[Sporting4Ever]

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in that if he had gone to say Milan, his training would have been different. For instance, Manutd are one of the few clubs who allow there young players to to express themsleves.

Ronaldo used to go around trying to take the world on, but we let him figure it out himself, whereas other teams would have straight away told him to 'cut it out'.

He has been able to express himself here more than he would have at any other club except Barcelona (expressive, attacking football is a must for both teams obviously).

We have also kept him on the straight and narrow, which is far easier said than done. Ronaldo is the perfect target for media hype/pressure.

We've seen first hand about how it can affect them. We had a player Lee Sharpe a while back who was similar to Giggs and came up at the same time. Who knows, at another club Ronaldo may have turned out be a Lee Sharpe instead of a Giggs.

You have no way of teeling if that guy is gonna be the best in the world. You can say "that guy is gonna be a decent player" or "He's got the potential to be world class" - but no one can say that an 18 year old is gonna end up the best in the world.

OT but Just wondering, having seen players like Figo, Quaresma, Ronaldo, Simao ect, whats your opinion on how far Nani can go?

We'll probably have to agree to dissagree, yeah.
But a few points I'd like to make:
-both the EPL and La Liga have much more emphasys on quality rather then regularity. I don't like italian football, to much rigour, defensive consistency, not taking goals is much more important than scoring them. That beeing said, i probably agree that an 18 year old boy wouldn't have cut it in the serie A in his 1st years, but then again, i doubt they'd buy someone that young.

-I think (and you can dissagree with me here) that the main reason CR took of so fast is that you had just sold beckham, so you we're a winger short, in effect. That gave him consistent 1st team play, in order to evolve. I think any team with the same ambitions and the same deficit would have handled him the same way.
Cuz let's face it, you don't buy a tenor and have him sing soprano.

It's not like he was like this when left, of course, you did in fact let him blossom (sounds gay, i know), but, in my view, he would have blossomed anywhere. Maybe it'd had taken him a couple more years, but don't forget, the main reason SAF came to Alvalade to play a friendly match and left wth a new winger is cuz he knew someone might snatch him first, so he knew even then.

That bit about nani i'll adress lower, since christiano asked the same, i'll answer both down there.

Sporting4Ever, you're just as deluded if you think he'd have risen to the top wherever he went. I agree that you can't say a young players gonna flop unless he goes to Man Utd. But take Quaresma and Simao for example, they were the next big thing, way more hyped than Ronaldo was - got their move to Barcelona and flopped the show and returned to Portugal.

Barcelona has made some lackluster deals since Laporta became president.
Buying simao, not using him, then selling him to benfica for less than half what they payed. And simao was THE benfica squad when he was there. now in Atletico he may do some nice things, but his time has passed, and i think going to benfica was the worse move he ever made.
Then quaresma, who did some nice things on his 1st and only year there, was traded in Barça's purchase of Deco, and he's also been the driving force in Porto. Mourinho going for him just tells you how good he is, but, to me, both players we're pretty much screwed by Barça's bad deals in recent years (loosing Figo like that???)
But there's also another thing for your consideration. Both quaresma and simao left Sporting at about 21, 22, while Ronaldo was bought at age 18, after his 1st year in Sporting's 1st team.
Quaresma and simaos played 1st team for Sporting for 2-3 years before moving to Barça, so that in itself should tell you something.

The quality and potential were already there, and credit to Man Utd to let him achieve it, but, to me, just letting a player play isn't the same as making him what he is.

Quote:
Queiroz is doing a ****-poor job atm

Sorry, but, good! I want him back at man utd! (as assistant only, obviously)

Well, if things keep going like this, you may have him, but I'd think twice about making him SAF's successor.
And take into account that I've had CQ as manager, and he gave us our 1st trophy after about 15 years of desert crossings, but what I've seen so far in the National team makes me question his methods and choices A LOT.

Oh and Sporting4Ever, out of interest, how far do you think Nani will go? there's alot of debate on this forum about him, just interested to see what you think of his character etc as I'm sure you saw alot of him for Sporting.

