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Are You In Favour Of The 'Six Plus Five' Proposal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 36 60.0%
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Yes, because:

1) It makes the national team stronger as homegrown players are given more opportunities. Competition on Euro and WC would rise. For example, Russia did qualify for Euro, England did not. We have such rule for several years, you don't
2) Any club would then choose thoroughly who are they buying outside their country, choosing only the best foreigners
3) Clubs would invest more money on football schools and young talents but not on overrated overseas stars
4) That's not all ;-)
 

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Keano! said:
This idea cold actually ruin the teams outside the big 4.

The big clubs want the best players and right now the majority of them aren't
English.

Therefore, this new idea comes in and they find that they need a player for a
certain position. Take Micah Richards at Citeh. United want a solid right back and
they can't look overseas because they already have their allowed quota on the
field.

So what do they do? They look in England for English talent, find it and buy the
player leaving the club with money for players.

Now, the big club has their player and they're happy......

....however, the small club is left with 20M and they want to buy a replacement
right back, and this is where the problem occurs. They will look abroad but all
the quality players are either at too high a price, happy where they are or aren't
interested in signing for a club outside the Champions League set up....

.....So, the small club are left back looking in England where all the quality English
players are now suddenly on the move to United, Chelsea, Arsenal and 'pile,
leaving the smaller clubs with incredibly scarce sources and the inability to succeed.

Also, this would more then likely guarantee that we would never see an all
English final again as Spain and Italy would overtake England and begin to
dominate.

If this was to all happen, players like,

  • Andy Johnson
  • Ashley Young
  • David James
  • Jermain Defoe
  • Dean Ashton
  • Peter Crouch
  • Gareth Barry
  • Stewart Downing
  • Aaron Ramsey
  • Micah Richards
  • Aaron Lennon
  • David Bently


and I could go on, will all be "forced" to leave their respected clubs as the bigger
clubs would swoop in leaving an offer both club and player can't refuse.

People complain that the league is only between the top four and the rest have
no chance, well, this idea certainly isn't going to help that and to me, is going to
make the problem 10 times worse.



Bit of a mouthful, eh?






But seriously, is this a proposal which could destroy the Barclays Premier League
and the smaller clubs a good idea?


Views?

what a load of nonesense .its obvious the big clubs will buy the quality english players this has happened for the last 20 years or more.
but when the small clubs are left with the money instead of buying foreign players they will then progress with young british lads and our national sides would benifit greatly.
and if spain and italy have got the same rules they will fare worst than british clubs ,most big sides over there are full of south american players.
20 years ago scotland was producing excellent players but since their league has been over run by very poor quality foreigners they have hardly produced a decent player.
englands national side has also gone to pot over the last 10 years ,i believe poor non british players are a factor in this.i reckon there are at least a couple of hundred foreign players in the premeirship only about 30 are world class !thats my point.
 

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this is an absolutely ridiculous idea and shows how Blatter and the rest of these clowns in Fifa are out of touch with the game.united should be in the front line with arsenal against such nnosense.Not that they will have to fight much as this is against all eu employment rules about freedom of movement and non discrimination.

firstly and most importantly it will harm united. Look at 1994 when we had arguably our greatest team having to restrict the number of non English players resulting in our complete capitulation against barcelona.

secondly the premiership boasts the four strongest teams in europe and one of the most exciting leagues in europe by attracting the best players from the entire world of football. This competition should bring the cream to the top in terms of english talent as if to be the best you compete the best.its the same in any walk of life that if you don't open the market up you are reduced to perpetual mediocrity.

thirdly its not as if the national teams are any better or worse than before. England failed to qualify in 1974 ,1978,1994 and the euros of 1980 and 1984 and performed miserably in 1988 when the vast majority of players in the top division were english. England in fairness have been badly managed the last 8 years and that is the primary reason for their shortcomings at international level.

