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Discussion Starter #1
Here is the top Top 30 European Average Attendance List (nicked off another forum).

Makes for interesting reading.
Take note of how many German teams are in it, including a couple of 2nd Bundesliga sides. Says something about the health of German football when compared to other leagues. Possibly something to do with reasonable ticket prices, terracing encouraged and the matchday experience not being diluted as it is being in other countries.

Quote:

1. 76,234 Real Madrid
2. 75,691 United
3. 72,510 Dortmund
4. 69,000 Bayern Munchen
5. 67,560 Barcelona
6. 61,274 Shalke 04
7. 60,070 Arsenal
8. 56,677 Celtic
9. 55,368 SV Hamburg
10. 52,601 Marseilles
11. 51,321 Mags
12. 50,447 Stuttgart
13. 49,143 Rangers
14. 49,125 Ajax
15. 48,324 Eintracht Frankfurt
16. 45,438 Hertha Berlin
17. 45,253 Atletico de Madrid
18. 44,618 Feyenoord
19. 43,741 Koln (*2) !!!
20. 43,532 Liverpool
21. 43,451 Nurnberg
22. 43,344 Sunderland
23. 42,126 Man City
24. 41,397 Chelsea
25. 40,427 Borrusia Monchengladbach
26. 40,308 Werder Bremen (*2) !!!
27. 40,233 Hannover
28. 40,029 Aston Villa
29. 39,553 Sevilla
30. 38,632 Porto

Also interesting is the complete abscence of Serie A sides.

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The Germans are hardcore about their football. Amazing fans that STAND
AND SING ALL game long. The FA should take note. They bought back in standing
areas for the hardcores if Im not mistaken, so they could sing, dance and do
what they like. Its a great idea and the stadiums are always rocking.
Its no surprise so many German teams are up there. They have some great
stadia as well, like we saw in the 2006 World Cup.
Surprised barca dont get a few more each week.
 

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Apparently Germany has the best attendance record of any European country.

They also have a cracking atmosphere at almost every match. No prawn sandwich brigades.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to market the Bundesliga with its unpronounceable names. so German teams cannot rake in TV money like the premier league and La Liga do.
 
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Also most German teams are member owned. In fact they have a 50%+1 rule, which says clubs must only be owned with the fans being the majority shareholders.
I'm almost certain that Hamburg have well over 50,000 members/owners of their club.
Fanatical supporters. Massive terrace area also drink while the game is on.

Dortmund is the 9th biggest city in Germany - equivalent to Leicester. It is in the heart of the Ruhr valley - a hard working class community, and traditionally, Germany's industrial heartland. The people are hard working, passionate (incredibly passionate) and pay a working man's price to support their team.

They sold their allocated 31,000 tickets within 75 minutes and had to turn down 181,000 additional applications for the tickets !!!
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One of the most loved AND hated teams in Germany is FC Schalke 04. Also knows as FC Scheisse for obvious reasons.

Now, their example might be taking fan power too far, but it is fascinating that the fans are so unified and have so much say. The fans actually determine ticket prices and have voted for price hikes in the past when the economy was doing well and brought it down when the economy was bad.

And inspite of this, they manage to challenge for the title every now and then. They came very close in the 06/07 season before losing the plot in the latter part of the season.

When the board was ****ing the fans off, they decided not to clap during a game even when a goal was scored. During another game, at a specific time in the match (i think 19 minutes and 04 seconds, 19:04 - the founding year of the club) the whole stadium turned it's back to the pitch in protest! - you gotta love that kind of fan unity!

You can bet your last dime the board is very mindful of the fans.
 

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SALFORD RED said:
Also interesting is the complete abscence of Serie A sides.

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Figures for 07/08
AC Milan 56.642
Internazionale 51.211
Napoli 40.780
Roma 37.276
Fiorentina 31.387
Palermo 25.541
Genoa 24.745
Sampdoria 21.888
Lazio 21.485
Juventus 20.930
Torino 19.226
Catania 17.606
Udinese 15.672
Parma 15.427
Reggina 13.147
Cagliari 12.259
Siena 10.351
Atalanta 10.112
Livorno 9.901
Empoli 8.005

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/current/aveita.htm
 
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spellbound said:
Figures for 07/08
AC Milan 56.642
Internazionale 51.211
Napoli 40.780
Roma 37.276
Fiorentina 31.387
Palermo 25.541
Genoa 24.745
Sampdoria 21.888
Lazio 21.485
Juventus 20.930
Torino 19.226
Catania 17.606
Udinese 15.672
Parma 15.427
Reggina 13.147
Cagliari 12.259
Siena 10.351
Atalanta 10.112
Livorno 9.901
Empoli 8.005

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/current/aveita.htm
Cheers for that mate, thought it was strange there were no Serie A
sides included in the list.
So..

