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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #21
whats better... a bourbon, or a custard cream?
you're missing the point...it's not about who's more succesfull, it's about tactics...it's like saying , fat ronaldo was a great striker but he isn't excactly great with playing his head..and then you all go "What ???? He's amoung the greatest that ever lived !!!! "...so ? he was not as good with his head as inzaghi or bierhoff were..it's one aspect of a play required to succeed..

just like tactics is only one apsect of a managerial bussines...you can be the greatest tactitian in the world with crappy players and you won't achieve anything
 

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beautiful, dirty, rich...
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you can pedantically reduce everthing in life down to the n'th degree... but 1. is it worth it?, and 2. whats the point?

and ps. its a custard cream... but i cartainly aint gonna hate on the bourbon, because it is an epic biscuit that fully deserves its praise and success
 

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oh yeah, let us assume that we would have won it had mourinho stayed...and you were criticizing me for saying that mourinho would win the CL with real and yet you're the one who can forsee the future and I'm not ;)
Leagues are usually won by the team with the most quality over period of time compared to the champions league where luck plays a major factor. That is how I can confidently say we would have taken the league that season, mourinho couldnt cope with the pressure and started to lose the plot once we got the upper hand


hmm, you're talking about luck in winning the CL ? we had a tramendeus dose of luck BOTH TIMES when Fergie won it . Beginning from the quarterfinals with Inter back in 99, when Schemichel brought Zamorano down for a CLEAR PENALTY while they were leading, to that remarkable night against Juve away, that happens once in a generation, and finally, we weren't excactly the better team in the final. Bayern struck the woodwork and had plenty more chances to score, but who remembers that?
Right thats one champions league campaign where admittedly luck played a major role in winning. What about the other three finals we reached since then? When we had to beat roma, barcalona, , arsenal, lyon and inter along the way during those two campaigns?

And the last time we won, we won it due to a Terry slip, so we're the last ones who should be talking about luck
Like I said above we still had to play tough teams and get the tactics right overcoming the likes of barcalona,roma and lyon where luck played no part. You think just any old standard tactician would be able to beat those sides?

Ranieri did lay some foundations, but Mourinho brought Carvalho, Drogba, Cole, Cech and some new players that proved to be vital for their play. Mourinho brought the spine of today's Chelsea
.No your wrong. Ranieri brought in Bridge, Joe Cole, Lampard, Scott Parker,Robben, Czech, ,Duff, Makelel and johnson- All players that were key figures in helping them win the title. Mourinho bought in drogba Paulo FereiraRicardo Carvalho, Assier Del Horno Tiago Michael Essien, Diarra Shaun Wright-Phillips and Mateja Kezman. Half of those players were flops. Mourinho didnt have to build a team from scratch it was already championship quality before he arrived
 

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Over the course of time, like a season or a few seasons its very hard for anyone to compete with Fergie. On a one off game I think Jose is better, especially now because Fergie seems more interested in rotating mediocre players than a strong, settled team.
One off games mean nothing. Benetiz has a better head to head record over Mourinho is he a better manager would you now say? It's backwards thinking of the highest order and to be honest this thread is a disgrace and shows how blinded some supporters truly are.
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #25
you can pedantically reduce everthing in life down to the n'th degree... but 1. is it worth it?, and 2. whats the point?

and ps. its a custard cream... but i cartainly aint gonna hate on the bourbon, because it is an epic biscuit that fully deserves its praise and success
who said you need to hate anything...you need to give credit where due and you can talk about disadvantages where due
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #26
One off games mean nothing. Benetiz has a better head to head record over Mourinho is he a better manager would you now say? It's backwards thinking of the highest order and to be honest this thread is a disgrace and shows how blinded some supporters truly are.
seriosuly man, are you stupid or blind ?

who talks about being a better manager ?!that's the problem with people on here ! we're simply discussing about one aspect of the game not by being better managers ...

until you all realize that, we'll be having this conversation for a long long time..that's why we're debating this long
 

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Mourinho is miles ahead of SAF in terms of tactics and is close behind him in terms of man management. Records and examples of that are everywhere for those who want to see.

Who's the better manager, I can't say - statistics always say just a part of the story and according to them Ferguson goes ahead of Mourinho.

People say, Mourinho is successfull only with rich clubs. While part of it may be true (exception - Porto), since when Manchester United are a poor club?

In the many years before Abramovich took over at Chelsea, it was Manchester United who were playing the "big spenders" in the EPL ...SAF's history of success is filled of spending big, or at least more than his rivals, so why blame Mourinho? The Portuguese created three amazing teams in three different clubs - Porto, Chelsea and Inter, who had/will have the backbone of these squads for years!!

