Manchester United Talk banner

441 - 450 of 450 Posts
Joined
·
7,375 Posts
But Anderson was shikt against Barca in 09, didn't you just say that's why you wouldn't have played Giggs? Fletcher, the same fletcher that's been missing for a month or two with an illness and lost an awful lot of weight and only played one game before the final? Rooney was playing behind the striker like he was all season but he dropped deeper then usual trying to get the ball because the midfiled couldn't hold onto the ball for him to get it! We opted for a 4-4-1-1 more or less or 4-5-1 so stop your bitching! Chiciaritho did't get the service needed, he was in no way at fault for us losing the champions league and anybody who says that is an idiot and anybody who agrees is an even bigger idiot

Anderson is young in constrast with Giggs. I explained you in previous posts about Rooney. That was in no way a 4-5-1 nor did we have the players on the pitch to play 4-5-1. Also you just don't seem to understand in what way he meant that he lost us the Champions League. He wasn't at fault. His incredible performances made Sir Alex to opt for 4-4-2 instead of 4-5-1. Do you get it now? Also calling anyone who disagrees with you or has another opinion, an idiot, harldly helps you proving a point if there is one.


Barcelona are about a thousand times better than Schalke in every department.

Well we all know that. So shouldn't we change something in the starting eleven against Barcelona?


:rolleyes:

Yes. It was our strongest team for playing in Europe. We pissed all over Schalke and beat Chelsea comfortably. When considering a team for the next round you choose what has done well for you and has suited your players in the past. You don't just try something new and in playing 4-5-1 end up most likely leaving your best player isolated. That way of playing has served us well for a while now. You don't just change it before a Champions League Final. That would likely have caused more problems than it would have solved and would have probably had the majority saying that Fergie's lost the plot by not sticking with what is tried and trusted.

That's before even mentioning the fact that if playing 4-5-1 was the answer to stopping Barca having the ball then everybody would play like that against them and they wouldn't dominate possession like they do against EVERY TEAM THEY PLAY. You could play eight men in midfield and they will still likely dominate possession. Why? Because when they have it they kjnow how to keep it. The way to counteracting that is to have player who have more defensive ability in midfield and know how to break up their passing more often or players who are equally capable and confident in possession as Iniesta and Xavi.
With your logic, teams that have been successful with one formation should not change it throughout the season. Also wouldn't playing more bodies in the midfield cause disruption in Barcelona's passing? Especially if we played Park and Anderson and Fletcher and Carrick in a 4-5-1 formation?
 

·
In Jones we trust
Joined
·
8,412 Posts
With your logic, teams that have been successful with one formation should not change it throughout the season.
Yes, you can change your formation. But you would have to be crazy to change it in a Champions League Final. The original formation has got you to the final and the players are comfortable with it. So why change it?


Also wouldn't playing more bodies in the midfield cause disruption in Barcelona's passing?
Not necessarily. Those players could just be scurrying around trying to regain possession

Especially if we played Park and Anderson and Fletcher and Carrick in a 4-5-1 formation?
Then you'd have had virtually zero threat at the top end with Rooney getting isolated and coming deep for the ball. Having an extra man in midfield really wouldn't have helped us as much as you seem to think. It's easy to think that simply havign an extra man there will mean that you'll automatically get more of the balls. It doesn't work like that and we have completely the wrong set of players to combat a midfield as strong and talented as Barca's anyway.

Since Hargreaves has been out we don't really have one player who could be defined as a defensive midfielder in our squad. Sure, we have players who we can use every now and then as a stop-gap. But not a true defensive midfielder who can break up the opposition play and provide a determined and physical presence ala Keane, Vieira, De Rossi, Gattuso et al. I'm sorry, but not having a true defensive midfielder at your disposal and trying to overcome Barcelona in the centre of the park is almost a guaranteed fail. When Inter managed to get the better of them last season they had about three defensive midfieders playing.

Defensive midfielders are CRUCIAL to having any chance of stopping Barca. This is why Mourinho used Pepe in the holding midfield role when Madrid played them in the CL. It didn't work on that occasion but it has before and it's clear to see where he viewed the best chance of stopping the threat of Barca.
 
Joined
·
7,375 Posts
Yes, you can change your formation. But you would have to be crazy to change it in a Champions League Final. The original formation has got you to the final and the players are comfortable with it. So why change it?




