan having more possession than us over both legs in 06/07 aswell.

I'm not saying England can't be successful, but we have to find a tactic that works for us (like you said) we can't try and out pass the opposition.

Lampard is good at passing but when he's under pressure you see the difference.
Its like comparing him to Scholes in terms of keeping possession.

We had 3/4 in the semis because we are very hard to beat thats what I'm saying. England need to do the same thing.

Yeah we had loads of British in the final - but that was vs Chelsea. Plus we have the best British players in terms of actually playing the ball (Scholes, Carrick, Rio and to an extent Rooney)
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Jazz 16 said:
Ok fair enough RD.....though I still think you are being harsh on your national team. Why cant you give the manager a bit of time to get his ideas across? Capello has only been in the job a few months and people are already on his back :rolleyes: Wait and see, but I reckon England will get to the semi's or better in the next World Cup. It takes time and it will come together. No team in World football can be consistently good over many many years (not Incl. Brazil back in the day). Its a tough job and the players do try. To suggest they dont care or try is ridiculous imo.

I never even mentioned the manager. No, these players have been like this since pre McClaren, its nothing new. I do not think they do care. Their salaries are all they care about. Any player playing for England should play for nothing, for the honour of pulling that famous shirt on. The last person I can truthfully say always played 100% for England was Bryan Robson.
 
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VaVaVoom said:
That is my whole point about this, you say Germany could field any players an reach the semi finals, ye have to get that winnng mentality aswell.
Germany play the same kinda game as ye, strong fast game!
and there is more people who can keep the ball in the england team..... lamps doesnt miss a pass much, gerrard doesnt miss many.
Ye can play your own game, a game that will suit your players, how can you not see this, Spain have a side which plays the ball along the ground.
But ye aint spain.... get your tactics that suit your players and it will work.
Again give capello time. Ye have the players......... every player is top notch.
And Barca were chasing that game, we would be the same if we were the ones chasing the game, 3 outa 4 clubs in CL semis were english! Utd fielded 5 english players in the final. Its down to winning mentality........ there is something wrong with there heads.

To say ye dont have the players is a joke............a complete joke:eek:
Have we gone back in time to ye olde England? :D
 

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The players are lazy, I do not give Capello much of a chance but wish him well. There is very little competition for places, thats half the problem.
 

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no any single english player plays with passion for england
playing for england is just like a homework for the players
 

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haggler said:
our team goes out scared and overburdened with the expectation of a nation .

they are scared to excel in case they fail .

i would take them on the lash before a big game and get them to relax with each other .

i would take the press on head on stating we need support and backing not sniping and whacking .

i would play english style attack minded football and i would bring in young agbonlahour wilshire etc etc at once

a haggler led england would take on the world and win .

i sent this to the fa after they binned mclaren in a sort of job application and they sent me a polite reply telling me they were seeking someone with a proven track record .

or i could be talking twaddle again
As Haggler said, the nation is expecting too much.

Look at Spain, Senior Aragones tried to resign 3 times but the Spanish FA said NO. That’s having all the backing you can get from your country. And trust me, many wanted his head on a plate with the loss to NI, Sweden and not picking Raul for the qualifying games and to Euro Championship.

In England you get bashed for a loss or picking the wrong players.:rolleyes:
 

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Are united fans hat bothered about England? Not tryin to cause an argument here club v country, but faced with a choice would u rather united win more trophies or england win a tournament?
Myself, I'd much prefer to see Liverpool win the PL or CL than England win something, as would most of our fans. Is this just us, or do you have a different view?
 

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paullfc said:
Are united fans hat bothered about England? Not tryin to cause an argument here club v country, but faced with a choice would u rather united win more trophies or england win a tournament?
Myself, I'd much prefer to see Liverpool win the PL or CL than England win something, as would most of our fans. Is this just us, or do you have a different view?
We had a thread on this a while back (Ill see if I can dig it up)
and most English people here said club before country, and they ALL moan
about how bad England are as well :D Im Irish myself as are a fair few on
this forum and a lot of us seem to have more pride in our country. If
Ireland can win a World Cup before I die, Ill be a VERY happy man.
 