AC Milan 56.642 ( 9th place )
Internazionale 51.211 ( 11th place )
Napoli 40.780 ( 27th place )

Should definatly be in the top 30.
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look how poor juventus is most championship sides better the attendance . they share the winter olympic stadium with torino at moment but the new stadium will still be smaller than almost all prem grounds ---- mad
 

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SALFORD RED said:
Also most German teams are member owned. In fact they have a 50%+1 rule, which says clubs must only be owned with the fans being the majority shareholders.
I'm almost certain that Hamburg have well over 50,000 members/owners of their club.
Fanatical supporters. Massive terrace area also drink while the game is on.

Dortmund is the 9th biggest city in Germany - equivalent to Leicester. It is in the heart of the Ruhr valley - a hard working class community, and traditionally, Germany's industrial heartland. The people are hard working, passionate (incredibly passionate) and pay a working man's price to support their team.

They sold their allocated 31,000 tickets within 75 minutes and had to turn down 181,000 additional applications for the tickets !!!
RedForceRising said:
One of the most loved AND hated teams in Germany is FC Schalke 04. Also knows as FC Scheisse for obvious reasons.

Now, their example might be taking fan power too far, but it is fascinating that the fans are so unified and have so much say. The fans actually determine ticket prices and have voted for price hikes in the past when the economy was doing well and brought it down when the economy was bad.

And inspite of this, they manage to challenge for the title every now and then. They came very close in the 06/07 season before losing the plot in the latter part of the season.

When the board was ****ing the fans off, they decided not to clap during a game even when a goal was scored. During another game, at a specific time in the match (i think 19 minutes and 04 seconds, 19:04 - the founding year of the club) the whole stadium turned it's back to the pitch in protest! - you gotta love that kind of fan unity!

You can bet your last dime the board is very mindful of the fans.
Both of these posts are very interesting, and sound great.

I actually think that German football is highly under-rated.

Yes, their club teams don't have the strength of other nations, such as England, Spain and Italy (although Italy are fading)

But the league is very competitive, and their are some very, very good players and some very good teams playing in Germany.

I would love to watch more of it, but thats not possible atm unfortunately.

Hopefully I'll be able to do it next season. ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #10
THE GREAT FOOTBALL EXODUS

SUPPORTERS: Fans feel priced out

Daily Express Saturday July 12,2008

By Adrian Lee

The money men are, it seems, taking over the game, leaving thousands of genuine supporters disenchanted and claiming the English game has sold its soul. Some fans of top teams are refusing to renew their season tickets because they cost far too much. They are turning their backs on the pampered stars and soaring prices of the Premier League and seeking their football thrills in continental Europe.

Two of the world's top teams play within an hour's drive of Jon Goulding's home in Cheshire. But when Saturday comes, the 38-year-old teacher shuns Manchester United and Liverpool, preferring to stand on the terraces at Nurem*berg, 500 miles away in the heart of Germany.

Nuremberg will start the coming season in the second tier of German football, having just been relegated. There are no world-famous stars in the team. But that will not stop Jon going on 10 weekend trips in the next 12 months. He is already checking budget airline timetables and brushing up on his German so he can sing along lustily with the terrace anthems.

Fans feel the soul of the game is being sold off

Soon he will be cheering on his team with a beer in his hand and a ticket costing less than £10 in his back pocket. “Not only is it much cheaper at Nuremberg but there's more atmosphere and passion,†says Jon. “All the grounds in Germany have terracing so you can stand and watch the game, just like the old days in England.â€

Beer at £1 a time is poured into plastic glasses from backpacks carried by salesmen or dispensed from
a miniature train that tours the perimeter of the pitch. A half-time bite might be German sausage or a generous serving of barbecued pork. There will not be a lukewarm pie or dubious burger in sight.

Jon, whose wife Angela was born in Germany, first saw a game there with his father-in-law. He became hooked, even founding a Nuremberg supporters' club for British fans. The constitution states that members must drink beer and eat bratwurst. Before each game the English fans proudly unfurl their Union flag bearing the Nuremberg club crest.

