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I dont know about you but as i found myself moaning about our 3-0 away champions league win , i started to think ive been spoiled .

if you said to me in say 88-89 that we would even make the european cup i would have been over the moon .

fast forward twenty years and im unexcited by it .

the more glory we get the more we need to please me .

a season now where we just won an f.a cup would be seen as a poor one .

i remember as a 10/11 year old the massive grief at losing to southampton then beating looserpool in an f.a cup bought a huge high .

is it like the druggie who starts of on puff twice a month and ends up mugging grannies for the heroin to keep them going ?

i sometimes yearn for a relegation battle to spice things up !!!!

still when fergie goes maybe fa cup win will become big deal again .
 

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Your spot on there haggler. We sign a new player these days and everyone wants to jump on his back before he's even broke sweat. We also seem to have attracted a lot of supporters these days who continually question the players Fergy buys and the tactics he employs. Sad but true.
 

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I agree 100% mate. I think all the people getting on Berbatov's are disgraceful. As for being spoiled im not sure, i think it comes with glory. Just as glory hunters come with glory. I try to not be spoiled but Utd have high expectations these days. In a way i wouldn't mind being relegated. At least it would separate all the real supporters and the glory hunters.
 
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Bloody hell a thread where i 100% agree with the first 3 posters.

Cas i know exactly what you mean about relegation, i've said the same myself for a couple of years now.

manc in oz, i too am sick of the "fans" who jump on players backs without giving them a chance and question Fergies every decision.

Hags, i couldn't agree more with your every word if i had written in myself.

is it like the druggie who starts of on puff twice a month and ends up mugging grannies for the heroin to keep them going ?

The answer to that is...Yes..for a hell of a lot of our support.

But then there are some who are buzzing getting a puff twice a month
and over the moon when given a tenners every couple of years. ;)

Good comparisons by the way hags. :D ;)
.
 

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Again i agree with all of you...sick and tired of people second guessing and demanding results...ffs we cant play fantastic footy every game and win every trophy...just support the lads and enjoy while we are champions....SING UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS...
 

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Relegation to test the fans' faith? I say YES.

Ever since we had cable TV and witnessed this club bask in glory, I always wondered what if it went the other way (MUFC relegated to the Championship, not winning any silverware for 2 straight years, going bankrupt)...would the fans outside Mancunia still support United? a straightforward Yes from my fellows would utterly mean hypocritical especially where I come from (Philippines) where people constantly change sides, regardless of the sport.

Most of the fans I've met here have supported United after they broke Chelsea's brief dominance. I always ask them: "Where were you when United din't win a thing? They'll answer: There will always be other teams to watch out for." I'm still mates with them but influencing them to stand by United even if we're 5,000 miles would be hard. Really sad.:(

Not winning bigger cups would be OK for me, as long as they're playing.

About the bashing and stuff. Oh dreadful. How I wished these fans lived in our place so they can't bash on anyone. People here who did badly in sports gets chance anywhere. :rolleyes:

For now, we just have to enjoy what's happening right now. This ain't forever, y'know?:D
 

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Your totally right Haggs. I really often wonder how many fans would dissapear if
we had a dry spell again like we did in the 70's/80's?
To think back then if somebody told you that we will win a CL game 3-0 away
from home and most people will call it disappointing (including myself) and a bad
performance you'd laugh in his face and say you'd be happy to be there.

But as is life.

Success brings with it expectation.

I suppose its the way we have to be if we want to remain where we are. Its like
the issue Roy Keane had with the Ireland set up in the 2002 World Cup. The
players and fans were just happy to be there but Roy wanted to win and
somewhat expected to. He expects to succeed and win in everything he does as
Manchester United does. And that is the mindset you must have to succeed.

If we want to retain the CL we can't sit back and say sure aren't we happy to be
here because we're not. We're happy if we win it and must expect to.

So even though i kinda contradicted myself, i still agree that we're spoiled Haggs.
 

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RedMurph7 said:
Your totally right Haggs. I really often wonder how many fans would dissapear if
we had a dry spell again like we did in the 70's/80's?
To think back then if somebody told you that we will win a CL game 3-0 away
from home and most people will call it disappointing (including myself) and a bad
performance you'd laugh in his face and say you'd be happy to be there.

But as is life.

Success brings with it expectation.

