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Berbatov>Tevez
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Vidic's The One Who's Got To Improve Most




Saturday's 4-3 defeat of Hull City prompted some soulsearching at United - mainly because of our defensive performance. Though the contribution of Mike Dean was significant, it cannot be denied that the back four was far from its imposing best.

Nemanja Vidic acknowledged that they've got to improve as a unit if United are to pick up any silverware again. Stupid mistakes cannot be tolerated.

'The most important thing is that we took the three points,' he said.

'We made a few mistakes and lost a few goals, which is not good for us, especially the defenders.'

'We can learn from the game. We made small mistakes that cost us three goals. 'I hope we can improve on that so it doesn't happen again.'

'We need to forget this game but not how we conceded the goals. That way we can make sure it doesn't happen again. We have a few days to work on that before Celtic and to improve.'

'The first goal was from a set-piece and the third came after we had a corner and we were out of position, so they were able to counter-attack.'

'These are small mistakes that don't usually happen with us. We need to learn from our mistakes but we don't need to be too worried.'

The truth is that though Rio made some terrible mistakes at Everton and gave away a penalty - which, actually, was never a penalty but never mind - it is Vidic who is generally shaky these days.

We are vulnerable from air and it is mainly down to Nemanja's lack of positioning and anticipation that he displays these days. At his best he is a tough, no-nonsense defender who is usually at the right place at the right time and his aerial dominance proved very important for United last season.

He, along with Rio and Evra, look a bit jaded mentally. He's the worst of the three at the moment and he's the one who needs to improve most. He just doesn't seem to be able to concentrate with the intensity that we got used to, therefore the back four became much more fragile.

After the heroics of last season, some complacency, some tiredness from the defenders is not a heinous crime. It is cruel that they cannot be rested, they cannot be given time to sort out their poor form on the pitch the way attackers are. A mistake up front leads to a squandered chance; a mistake at the back often leads to a goal.

Defenders are under more scrutiny but we must try and restrain ourselves from unfair criticism as obviously the defence was the basis of Champions League success. Their energy stores have not yet been completely refilled, it's true - but I hope they'll get their act together soon. In this sense the defeat at Anfield, with its tragic individual mistakes, was a timely wake-up call. With two important away games looming, the three goals conceded against Hull might actually turn out to be a blessing.



Was this written by Rio's dad ???to take the focus of him??? I mean - he was shaky against Everton and gave AWAY an obvious penalty and yet this guy makes Vidic look shaky ! WTF ?i know it's a team's performance etc but if anyone rio needs to pull himself together

i would like to add that the second goal we conceeded , the one that vida said it happened after our corner, was because we had too many attackers in the team....1 or more natural midfielders could have solved the problem..you can't expect from ronaldo,giggs,rooney,tevez,and bebratov to cover their own players while having an attacking cornere
 

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Proto-Hipster
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wtf

Vidic is the one who makes Rio looking good

they both had their flaws in the last two matches but to be fair Vida have been the more constant one and the one who makes up for his mistakes


Vidic is the most underrated player in our team after Carrick
 

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Pz
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vidic is being beaten in the air constantly recently and was poor against hull giving away numerous fouls which resulted in a goal. Rio had a shaky game against everton but was good against hull until the penalty.

I wont be too critical of rio after a few mistakes because for the last 15 he has been the best centre back in the world imo. Both him and vidic know they must improve and i agree, evra looks a little tired but hopefully we'll be back to our great attacking self and solid defense ASAP! ;-)

pz
 

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Well, Ferdinand and Vidic have both set high standards for themselves so anything other than a clean sheet is seen as a failure. To criticise one and not the other is a bit stupid though, I'll agree.
 

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United_OG said:
vidic is being beaten in the air constantly recently and was poor against hull giving away numerous fouls which resulted in a goal. Rio had a shaky game against everton but was good against hull until the penalty.

I wont be too critical of rio after a few mistakes because for the last 15 he has been the best centre back in the world imo. Both him and vidic know they must improve and i agree, evra looks a little tired but hopefully we'll be back to our great attacking self and solid defense ASAP! ;-)

pz
I had vidic for man of the match saturday , he covered a lot of mistakes by the rest of the back four and got a goal to cap it off.
He also won nearly every header on saturday
 

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CROoney said:
Vidic's The One Who's Got To Improve Most




Saturday's 4-3 defeat of Hull City prompted some soulsearching at United - mainly because of our defensive performance. Though the contribution of Mike Dean was significant, it cannot be denied that the back four was far from its imposing best.

Nemanja Vidic acknowledged that they've got to improve as a unit if United are to pick up any silverware again. Stupid mistakes cannot be tolerated.