“I expected maybe half a dozen to join but we now have almost 100 fans who travel to games whenever they can,†he says. “Some have taken German courses. When we first took our flag I was a bit nervous but all the German supporters just started smiling and taking photos. Because we have kept going through thick and thin, they respect us. It has become a passion and Nuremberg is a beautiful city where you feel safe at night.â€

He usually flies out after work on a Friday and, occasionally accompanied by Angela, spends the weekend in Germany. “If you plan ahead you can get cheap flights, a decent hotel costs £40 a night for two and the standard of football isn't bad at all,†says Jon, who in England follows League Two club Port Vale (also relegated last season). “I used to go to Premier League games but it has become so corporate,†he adds. “There is a backlash against that.â€

He and his pals form a small part of a growing exodus to atmospheric, tightly packed grounds which fans say are reminiscent of English football in the Seventies and Eighties – minus the hooligans. Stuart Fuller, the author of a new book, A Fan's Guide: European Football Grounds, has bought a season ticket for the terraces at Brondby, one of the leading teams in Denmark. It cost him £72, compared with the £605 he has just forked out to follow West Ham in the Premier League next season.

“I thought long and hard before renewing my West Ham ticket,†says Stuart. “I've followed the team for 30 years but, like a lot of fans, I have become very disillusioned. It is all about money. I see players earning £50,000 a week coming out of nightclubs and driving flashy cars. They have no time for the fans.â€

His work takes him to Copenhagen, where he became a fan of Brondby after accompanying a colleague to a match. He says: “There was a tense, cracking atmosphere. Sometimes there might be only 7,000 fans but they generate a better atmosphere than 40,000 at a Premier League game or 90,000 at Wembley.â€

Stuart, from south-east London, has also travelled to matches in Sweden and Germany. “I like to see different places,†he explains. “Last season I also went to four games in four days in Istanbul.â€

European football is now more accessible, thanks to the rise of budget airlines and new routes. Stuart adds: “I can fly from Gatwick to Gothenburg for about £55 return and get a ticket for a few pounds. At West Ham, some seats now cost £70 each and the quality of football was awful last season. I can see the day when I only watch games in Europe.

“In England, the passionate fan is being priced out of the game. Watching football has become the equivalent of going to the theatre, with people picking and choosing different teams so they can see the best players.â€

Some clubs do offer special deals to attract fans or cut-price tickets for children but the top teams basically charge what they like. Recent figures estimated that watching a game at Chelsea, including ticket, transport, merchandise and refreshments, costs on average more than £100. The cheapest season ticket at Chelsea costs four times as much as at Spanish giants Barcelona. Since the launch of the Premier League in 1992, ticket prices overall have risen by 600 per cent.

Rich owners such as Roman Abramovich, who bought Chelsea for £150million, and Malcolm Glazer, who paid £790million for Manchester United, lavish fortunes on buying top players and pay them huge wages. But they also want to see a return for their investments.

Three of the world's five richest teams – Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal – play in the Premier League.
“Many fans do feel alienated,†agrees Kevin Miles of the Football Supporters' Federation. “The soul of the game is gradually being sold off. Clubs in England tend to be run as businesses now, whereas in Europe many are run for the fans.

“It's not just the cost – England is the only country in Europe where all-seater grounds are compulsory and there is a feeling that has killed the atmosphere. In Germany, it's the other way round – the clubs must have a terraced area so fans can stand. English fans who attend games there come back wildly enthused. It is all about the whole experience and atmosphere.â€

Last season Sir Alex Ferguson, manager of Manchester United, bemoaned the lack of atmosphere inside Old Trafford, while former United skipper Roy Keane once attacked the “prawn sandwich brigade†– wealthy fans who enjoy the corporate hospitality but have little affinity with the game.

Football fans traditionally came from the working classes but the game has now become a middle-class pastime. Spectators are getting older, suggesting that young supporters, who tend to generate more atmosphere, are being priced out.

The Football Supporters' Federation is campaigning for the reintroduction of standing areas but for many fans it will be too late. David Brown, 45, who works in PR in London, has chosen to follow football all over Holland. “I was brought up on the great Ajax teams of the Seventies and Amsterdam is one of my favourite cities, so it all started from that,†he says.

“The Premier League is too expensive and too predictable and all the atmosphere has been driven from the grounds. In Holland, the grounds are much smaller but they have DJs who pump up the football anthems and really get the crowd going before the game.

“The stadium at Eindhoven, my favourite, only holds 32,000 but the atmosphere is cracking. Everyone says the Premier League is the best in the world but I've seen some brilliant matches in Holland.

“I enjoy visiting new grounds, meeting the fans and hearing their songs. I make a weekend of it but the football is the highlight. I can't see any reason to go to Premier League games now.â€

A recent survey by Virgin Money showed that one in seven fans of Premier League teams will not be renewing their season tickets for the new season, which kicks off on August 16. If you're wondering where they will go instead, just check out the colourful array of football scarves in the departure lounge of your nearest airport. Auf wiedersehen Frank, Cristiano and co.
 

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haha we have our stadium full
while *** realmadrid dont haha haha
they only have 76 of 82 possible
but we get about 100% attendance
 
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