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Jazz 16 said:
We had a thread on this a while back (Ill see if I can dig it up)
and most English people here said club before country, and they ALL moan
about how bad England are as well :D Im Irish myself as are a fair few on
this forum and a lot of us seem to have more pride in our country. If
Ireland can win a World Cup before I die, Ill be a VERY happy man.
It would be a Dream for Ireland to win the world cup, the country would come to a stand still, i have to say i would rather Ireland winning the world cup!
A country united with pride, everybody would be a fan. Old women at bingo saying "god didnt that Robbie keane score a gem to win the world cup"
haha:D

I love united. but Ireland winning the world cup is just a dream!
 

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if i had to pick my england team..

-----james (no one else)-------

wes------rio-----terry------cole-------

------------------beckham-----------------

-----young----------gerrard-----joe cole----

-----rooney-----owen or agbonlahor---------

having becks picking up the ball deep and giving it to young on the wing or joe cole will give you the pace to bring it up.. or he can send it long and let gabby's pace get it.. having gerrard and lampard is stupid.. out the 2 gerrard is more effective and in the middle with his passes will be brilliant.. owen can still score and you can not lose that touch.. he may lost his pace a bit but can still score and that is what we need.. a scorer.. no point of having passers like becks and gerrard if no one is there to finish them.. this is the formation we need
 

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england have a few problems. Firstly, they worry too much on systems...should it be 442, 451, 433...whats the point of any system if they do not have players who are free and technical enough to understand in modern football, systems or like guidlines, they are not rigid and people are free to roam and play as they wish if they feel it;ll be effective and use there initiative to take advantage of another teams error. England are soo rigid at times its a joke.

Secondly technically we are clearly inferior to many many teams and possibly from all the 'big' playing international teams, we are the most predictable/least technical team. Even when we keep the ball for long amounts of time, i can usually see where the next pass is going even before it is played. Now other teams with more technical players and better vision who play in the same systems but use them better because they are not rigid are less predictable in there passes and sometimes we see some amazing killer balls when one expects to to left, it'll go through the middle or to the right with amazing disguise....SO yes...lack of technical ability and predictability...

finally i believe we do not have that player who can change a game in one second, a real match winner or someone of ridicolous skills/dribbling ability who will alwys try something different. It may not always come off and the english media would be calling out all the 'end product' terms over a player like this but all the best teams have a player who stands out. England have Rooney who is has the potential to be something special but still has some way to go and the only other player who has some sort of technical ability and effectiveness is gerrard, but he is a box to box player in truth, not a silky midfielder who will pick out gaps in defenses and cause abit of majic and confuse opposition players. I never have been the biggest fan of joe cole though i do think he has improved i still do not think he is as good as the two i have just mentioned and i also think he can be very predictable at times, though he has come on abit.

I do think we have a good team though whos strenght and with some confidence could do well because or defense is amazing and we are a team who would be willing to work hard but we are not the most pleasing to the eye nor are we as naturally gifted as many other nations out there. BUT it does take more than just that to win things.

England will qualify for the world cup and we could do well in it imo.

pz
 

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the difference between england and croatia - simple - IVAN KLASNIC....IVAN KLASNIC on the one side and JAMIE CARRAGHER AND PAUL SCHOLES on the other... Klasnic is ready to sacrifice his haelth by playing with a transplanted kidney for Croatia,instead of saynig :No thanks, I'll focus on the club only in order to preserve my health, while Carragher refuses to play and Scholes says - "i never enjoyed it.not one bit "...it says it all really
 

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For those who still bother about England... :p :eek:

Spot on and a direct hit.


Macari: England stars over-indulged

NO hunger, no discipline, no fun and no perspective. That is why England have fallen by the international wayside, and could face more heartache against Croatia.

So says Lou Macari, who argues that our over-indulged, over-paid players are being out-fought by players from smaller, less prosperous countries, who are driven by an inner desire to better themselves........

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/s/1065994_macari_england_stars_overindulged
 
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