This little englander argument endorsed by Mr delusional himself Steven gerrard is silly as it is narrow minded. Maybe the fault lies with society generally for the paucity of british /irish players conming through as Kids nowadays dont possess the same hunger and more interested in nintendo and video games instead of exercising and playing the sport we know and love.
 

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thedude said:
Just a quick question.

In the EPL, would players from Scotland, Wales and Ireland be considered "foreign"?
as far as I know mate yes as when they applied a similar rule in the early 1990's yes they were considered foreign therefore in the aformentioned 1994 game against Barca both Giggs and keane were ineligible to play.this rule is mind boggling as it will prove to be illegal:mad:
 

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This is not a ideal solution for football but a step in the right way.

I would much rather see a salary cap to stop this madness where players can strike themselves out of a contract or to an improved contract.

But limiting foregin players in each league will stop the looting on young africans for example. As it is now too many children are a victim of slave trade because of their dream of making it to be a name.
 

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Blatter's 6-5 plan leaves Premier League in fear of fudged quotas

the independent
By Nick Harris, Saturday, 31 May 2008


As Fifa's president, Sepp Blatter, stayed on a collision course yesterday with the European Union over quotas in football, there were fears within the Premier League that a fudged compromise to limit foreign players might create more problems than it solves.

"At the extreme end of things, we might end up with a scenario where, actually, greater numbers of players, kids basically, are being moved between countries and trafficked among clubs to get around restrictions," a source said.

That "counter-productive" result might happen if Blatter fails in his attempt to impose a nationality-based quota on clubs – his first-choice plan – and instead adopts a quota system currently used by Uefa, not based on nationality, which it imposes, quite legally, at domestic level in all leagues.

Uefa's quota system is based on "home-reared" players, and has already been in place for Uefa tournaments since 2006.

When it started – as the so-called 2+2 rule – clubs' 25-man squads needed to include at least two players trained by that club for at least three years between the age of 15 and 21, plus two more trained within the same national association. By 2008-09, Uefa's rule for Uefa competitions will be 4+4. Crucially, however, these rules are not based on nationality. If Arsenal, for example, recruit Spanish youngsters and train them, they are "home-reared" for Uefa purposes. Cesc Fabregas counts as home-reared.

For now, Uefa's rules apply only to the Uefa Cup and Champions League, but if Blatter fails to impose his own 6+5 plan on world football – which would restrict clubs to a maximum of five foreigners, based purely and solely on nationality – his logical next step will be to take a version of Uefa's plan and impose that on all domestic leagues instead.

The Premier League and its 20 member clubs, especially the "big four" are opposed to Blatter's 6+5, believing it is illegal as well as counter-productive. It is understood they would not be so opposed to a version of Uefa's quota system. "Actually, it wouldn't make a lot of difference to us." one source said.

Another expressed concerns, however, "that it would be essentially an invitation to exacerbate a problem we already have. Any quota will force up the prices of English players, placing even more emphasis on going overseas. And if you can fill your academy with 'home-grown' foreign players within the rules, it'll only happen more frequently."

At Fifa's congress in Sydney yesterday, Blatter received huge backing – 155 votes to five – to explore further his 6+5 plan.

"It was an overwhelming majority, overwhelming support," he said. "I am sure it will be done, I am very confident about it."

In a curious sideshow, the Football Association, opposed in principle to quotas, voted with Blatter having been mandated by the FA Board to vote against. Conspiracy theorists will suggest Brian Barwick wanted to keep Blatter onside for England's 2018 World Cup bid. Pragmatists at Soho Square argue Barwick was not voting for quotas, merely a harmless exploration that probably will not lead anywhere near their implementation.

Blatter faces an uphill struggle in the face of all evidence, and multiple warnings from the European Commission that his plan contravenes EU law, yet he still seems to believe he can force a change in legislation to make it happen.