'The most important thing is that we took the three points,' he said.

'We made a few mistakes and lost a few goals, which is not good for us, especially the defenders.'

'We can learn from the game. We made small mistakes that cost us three goals. 'I hope we can improve on that so it doesn't happen again.'

'We need to forget this game but not how we conceded the goals. That way we can make sure it doesn't happen again. We have a few days to work on that before Celtic and to improve.'

'The first goal was from a set-piece and the third came after we had a corner and we were out of position, so they were able to counter-attack.'

'These are small mistakes that don't usually happen with us. We need to learn from our mistakes but we don't need to be too worried.'

The truth is that though Rio made some terrible mistakes at Everton and gave away a penalty - which, actually, was never a penalty but never mind - it is Vidic who is generally shaky these days.

We are vulnerable from air and it is mainly down to Nemanja's lack of positioning and anticipation that he displays these days. At his best he is a tough, no-nonsense defender who is usually at the right place at the right time and his aerial dominance proved very important for United last season.

He, along with Rio and Evra, look a bit jaded mentally. He's the worst of the three at the moment and he's the one who needs to improve most. He just doesn't seem to be able to concentrate with the intensity that we got used to, therefore the back four became much more fragile.

After the heroics of last season, some complacency, some tiredness from the defenders is not a heinous crime. It is cruel that they cannot be rested, they cannot be given time to sort out their poor form on the pitch the way attackers are. A mistake up front leads to a squandered chance; a mistake at the back often leads to a goal.

Defenders are under more scrutiny but we must try and restrain ourselves from unfair criticism as obviously the defence was the basis of Champions League success. Their energy stores have not yet been completely refilled, it's true - but I hope they'll get their act together soon. In this sense the defeat at Anfield, with its tragic individual mistakes, was a timely wake-up call. With two important away games looming, the three goals conceded against Hull might actually turn out to be a blessing.



Was this written by Rio's dad ???to take the focus of him??? I mean - he was shaky against Everton and gave AWAY an obvious penalty and yet this guy makes Vidic look shaky ! WTF ?i know it's a team's performance etc but if anyone rio needs to pull himself together

i would like to add that the second goal we conceeded , the one that vida said it happened after our corner, was because we had too many attackers in the team....1 or more natural midfielders could have solved the problem..you can't expect from ronaldo,giggs,rooney,tevez,and bebratov to cover their own players while having an attacking cornere
There are a few reasons for the defence letting in goals and not necessarily needing improvement. Last season we played 4-3-3 for most part of the season whereas we are playing 4-4-2 this season for all the matches. SAF Team are not exactly the ones which are known for their defensive strength, I would not stay last years defensive success was down to Carlos but he did ensure that we were strong at defending.

One more reason was Rooney and Tevez, Both were playing together regularly and one of them would be on the wing tracking back. Tevez defends from the front and Rooney with purpose anywhere, which is something that’s a bit different this time around as now we play with Ronaldo, Nani and Berbatov who lose the ball more times trying the slick or wow pass or the jaw dropping dribble. These things do put a lot of pressure on the midfield and defence.

A few key observations
1. The defence does look tired and out of focus many times. Evra is not his same self, Vidic and Ferdinand are making mistakes which was not the case last season.
2. Ferdinand played much better with the armband than what he does without it. No proof or statistics but just a theory
3. We are defensively stable playing a semi winger on one of the wings like Hargreves, Anderson or Giggs when he played there last year.

We are not in defensive instability but our defensive woes have led us to lose a few points that we should not have and most of them have come out of something lacking in our all round play than the ability our players have. The question is raised as we are giving goals away because of our errors rather than a piece of skill or quality of the opposition to break us down.
 

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Pz
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stretty said:
I had vidic for man of the match saturday , he covered a lot of mistakes by the rest of the back four and got a goal to cap it off.
He also won nearly every header on saturday
I dont really see how vidic was man of the match. Our defence conceeded three goals for the first time since 2005 apparently so i dont really see how vidic was man of the match. He also gave away many fouls and it was from a foul that he conceeded that hull equalised in the first half.

Everyone sees things different though so i respect your opinion but i have to disagree with this!

By the way, congrats on being member of the month.

pz
 

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shanky said:
There are a few reasons for the defence letting in goals and not necessarily needing improvement. Last season we played 4-3-3 for most part of the season whereas we are playing 4-4-2 this season for all the matches. SAF Team are not exactly the ones which are known for their defensive strength, I would not stay last years defensive success was down to Carlos but he did ensure that we were strong at defending.