I suppose its the way we have to be if we want to remain where we are. Its like
the issue Roy Keane had with the Ireland set up in the 2002 World Cup. The
players and fans were just happy to be there but Roy wanted to win and
somewhat expected to. He expects to succeed and win in everything he does as
Manchester United does. And that is the mindset you must have to succeed.

If we want to retain the CL we can't sit back and say sure aren't we happy to be
here because we're not. We're happy if we win it and must expect to.

So even though i kinda contradicted myself, i still agree that we're spoiled Haggs.
Thats what makes Giggs such a legend. Instead of being happy with the double, he is disapointed not to have the treble..its players like him who will push us forward. Im worried for what we happen after him and the other oldies are gone. I just cant see the Ronaldos and Nanis having that same desire to win. But whatever happens in the future i know that some true supporters like most of us will always be Utd.
 
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Every now and then there is a thread that surprises me and this is one of them.
Good to see that there are some that have the same points of view and have their heads screwed on the right way.

This thread makes interesting reading and sort of shows the expectations of a lot of our support.
http://www.manutdtalk.com/forums/man-utd-chat/13080-trophies-thread-ended-zenit-ant.html?highlight=trophies

Don't get me wrong, i celebrated last season as much as anyone else, but nothing like when United were promoted from the 2nd division back to the 1st in the seventys.
Every win was a massive victory in those days, the buzz lasted the whole week ( sometimes months depending on who we played), now we win away in Europe 3 - 0 and it's like "oh yeah, right, ok", talk about it tonight and back to normal tomorrow.

We went years without winning anything but we still had class and respect and the passion was always at feverpitch.
If that happened nowadays the support would just dissapear inoto the horizon
and start to support $helski or whoever was the "glory" team of the season.

In a perverse sort of way i wish we'd win nothing this season, maybe 2 or 3, fight for relegation and see where the fans and players hearts lay.
But at the same time i want us to win the Premiership again, maybe a double.

So far, respect to all the posters, surprised by your ages, where you come from and your like minded comments. Shows some have a grip on reality.

Will be very interesting to see the comments from other members tomorrow, especially the "we want/we'll win everything" posters.

Some sing " We'll keep the RED flag flying high, coz Man Utd will never die" and mean it, others sing it because it's catchy and sounds good.

Learn the full words and learn what it means.
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its all been about title and cl, the little cups, and sometimes the f a cup is made to feel like a small trophy, are just as important...i agree with you haggs,don't want to see utd relegated,but getting complacent is so easy to do when you have some of the best players in the world in your side.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Birtles , Davenport and Barnes anyone remember the expectation that came with those 3 back in the day ?

All 3 were big reputation players who failed to shine in red of utd . i remember at the time mentally berating them after maybe 8 or 9 games ---- home computers didnt exist then kiddies !!!! .

match of the day was the only way many got to see players then and it took much longer for a player to get crucified .

when we start to slide as we will someday no doubt i will be whining like a stuck pig and berating whoever displeases me and yearning for the good ol days of ronaldo and rooney berbatov and benzema or whoever is next to be saddled with a huge transfer fee .

As long as its not citeh who takeover at the top or god forbid a phoenix like liverpool will i really be that devastated ?

Damn right i will !!!!! who wants to be a forest fan going to northampton getting where were you when you were good sung at you from ol haggs !!!!

See every line a contradiction . im a junkie high on years of good gear after 20 years of austrian wine bemoaning my lot .

Every season a slog geared to that oh so short high or low in may .

And before blade asks no ive not been sniffin the lighter fuel again
 

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Nobody who is under 30 can remember what it was like pre Ferguson. You have all been spoilt by the success United have enjoyed and you all need to put this into perspective.

When you have stood on a terrace in the pouring rain, hail, snow, freezing and shivering, steam rising in great clouds all around the ground from the massed fans.

When you have watched a team ploughing through the rain soaked muddy "turf" with amazing skill only to see them lose out at home to a diabolical referee decision.

When you have spent a whole day crossing the country in sub zero temperatures to find the game called off with an hour to go.

I enjoy every day with the current success we have because I have been through hell to watch this club of mine. Success is fleeting. Liverpool, in the 70s, thought it could last forever. It didn't. Enjoy it now, enjoy your club and your football, but remember, we do not have the divine right to win anything, it takes work and belief.


Then you can see how spoilt you all are today.
 