I personally don't care much to be honest, but it is just funny how some people like to go to the extreme.. At the least, if you say SAF is the better manager of the two, one has to remember - for the young manager he is, Mourinho is just a tiny bit behind Ferguson in terms of success. I don't recollect SAF having really important trophy* that Mourinho doesn't.

Jose will only be closing that quantity gap in terms of competitions won as well - as the quality gap has already been closed!

*An exception may be the World Club Championship, depending on how people see the competition.
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #28
L



Right thats one champions league campaign where admittedly luck played a major role in winning. What about the other three finals we reached since then? When we had to beat roma, barcalona, , arsenal, lyon and inter along the way during those two campaigns?

it's 2 finals since then mate...we won one luckily and were beaten to death in the other



Like I said above we still had to play tough teams and get the tactics right overcoming the likes of barcalona,roma and lyon where luck played no part. You think just any old standard tactician would be able to beat those sides?

erm yes... lyon and roma are not excactly the world beaters..plus their roster was far weaker than ours...


.No your wrong. Ranieri brought in Bridge, Joe Cole, Lampard, Scott Parker,Robben, Czech, ,Duff, Makelel and johnson- All players that were key figures in helping them win the title. Mourinho bought in drogba Paulo FereiraRicardo Carvalho, Assier Del Horno Tiago Michael Essien, Diarra Shaun Wright-Phillips and Mateja Kezman. Half of those players were flops. Mourinho didnt have to build a team from scratch it was already championship quality before he arrived
lol, you didn't argue with what I said - Mourinho brought the spine of the team in Cech,Carvalho,Ashley Cole,Essien and Drogba...completely different team...like I said, Ranieri did lay some of the foundations but the likes of Cech,Cashley,Drogba and Essien made the difference
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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11,077 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
Mourinho is miles ahead of SAF in terms of tactics and is close behind him in terms of man management. Records and examples of that are everywhere for those who want to see.

Who's the better manager, I can't say - statistics always say just a part of the story and according to them Ferguson goes ahead of Mourinho.
what do you mean ? the stats in on jose's side
 

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beautiful, dirty, rich...
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i depends what you definition of 'tactics' are though... 99% of people just presume tactics are formation based, whereas i would suggest that tactics would include such minor things as players diets, and what time they go to bed

all i can say is that the very endgame of your complete tactical approach is your eventual success... and with fergie and success, i dont even need to go there
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #31
i depends what you definition of 'tactics' are though... 99% of people just presume tactics are formation based, whereas i would suggest that tactics would include such minor things as players diets, and what time they go to bed
all i can say is that the very endgame of your complete tactical approach is your eventual success... and with fergie and success, i dont even need to go there
that's more of managing...man managers have the last say in players lifes, not tactics
 

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One off games mean nothing. Benetiz has a better head to head record over Mourinho is he a better manager would you now say? It's backwards thinking of the highest order and to be honest this thread is a disgrace and shows how blinded some supporters truly are.
Of course one off games mean something, we have loads of big games and some cup finals throughout the season. The margin for success and failure is so tight we could have won both the league and the champions league last year if we were only slightly better in big games.

Blind supporters!? You must be blind because Jose is one of the best managers of his generation, its a disgrace not to compare him to Fergie. I want him as our next manager.
 

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its tactics to me... its a tactical approach, its planning, its logistics...
thats man management mate.

tactics are formations, set pieces play etc.

like wise, you dont call your muscles in your body technique or the way you are able to do things with any part of your feet physical.
 

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beautiful, dirty, rich...
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thats man management mate.

tactics are formations, set pieces play etc.

like wise, you dont call your muscles in your body technique or the way you are able to do things with any part of your feet physical.
man management is a tactic im afriad... your refering to tactics in the LITERAL sense, whereas im referring to tactics as a complete approach to success

ps. if you read one of my earlier posts, you will see that i made a metephorical comparison about comparing successful manager A to successful manager B as with comparing bourbons to custard creams... there is no point!
 

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man management is a tactic im afriad... your refering to tactics in the LITERAL sense, whereas im referring to tactics as a complete approach to success

ps. if you read one of my earlier posts, you will see that i made a metephorical comparison about comparing successful manager A to successful manager B as with comparing bourbons to custard creams... there is no point!
first of all. the tactics we are referring to is the one used on the pitch. not the one you are mentioning.

second, we arent comparing which manager is more successful, we are comparing who is the better tactician( again, the tactics we are referring to is the one used on the pitch.)
 
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