One more reason was Rooney and Tevez, Both were playing together regularly and one of them would be on the wing tracking back. Tevez defends from the front and Rooney with purpose anywhere, which is something that's a bit different this time around as now we play with Ronaldo, Nani and Berbatov who lose the ball more times trying the slick or wow pass or the jaw dropping dribble. These things do put a lot of pressure on the midfield and defence.

A few key observations
1. The defence does look tired and out of focus many times. Evra is not his same self, Vidic and Ferdinand are making mistakes which was not the case last season.
2. Ferdinand played much better with the armband than what he does without it. No proof or statistics but just a theory
3. We are defensively stable playing a semi winger on one of the wings like Hargreves, Anderson or Giggs when he played there last year.

Wer are not in defensive instability but oudefensive woes have led us to lose a few points that we should not have and most of them have come out of something lacking in our all round play than the ability our players have. The question is raised as we are giving goals away because of our errors rather than a piece of skill or quality of the opposition to break us down.
I agree on everything except Evra. Evra has been the most consistent performer and made a single mistake againt HUll.

Rio should be our club captain IMO. It lifts him and gives him more to play for.

Playing 4-4-2 this season and as you remarked with Tevez on the bench recently, we're not defending from the front as much as we used to.

However, I don't think it's a situation we should address by changing tactics. For the long-term good, Fergie has to get Nani and Ronaldo to do their defensive duties. Ronaldo does track back and defend once in awhile, but mostly it depends on his mood and whether he's sen the ball a lot or not.

In games where we're leading and he's had his fair share of the ball it's difficult to see him tracking back and putting pressure on the opponents.
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #11
stretty said:
I had vidic for man of the match saturday , he covered a lot of mistakes by the rest of the back four and got a goal to cap it off.
He also won nearly every header on saturday
absolutely agree
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #12
shanky said:
There are a few reasons for the defence letting in goals and not necessarily needing improvement. Last season we played 4-3-3 for most part of the season whereas we are playing 4-4-2 this season for all the matches. SAF Team are not exactly the ones which are known for their defensive strength, I would not stay last years defensive success was down to Carlos but he did ensure that we were strong at defending.

One more reason was Rooney and Tevez, Both were playing together regularly and one of them would be on the wing tracking back. Tevez defends from the front and Rooney with purpose anywhere, which is something that's a bit different this time around as now we play with Ronaldo, Nani and Berbatov who lose the ball more times trying the slick or wow pass or the jaw dropping dribble. These things do put a lot of pressure on the midfield and defence.

A few key observations
1. The defence does look tired and out of focus many times. Evra is not his same self, Vidic and Ferdinand are making mistakes which was not the case last season.
2. Ferdinand played much better with the armband than what he does without it. No proof or statistics but just a theory
3. We are defensively stable playing a semi winger on one of the wings like Hargreves, Anderson or Giggs when he played there last year.

We are not in defensive instability but our defensive woes have led us to lose a few points that we should not have and most of them have come out of something lacking in our all round play than the ability our players have. The question is raised as we are giving goals away because of our errors rather than a piece of skill or quality of the opposition to break us down.
agree with everything but with evra and vida part...just because rio's making mistakes doesn't neccessarily mean vida is making them...

it's as if people look at them as a same person - as soon as one's having an off day, the other's having him by default - although it ain't true
 

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United_OG said:
I dont really see how vidic was man of the match. Our defence conceeded three goals for the first time since 2005 apparently so i dont really see how vidic was man of the match. He also gave away many fouls and it was from a foul that he conceeded that hull equalised in the first half.

Everyone sees things different though so i respect your opinion but i have to disagree with this!

By the way, congrats on being member of the month.

pz
Thanks for congrats.
Anyway why cant you be man of the match if the defence lets in three , i have seen keepers get it and they have let a few in.
From where i was sitting vidic looked to have a solid game , gary neville had the mare , he was constantly caught upfield and left the defence in the lurch , he no longer has the legs to get up and down the pitch hence rio looked bad .
Now the left side was quite soild with patrice and vidic who both did okay.
But i have not seen any tv coverage to date
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #14
stretty said:
Thanks for congrats.
Anyway why cant you be man of the match if the defence lets in three , i have seen keepers get it and they have let a few in.From where i was sitting vidic looked to have a solid game , gary neville had the mare , he was constantly caught upfield and left the defence in the lurch , he no longer has the legs to get up and down the pitch hence rio looked bad .
Now the left side was quite soild with patrice and vidic who both did okay.
But i have not seen any tv coverage to date
my point excactly...you stole words from me...

this is how journalists rate players - a little true story from 1 journalist who was shocked with his collegues -

i was at the match rijeka-dinamo zagreb - and i was doing my report when i overheard my collegue who was talking with his editor on the phone, and he said : give every defender 5 , cos they let in a goal and the result is 1-1- so it will probably stay that way...and then dinamo score 2 in quick succession and he called his editor again and said - "wait, wait - lift the entire mark to everyone in dinamo team "...
now not only that those 2 late goals scored had very little to do with the performance of the entire team (they were scored after corner kicks i think ) but it actually influenced on the defenders marks....ridiculous...

we must not take some things for granted.if opponents score that doesn't mean every defender was bad
 

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I'm probably on my own I hear but I do think that Vidic is second behind Anderson in terms of how we overate our players.