Not necessarily. Those players could just be scurrying around trying to regain possession



Then you'd have had virtually zero threat at the top end with Rooney getting isolated and coming deep for the ball. Having an extra man in midfield really wouldn't have helped us as much as you seem to think. It's easy to think that simply havign an extra man there will mean that you'll automatically get more of the balls. It doesn't work like that and we have completely the wrong set of players to combat a midfield as strong and talented as Barca's anyway.

Since Hargreaves has been out we don't really have one player who could be defined as a defensive midfielder in our squad. Sure, we have players who we can use every now and then as a stop-gap. But not a true defensive midfielder who can break up the opposition play and provide a determined and physical presence ala Keane, Vieira, De Rossi, Gattuso et al. I'm sorry, but not having a true defensive midfielder at your disposal and trying to overcome Barcelona in the centre of the park is almost a guaranteed fail. When Inter managed to get the better of them last season they had about three defensive midfieders playing.

Defensive midfielders are CRUCIAL to having any chance of stopping Barca. This is why Mourinho used Pepe in the holding midfield role when Madrid played them in the CL. It didn't work on that occasion but it has before and it's clear to see where he viewed the best chance of stopping the threat of Barca.
We might not have the defensive midfielders to break their play but then again, Giggs and Carrick? Meh...
 

·
In Jones we trust
Joined
·
8,412 Posts
We might not have the defensive midfielders to break their play but then again, Giggs and Carrick? Meh...
Giggs and Carrick are exactly the players that you don't want there. Neither are tacklers or relish a comabative environment in midfield and Carrick inparticular doesn't like being put under pressure when on the ball. I had serious reservations about Carrick playing at Wembley but there were no real alternatives. I genuinely belive that Fletcher wasn't up to speed enough to be ready for the match. Giggs and Carrick was about the only real choice we could have made. An argument could have been made for Anderson perhaps. But he hasn't really featured in big games this season.
 

·
Proto-Hipster
Joined
·
46,959 Posts
Giggs and Carrick are exactly the players that you don't want there. Neither are tacklers or relish a comabative environment in midfield and Carrick inparticular doesn't like being put under pressure when on the ball. I had serious reservations about Carrick playing at Wembley but there were no real alternatives. I genuinely belive that Fletcher wasn't up to speed enough to be ready for the match. Giggs and Carrick was about the only real choice we could have made. An argument could have been made for Anderson perhaps. But he hasn't really featured in big games this season.
Started against Arsenal both times and started against City at OT too. IIRC.
 

·
Saviour of the Forum
Joined
·
12,868 Posts
Started against Arsenal both times and started against City at OT too. IIRC.
Hardly matters, far too much leg work needs to be done in a midfield against Barca than against Shitty or Arse or anyone else for that matter, for a Giggs/Carrick combo.
 

·
Saviour of the Forum
Joined
·
12,868 Posts
Anderson.
Yeah Anderson, it's mostly irrelevant who he has or hasn't played against this season, the job in midfield against Barca is too much for a Giggs/Carrick combo. If he had only played against Bolton, Blackpool and Everton, if he was fully ft he should of played because he was the right man for the job. Just like Pep had no problems bringing in Abidal after only a few games because he was the right man for the job.
 
Joined
·
7,375 Posts
Giggs and Carrick are exactly the players that you don't want there. Neither are tacklers or relish a comabative environment in midfield and Carrick inparticular doesn't like being put under pressure when on the ball. I had serious reservations about Carrick playing at Wembley but there were no real alternatives. I genuinely belive that Fletcher wasn't up to speed enough to be ready for the match. Giggs and Carrick was about the only real choice we could have made. An argument could have been made for Anderson perhaps. But he hasn't really featured in big games this season.
Hardly matters, far too much leg work needs to be done in a midfield against Barca than against Shitty or Arse or anyone else for that matter, for a Giggs/Carrick combo.
Yeah Anderson, it's mostly irrelevant who he has or hasn't played against this season, the job in midfield against Barca is too much for a Giggs/Carrick combo. If he had only played against Bolton, Blackpool and Everton, if he was fully ft he should of played because he was the right man for the job. Just like Pep had no problems bringing in Abidal after only a few games because he was the right man for the job.
What Flash said.
 
441 - 450 of 450 Posts
Top