Firstly, I think Man Utd jumped the gun on taking him so soon. SAF said he considered buying him, and leaving him here for one more season, and I think that would've been best. Nani is very skilled, no doubt there, but he's trying to hard to prove himself, trying to (imo) show he can be just as good as ronnie. He may, but that's a few years away, hence him staying here one more year might have been better.
I hope he doesn't loose it, I think he's walking a fine line atm. The problem with buying players so young is they get starstruck and can loose themselves. He should focus on beeing a winger 1st, get to line and cross properly, then, when get's that, maybe aim higher. Ronaldo spent 2 years beeing a winger, nani wants it all fast. He just needs to keep his focus on the team, rather than on the show, and he hasn't been there so far...

 

[christianoharleiro]

scott 4 evra:

I have nothing against Fletcher, and I'm part Scottish, I haven't said anything bad about him, saying Hargreaves is better is not insulting Fletcher, as Hargreaves is one of the best def mids in the world.

In 2006, he won both England Player of the Year, and England Player of the World Cup in official FA polls, the first to win both in the same year.

He was phenomenal at the world cup. He was even voted the world cups best player in some polls.

Sporting4ever:

Back to Ronaldo's development, as I said Ronaldo was extremely inconsistent in his first 3 years here, in particular his first 2, he had 0 end product, free kicks flying into row Z, weak and knocked off the ball, couldn't head etc etc.

Therefore I believe that it was SAF and the coaching team that made Ronaldo what he is today - not sporting.

Sporting made him a kid with plenty of skill and massive potential.
Man Utd turned the kid into the worlds best.

As for Nani, I completely agree with this "Nani is very skilled, no doubt there, but he's trying to hard to prove himself, trying to (imo) show he can be just as good as ronnie."

I think he needs to realise he is Nani and not Ronaldo2 aswell, he tries to many of the things Ronaldo does and it doesn't come off. He has some attributes that are better than Ronaldo's already (crossing, corners, long shots, work rate) he should stick to them.

 

[spellbound]

Fergie treads carefully with Ronaldo

SIR Alex Ferguson has tipped Cristiano Ronaldo to be crowned world player of the year in December - but revealed he could leave his star man out of Tuesday night’s Champions League clash with Celtic.

After scoring 42 goals last season, Ronaldo has already found his shooting boots this term, rattling home his fourth of a season that did not start until mid-September in Manchester United’s comfortable weekend win over West Brom.

Given United were crowned kings of England and Europe last May, Ronaldo is odds-on favourite to land the FIFA world prize and the prestigious Ballon D’Or, for which he headed the list of nominated players released over the weekend.

Ferguson cannot see any justifiable reasons why both honours should not come Ronaldo’s way.

However, the Reds chief feels Ronaldo has not quite recovered from the ankle operation he had in the summer. And after a conversation with former assistant and current Portugal boss Carlos Queiroz, given the swift turnaround, Ferguson is tempted to let Nani loose on Celtic instead.

“Cristiano will win both player of the year awards, I am sure of it,” said Ferguson.

“If he doesn’t, I want to sign the guy who does.

“But Carlos feels Cristiano is still finding it hard to recover from a Saturday game to a Wednesday.

“I need to look at this game and the fact it is on a Tuesday and assess whether to bring in Nani.”

Not that Ronaldo will meekly step aside to let Nani in, no matter how close his relationship with his fellow countryman.

Responded

Ferguson saw how the 23-year-old responded to Gary Neville’s query about his wellbeing at Old Trafford on Saturday and knows he faces a delicate decision.

“I thought Cristiano was starting to show signs of tiring so I asked Gary to see how he was,” said Ferguson.

“Ronaldo said he was feeling it a bit and maybe it was time to come off. Five minutes later he told Gary he felt good. Maybe it was the thought he might be coming off.

“But you will find that. The type of human being he is and the type of athlete he is, he always finds something extra.”

Ferguson reported Ronaldo is feeling no pain from his troublesome ankle so, long-term, he has no fears for the former Sporting Lisbon star.

However, his endurance and ability to raise his level game after game still needs working on, hence the Scot’s dilemma.

“Cristiano is coming on terrific now,” said Ferguson.

“He was magnificent on the Saturday against Sweden but when Portugal played Albania last Wednesday he was a bit flat.

“It is simply because of the recovery thing.”

As Nani also scored at the weekend, and is far fresher, the option is an attractive one, although Ronaldo’s class is a major counterweight.

“Nani only played for 36 minutes for Portugal and 15 for us on Saturday so he is nice and fresh,” he said.