Sure he is a brilliant defender, but he actually makes a lot of mistakes. Fortunately for him Rio covers him ass most of the time.

We have to remember aswell that Rio is, usually, the one who reads the game, so when he makes a mistake there is no one to really cover him, especially when Neville is playing. However when Vidic makes a mistake 90% of the time he has Rio in behind him.

Another thing is this 'hard man' image he has is waaaaay overrated. Sure he is brave in the header, but how many times have we seen him fall to the ground after a little push or kick by the opposition? Or How about the countless times he gets outmuscled?

Vidic is an excellent CB and is one of my faviorite players but he isn't as good as we make him out to be and he certainly isn't a 'hard man'.
 

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TheManc said:
I'm probably on my own I hear but I do think that Vidic is second behind Anderson in terms of how we overate our players.

Sure he is a brilliant defender, but he actually makes a lot of mistakes. Fortunately for him Rio covers him ass most of the time.

We have to remember aswell that Rio is, usually, the one who reads the game, so when he makes a mistake there is no one to really cover him, especially when Neville is playing. However when Vidic makes a mistake 90% of the time he has Rio in behind him.

Another thing is this 'hard man' image he has is waaaaay overrated. Sure he is brave in the header, but how many times have we seen him fall to the ground after a little push or kick by the opposition? Or How about the countless times he gets outmuscled?

Vidic is an excellent CB and is one of my faviorite players but he isn't as good as we make him out to be and he certainly isn't a 'hard man'.
I think what you must remember is the partnership , you need one of your centre halves to attack the ball and the other to mop up behind him ,
vidic has got the aggression and attacks and rio has the skill to clean up behind him.
brucie and pallister were a great example of this and dare i say it hansen and lawrenson
 

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stretty said:
I think what you must remember is the partnership , you need one of your centre halves to attack the ball and the other to mop up behind him ,
vidic has got the aggression and attacks and rio has the skill to clean up behind him.
brucie and pallister were a great example of this and dare i say it hansen and lawrenson
Thats what I mean. When Vidic makes a mistake Rio covers it up for him, so the mistake doesn't stand out so much. But when its Rio has has made a mistake there often isn't anyone behind him - therefore the mistake stands out a lot more.
 

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TheManc said:
Thats what I mean. When Vidic makes a mistake Rio covers it up for him, so the mistake doesn't stand out so much. But when its Rio has has made a mistake there often isn't anyone behind him - therefore the mistake stands out a lot more.
yes sorry mate i did not read your post properly and you are spot on , when rio has dropped a clanger usually the striker is in on goal with just vds to beat.
But i think you are a bit hard on vidic , he is brave and probably not as tough as people make out , he does have a bit of a habit of going down and rolling about a bit , which really does annoy me
 

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TheManc said:
I'm probably on my own I hear but I do think that Vidic is second behind Anderson in terms of how we overate our players.

Sure he is a brilliant defender, but he actually makes a lot of mistakes. Fortunately for him Rio covers him ass most of the time.

We have to remember aswell that Rio is, usually, the one who reads the game, so when he makes a mistake there is no one to really cover him, especially when Neville is playing. However when Vidic makes a mistake 90% of the time he has Rio in behind him.

Another thing is this 'hard man' image he has is waaaaay overrated. Sure he is brave in the header, but how many times have we seen him fall to the ground after a little push or kick by the opposition? Or How about the countless times he gets outmuscled?

Vidic is an excellent CB and is one of my faviorite players but he isn't as good as we make him out to be and he certainly isn't a 'hard man'.
lmao. oh wait it wasn't a joke :eek:

We do overrate Anderson a bit - but that's because he's young (and Brazilian) and you'll find a lot of people on this forum overrate our youngsters - in particular Evans.

We have no reason to overrate Vidic - he's not young, not English etc.

As for him 'getting outmuscled countless times' I don't think so. You don't get much stronger than Drogba and Vidic shat on him. However I did notice Marlon King made him work a bit, but still, outmuscled countless times is a ridiculous statement.

Vidic isn't a hard man? Vidic is our (better) John Terry in that he would jump infront of a train for us.
 
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