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manc in oz said:
Your spot on there haggler. We sign a new player these days and everyone wants to jump on his back before he's even broke sweat. We also seem to have attracted a lot of supporters these days who continually question the players Fergy buys and the tactics he employs. Sad but true.

I actually had a problem with fans who question fergie all the time, but we have some of those fans here and they have been fans of manchester United for close to thirty years.

It isn't a reflection of the love of the club, just a reflection of their personality. They love Man Utd passionately and scrutinize every match. Where as i do the same, but lay off Fergie, because he's human and has been getting it right more often than not for over 20 years, they can't help but voice their concern and displeasure.

There are all types of people on a forum and they way they express themselves isn't always an indication of how much they love this magnificent club.
 

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Another 'Old United fan' v 'New Fans' Thread.....

I agree that some of our fans are plastic. I have a friend in school who supported Arsenal Last season and this season its Chelsea. Glory Hunters I tell ya. I actually started supporting us when we had a trophy drought and Le Arse had won the double. Then Chelsea entered the scene. Its was horrific to see The scum scousers win the title.

FA CUP or Carling Cup Glory is just as worthwhile. Certainly the FA CUP is a magical tourney. I dont ASK for CL and Title wins , but just watch every game we play , support our team and hope that we win every game. Surely every football fan wants that ?

I agree That I am a young fan , but I have learnt so much about our history and the things that happened back in the "good old days"

Coming back to the topic.....

I do not think we are spoilt. We did win 3-0 , but what went lackig was some passes and Nani's play etc. We are just asking the team to improve. As a great man said , We must always look to improve .
 

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While there are a few points I agree with in this thread, I am aghast by some other points and find them most disturbing, particularly one of them....

I agree we are spoilt by our successes over these years but that, in itself, is only natural and inevitable. Nothing to be alarmed about or scorned upon.

I have been a United fan since 1977 and have thus lived through the barren years in the late 70s and 80s when Liverpool were clearly dominant. I, too, dreamt of glory days then although expectations then were really pretty low. Never mind about appearing in an occasional FA Cup Final, just winning a match in the league would have made me very happy over the weekend already.

With the successes since the early 90s, expectations and thus the bars were raised, again, only natural and inevitable. And the desire to see more honours never diminished for me. Why should it be?! Sure, we have no divine right to win season after season and by simple probability, it can't last forever. Granted that, there is also absolutely nothing so wrong about craving for more and expecting more for our beloved club and want to see our beloved club at the top for as long as we could and as far as we are able to. Why do you think then that the most decorated player in our entire history, Giggs, expressed disappointment about winning the Double last season? I totally agree with him that it was our best chance to win the Treble for yet another unprecedented record but we screwed it up badly by losing to Portsmouth at home. He is just being insatiable and I can fully identify with it. Of course, I accepted the Double gleefully but that is another issue.

Moving along, I see a lot of misgivings about fans criticising Fergie and players. Why should it be?! While I agree that new players should not be slated or written off so soon and that some patience should be exercised, I don't agree that a fan should just remain silent and be agreeable with everything, the tactics and players etc. On the contrary, I am more inclined to believe that a true and passionate fan who sincerely wants and hopes the best for the club would naturally voice their concerns (as long as it is what is honestly perceived), all because of their love for the club and thus the burning desire for its continual success. Whether their assessments are right or wrong is not the issue and is another matter altogether. And it certainly has got nothing to do with their personalities as one touted. Putting it in another way, keeping quiet, being agreeable, being trusting no matter how otherwise you see do not necessarily make you a better fan.

It is indeed true that Fergie is our most successful manager in our entire history; the facts in the length of service and honours won speak for itself. But Ferige is not God, only a human and thus is not infallible or should be granted indemnity in all doings. Don't get me wrong before jumping the gun. We all know he is right most of the time throughout a long, hard season but he is not and can't always be right. Apple and orange. A good example was the Chelsea game at Stamford Bridge last season when after taking a lead, JOS was introduced to again try to protect a slim margin. We immediately lost the initiative and defended for our dear life until another 'accident' happened to concede a late penalty. Now, as passionate and true fans (true also has another meaning here: true to common sense and what is before your eyes), are we supposed to behave like ostriches with our heads in the sand and explain away in support that it was just unfortunate, one of those days, an accident only blah blah blah? Or if we were to voice out our frustrations and a fair criticism of the approach after the lead, we are not true but faithless and fairweather fans?! Or does that mean we are ungrateful to Fergie and showing disrespect for what he has done for us? Utter nonsense. It is just that we care and it hurt us as fans of the club. Again, apple and orange.