An EC spokesman could not have been clearer than when saying: "[The 6+5 rule] would be direct discrimination on the basis of nationality, which is unacceptable. It's a non-starter. Professional football players are workers, therefore the principle of non-discrimination and the right to free movement apply to them. If EU member states allowed the application of the 6+5 rule, they would be in breach of EU law and players who are discriminated against could take the member states to court, and they would win."

Yet Blatter, who does not seem to grasp that laws apply to Fifa and himself, said: "Speaking about it is illegal? For whom? For when? If there is a law, a law can be amended. I have already a meeting planned with the speaker of the European Parliament on 5 June in Brussels, as he said, to explore now the ways [forward].

"If he says to explore the ways, it's not to say 'stop it', so you see we're on the right track."

Blatter has been encouraged by support from such notables as Franz Beckenbauer, who is now the chairman of Fifa's football committee, and Michel Platini, the head of Uefa. Both those senior figures are among many who acknowledge that more could and should be done to nurture players and improve training in all countries.

They also acknowledge that some of the richest clubs can "stockpile" the best players, and that this is leading to a decline in competitive balance, but they also know that quotas based solely on passports cannot be imposed within the EU. Hence Uefa's own quota system, for all its failings, including the possibility that if and when if it is rolled out across domestic leagues, trafficking in children will increase.

Platini says he fully supports Blatter's aims. "It [quotas] is a thorny issue. Europe is not in a comfortable position, but we will do all we can to help the Fifa president reach this objective," he said.

Why 6+5 could equal trouble: How the Premier League teams add up

Fifa's definition of the proposed 6+5 rule: "At the beginning of each match, each club must field at least six players eligible to play for the national team of the country of the club. However, there is no restriction on the number of [foreign] players under contract with a club, nor on [nationality of substitutes], so potentially you could have "3+8" at the end of a match."

*Fifa's dream timetable to implementation: 2010-11 season: 4+7 (maximum of seven foreign players in starting XI).

2011-12 season: 5+6 (maximum of six foreign players in XI).

2012-13 season: 6+5 implemented in full.

If 6+5 had been in place on the last day of the 2007-08 Premier League season, here is how each club would have fared:

*Arsenal
FAILED VERY BADLY Only Theo Walcott was English. Five Englishmen short.

*Aston Villa
PASSED Six English players started: Carson, Knight, Reo-Coker, Barry, Young and Agbonlahor.

*Birmingham
FAILED. Only three English-qualified players started: Ridgewell, Murphy and Muamba. Three short.

*Blackburn
FAILED Only three English players started: Warnock, Bentley and Roberts. Three short.

*Bolton
PASSED Six English players started: Cahill, Samuel, Davies, McCann, Nolan and Taylor.

*Chelsea
FAILED Only four English players started: Terry, A Cole, Lampard, J Cole. Two short.

*Derby
FAILED Only three English players started: Mears, Moore and Jones. Three short.

*Everton
FAILED. Only four English players started: Neville, Jagielka, Lescott and Osman. Two short.

*Fulham
FAILED Only three English players started: Konchesky, Murphy and Bullard. Three short.

*Liverpool
FAILED BADLY Only two English players started: Carragher and Gerrard. Four short.

*Manchester City
FAILED BADLY Only two English players started: Ball and Vassell. Four short.

*Manchester United
JUST FAILED Five English players started: Brown, Ferdinand, Scholes, Carrick and Rooney. One short.

*Middlesbrough
FAILED Only four English players started: Young, Riggott, Wheater and Downing. Two short.

*Newcastle
PASSED Six English players started: Harper, Taylor, Butt, Smith, Owen and Carroll.

*Portsmouth
FAILED Only three English players started: Ashdown, Johnson and Defoe. Three short.

*Reading
JUST FAILED Five English players started: Duberry, Shorey, Harper, Lita and Kitson. One short.

*Sunderland
FAILED Only three English players started: Whitehead, Nosworthy and Leadbitter. Three short.

*Tottenham
FAILED Only four English players started: Dawson, Woodgate, Jenas and O'Hara. Two short.