“When you get so many games in a row after an operation like that, the adrenalin helps you out once but then it dips.

“But the thing about Ronaldo is that with one flick he can score because he is such a talent in the box.”

While Ferguson’s dilemma will probably not be resolved until an hour before kick-off, he does not intend to spend any time worrying about Ronaldo’s subdued reaction to the 95th goal of his United career.

His response has been viewed in some quarters as an indicator Ronaldo wished his dream move to Real Madrid had gone through this summer.

Ferguson, who persuaded him to stay, is not getting involved.

“I read that stuff,” he said. “I am not even going to answer it.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1073630_fergie_treads_carefully_with_ronaldo

 

[RedForceRising]

We should have been behind him since the first friendly to show him their is no greater club in the world than united. Instead we have virtually put the stamp on the Madrid postcard he will send us at the end of this season.

We as fans could have influenced him into wanting to remain a red. I honestly think it was us after the rooney world cup incident that kept him at united by showing him we value club over country and stood by him. That season that followed he duly repaid us.

I think for so called "fans" to expect him to play with the same passion as last season and get nothing back in appreciation is verging on lunacy.

Fair point, but when he announced with confidence that we would love him after a goal or two, I think he made it harder for the fans to love him and sing his songs, don't you?

The whole stinking summer was his fault and how the fans have welcomed him back is his fault.

He can not expect to have no reactions/consequences for his behaviour nor should he expect to have it easy.

babysenorita said he's only human afterall?

Well what about the fans?!?!?!?!? We're even more human.

I think he deserves the lack of worship he's getting now, so he knows what the fans think. At least he's not getting booed.

He already made his mind up to leave and no amount of singing last season convinced him to stay last season. There were games where the most prominent songs were viva ronaldo and the boy ronaldo and he still wanted t leave desperately, so I'm not sure any amount of singing his songs will convince him to stay either.

He behaved like a prat and has his head in the cloud, so the fans are actually doing a favour for Cristiano (the human being) by letting him know he isn't getting off the hook that easily and that we are less than impressed by his antics and him throwing out the toys.

 

[Sporting4Ever]

scott 4 evra:
Sporting4ever:

Back to Ronaldo's development, as I said Ronaldo was extremely inconsistent in his first 3 years here, in particular his first 2, he had 0 end product, free kicks flying into row Z, weak and knocked off the ball, couldn't head etc etc.

Therefore I believe that it was SAF and the coaching team that made Ronaldo what he is today - not sporting.

Sporting made him a kid with plenty of skill and massive potential.
Man Utd turned the kid into the worlds best.

Well, he never took free kicks here, so naturally, that was something he worked over there. You can't expect him to be the designated free kick taker on his 1st year, and we had other youngsters in the youth teams that worked on it more then he did.
As for heading, he scored a couple here, but in all fairness, heading isn't what a winger is about. If you want to talk about goal scoring, yes, he evolved tremendously there, even SAF didn't expect him to do it. He scored quite a few here, but he wasn't a striker, therefore he didn't get many chances anyways. So if you want to look at it simply from the goal scoring angle, he did that there, but to reduce his qualities to just that doesn't do him justice.

Of course he evolved, all players evolve (maybe not all, but most ), if he was today what he was 5 years ago, i dare say he would be a bench warmer at best.

I agree with SAF when he said that if they didn't grab him them, they'd risk someone taking him first, so he saw the diamond there. Of course, he was young, of course he lacked power and strengh and experience, but what 18 year old has those things? The rest, however, was there.

 

[-zuco-]

There are so many good posts in this thread that I want to take some time to read through it before I make a proper post, It wil probably take about an hour to get through it

 

[stretty]

I do not think it matters who developed him , the fact is he is the best and most valued player in the world at the moment , unfortuneately he does not realise he is already at the best club in the world.
We buy fully developed players as a rule and pay double the price , ronny , nani ,rooney and anderson were exceptions.
I think rio , carrick and even berbatov could have come to united for half the price but fergie waited till they had made an impact elsewhere before buying them

 

[Red Devil]

I think you're all spoilt really. Its quite simple. You have all been brought up on Fergie, you know nothing else. When United fail to achive, by your standards, what is their "right" - then its name and shame time but is it - really?

These players play for the biggest club in the world, and are consistently winning silverware - what exactly do you all want?