In the same vein, it applies to the players too. Just because a player has been a loyal servant for years does not exempt him from criticisms in a particular match. Simultaneously, criticising him (or Fergie) does not mean we don't appreciate him and thus are calling for his head. Not just another separate issue, it is also really because the club's interests should always rank before the player. This is also why I cringed when some fans declare their undying love for Ronaldo. I continue to support him only because he is playing for us and is one of our keymen to continual success of the club. Would I really care if he leaves the club after what he has done in the summer? Again, I am in love with the club, not with the player.

The last point is the one that I find most ridiculous and repugnant, and yet received a fair amount of support, which is thus shocking to say the least: not minding United get relegated just to separate the true fans and the glory hunters!!!? What treachery!!? What rubbish!!? Are you thus trying to say that proving yourself to be more true than others is more important than the club's interests and honours?! Please don't put your personal foolish pride before the club's interests...

I chose United to support in the 1977 FA Cup because they were in 'black' and my brother chose Liverpool because they were in 'white', as seen on the black and white TV then. [Posted this in the thread that asks how we first come to support United.] This had always been part of our siblings' rivalries. For the records, I have seen through the barren years and so does my brother. He still supports Liverpool despite 19 seasons without a league title.

Point is, in my humble opinion, glory hunters are not as many as we make it out to be. And a true fan is not one that is readily agreeable with everything, lock, stock and barrel, or has nothing negative to say or trust blindly no matter what he honestly sees otherwise but one that sticks with the club through good and bad times, having the same love and aspirations for the club, always wanting the best for the club, putting the interests of the club before self and players. Whether he voices out his frustrations and criticisms or not in his years of association is really immaterial.
 

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without a doubt these new breed of utd followers have been spoilt by our success i wonder how many of the constant critics on here can name 20 players from the eighties not many i reckon , instead they warble on about some poor player that spent 2 seasons at utd has if they were alltime greats . if utd ever got relegated {almost immpossible} there would be a lot less internet supporters thats for sure , and ever since the european cup in the knockout formula turned into the league format i struggle to get excited until the last 16 games and i think most older fans would agree , bring back the knockout games and bring the excitement back.
 

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Some great reads in this thread. All the oldies come out ;-)
In reply to the thread question, the answer is quite simply YES, we are spoiled to bits.
Anything less than first doesnt seem to be acceptable anymore, but thats what you
get when you are the biggest club on earth. Im sure its the same in Madrid.
 

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sweet fa said:
without a doubt these new breed of utd followers have been spoilt by our success i wonder how many of the constant critics on here can name 20 players from the eighties not many i reckon , instead they warble on about some poor player that spent 2 seasons at utd has if they were alltime greats . if utd ever got relegated {almost immpossible} there would be a lot less internet supporters thats for sure , and ever since the european cup in the knockout formula turned into the league format i struggle to get excited until the last 16 games and i think most older fans would agree , bring back the knockout games and bring the excitement back.
damn right the cl is all about boosting revenues . when you have the chance you can go out it gets worth a watch . Due respect to the minnows but who really gets up for games like this or say brondby in years gone by . we are all to some extent glory hunters though or we would support citeh :eek: :eek: . it will always be thus . how many kids did you see in chelsea shirts before abramovich pumped in his cash ? how long before my local jjb starts to sell man city shirts ? . i think the main point i was trying to make was not to label everyone born in last 25 years as a johhny come lately but more to give a reality check to myself to enjoy it more when its good as someday it wont be as sure as night follows day .
 

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RedForceRising said:
I actually had a problem with fans who question fergie all the time, but we have some of those fans here and they have been fans of manchester United for close to thirty years.

It isn't a reflection of the love of the club, just a reflection of their personality. They love Man Utd passionately and scrutinize every match. Where as i do the same, but lay off Fergie, because he's human and has been getting it right more often than not for over 20 years, they can't help but voice their concern and displeasure.

There are all types of people on a forum and they way they express themselves isn't always an indication of how much they love this magnificent club.


IMO it has nothing to do with how much you love the club. There are people on here who have watched a player three times and have slagged him to death. They didn't even wait for three games. If you love the club, why would you slag a new signing from the moment he arrives. I put most of it down to supporters who are just not very well informed about football, football players and football tactics. In short, there posts give them away.
 
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