*West Ham
PASSED WITH FLYING COLOURS Seven English players started: Green, Tomkins, Ferdinand, Noble, Parker, Zamora and Ashton.

*Wigan
JUST FAILED Five English players started: Kirkland, Bramble, Brown, M Bent and Heskey. One short.
 

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Zuco asked in The News Room, now closed, if this was illegal under Euro law.

My reply:

Sort of. Europe claim footballers havesame rights as any other "worker". But this to my way of thinking is different.

As a direct result on unrestricted foreign work forces migrating to our Premier League, national teams are being starved of new talent, home grown youngsters, unless exceptional, have no chance of playing football in the top levels, or even some of the football league.

The Rooneys, Gerrards, Giggs, Fletchers etc of this world are becoming rarer and rarer. Now its Santos de la Brasilia, De la Espanyol, Jose Portuguese and Ivan the Italian!!

I am in favour of these restrictions, it can only be good for the game and for english talent etc. It will also encourage clubs to scout more at home, instead of on the internet.
 

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this move will increase the already ridiculous prices of english players.
at the same time, think we are goin to suffer somehow as when we are 1 englishman short for any particular match, we have no choice but to pick players from the reserve side and throw them into the action where the difference in standards are very huge between the premierleague and the reserve league. most english clubs will suffer from this rule.
bad idea :(
 

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I'm more interested in the motivations behind this rule.

Is the idea supposed to be that if English Clubs have more English players then the national team will do better?

They won't. England has plenty of quality players It's just that none of them play with heart for their country.

With notable exceptions of David Beckham, Owen Hargreaves & formerly Paul Scholes no English players seem happy in their white shirts.

I don't blame them, it's hard to be hungry for sucess when you know anything other than total victory will see the English media

call you every foul name under the sun and then label you a disappointment. Then you get abused by your own fans and finally

you get derided by other countries, the coach get's sacked and joins FC Twente. Where's the motivation to fight for that?

Or maybe the idea is to stop English clubs from dominating. That would probably work but with all respect, what's in it for the Poms? :)
 

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should this be used next season, and yes I know its proposed from 2012/2013, what would our line up be?

Current

Van Der Sar •
Brown
Vidic •
Ferdinand
Evra •
Ronaldo •
Scholes
Carrick
Anderson •
Rooney
Tevez •



So we're not actually that bad off. Fergie could sign a new midfielder and an attacker, yet we can still keep the bones of our team.

Still not in favour of it,but this eases my mind slightly...,
 

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The likes of Arsenal's youth system wont be overly hurt as they tend to have these players at a v young age, if you look at their academy on their website most of the players are foreign,

Having read that I'm not as worried as I was as I thought it was 100% that you had to be an English citizen.. mainly because Ireland depends on English football to produce our players!
 

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it does help england's cause i guess, having a bigger pool of top class players. but true, english players doesnt care much about the pride of playing for their national team.
 

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Keano! said:
Are the FA only agreeing with this so they dont upset FIFA and are still mates so they can host the World Cup?
Yes. I would say so.

But this is a ridiculous idea. The only reason its being discussed is because there was an all-English CL final. Where was the discussion when there was an all-Italian CL final?

I've continually said English players don't get the opportunity to play for the bigger clubs because they are not good enough. Its got nothing to do with too many foreigners or the like. If they are good enough, they will get the chance.

Also, I agree entirley with Keano! with his scenario.

This is nothing more than stupidity and will never come into force (and also because of the fact its illegal!)
 

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doing this will basically surrender our force in europe, spain or italy will be the dominant nation once again and that would be very frustrating, as for the england national team, imo it's down to motivation not enough of them care enough for the cause, from the other nights friendly imo the only one who really bust a gut was hargreaves, yes rooney and possibly gerrard worked hard aswell as rio but it comes down to really wanting it as we have the talent, and i would rather a successful united team than a successful england team any day :)
 
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