Jesus is unavailable, due to a sad case of death. One of your "heroes" Maradonna is a fat turd with a drug problem, so he is out. Eric is not too old as is Keano and Captain Marvel. Best is another who has succumbed to the Big Sleep.

What do you want?

 

[Sporting4Ever]

...
What do you want?

Ronaldo and Nani back, pls

 

[RedDevil4]

is anyone else still struggling to sing and applaude Ronaldo. ? . ? .

i just cant!! i really just dont see any United in him.

he comes across like he doesnt want to be part of the team and when he plays it is just for himself

today just 1 example
1. after the goal, no celebration with the fans or players or even a smile
2. after Rooneys goal a real arrogance and selfishness to go all out for himself
3. full time, he walked straight off the pitch didnt applause the fans NOTHING

anyone else agree ??
i know he was amazing etc etc last season but after the summer and his comments i could never feel the same about him, but i really dont feel he is even trying to win the fans back over.

I know what you mean, recently from watching him, he doesn't seem to be happy scoring goals for united. I really dont like him at the moment, the sooner he goes to Real Madrid the better I say, we don't need him.

 

[Red Devil]

I watched the game tonight in a pub, playing League darts. The darts was more interesting than Ronaldo's game. Sorry, but he is decided and - going.

 

[thekeanefella]

when he was subbed the fans were applauding him as he got to the touchline, he didnt have the courtesy to acknowledge them.

he makes anelka look happy go lucky..

 

[Red_Devil28]

Well i must admit he is not my favourite player at the moment and i have not sung his song with any feeling, in fact i just mumbled it.
We had a conversation in the car on the way home and all of us agreed that we should FORGIVE AND FORGET , because at the end of the day we are just helping to drive our prize asset out of the door.
I am sure after a couple of games when his song is sung with feeling again , we will all the see a more cheerful ronaldo.
I think he is sulking and cannot understand why he has gone from from hero to zero overnight.
Obviously we all think that he will leave in the summer , but we shouldnt play any part in his departure , so lets get behind him and just hope by some miracle our best player decides to stay.
I hope we draw real and put them to the sword and show him who the best team in the world are

Finally someone with a bit of sense!! i completely agree with you apart from the favorite player thing lol. but seriously im sick of comin on here and reading the same borin ronaldo should have gone rubbish etc, What the hell is wrong with you people - the guy cant do anything right can he - if we'd let him go you would have all slated him so he stays and you still aint happy!! As i have said in a privious post if our fans dont start gettin behind ronnie then it won't just be him that it will affect - He is STILL A UTD PLAYER and therefor the way he plays effects the whole of the team. So for crying out loud GET OVER IT AREADY - the past is past

And i watched him play last night and if anythin he looked tired - me thinks his ankle surgery is still takin its toll and maybe thats he comes across as moody.....

 

[spellbound]

Finally someone with a bit of sense!! i completely agree with you apart from the favorite player thing lol. but seriously im sick of comin on here and reading the same borin ronaldo should have gone rubbish etc, What the hell is wrong with you people - the guy cant do anything right can he - if we'd let him go you would have all slated him so he stays and you still aint happy!! As i have said in a privious post if our fans dont start gettin behind ronnie then it won't just be him that it will affect - He is STILL A UTD PLAYER and therefor the way he plays effects the whole of the team. So for crying out loud GET OVER IT AREADY - the past is past

And i watched him play last night and if anythin he looked tired - me thinks his ankle surgery is still takin its toll and maybe thats he comes across as moody.....

From my point of view love and respect is not something you get. Love and respect is something you earn. I assume you either work or go to school. At work or school you got people there you love and respect. They have earned your love and respect and some you just have a working relation with. Maybe you dont talk to each other but you let them mind their own business more or less.
I told someone (stretty I think it was) that I admire him for defending this guy through thick and thin. I wish I could. Me and Ronaldo got this professional relations now. What it will take to earn the love and respect at the moment Im not sure. Maybe our love gone cold forever. Maybe he can with a bit more distance to this summer make up to what he ruined. And yes, no matter what he do he do wrong but he have only himself to blame for this.

Because in the end of the day United is larger then any player and we will live on without Ronaldo. We have lost more influencial players then him before and we are still come back and become winners. If Ronaldo will do without United, I dont care coz I love United and not Ronaldo.