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Oooooh..... zuco no approve.

Well too bad!

What happened two years ago then to bring about Rio's rise?

Let's see....oh oh could it be the arrival of Nemanja Vidic?!?!?

Yes.

Actually no, Vidic arrived three years ago and was a very average defender by all accounts. He's become a great defender by playing alongside the best defender in the world.

I'm a fan of Rio and maybe my statement was a little too strong, but I fully believe that Rio has had to up his game, BECAUSE of Vidic.

Wrong, for the reason given above.

Also, Vidic is there to mop up his nonsense and from what I've seen so far, we miss Vidic much more when he's out that we miss Rio when he's out.

What exactly are you basing this on? Has Vidic missed a long spell of football recently? No, he missed one game unless I'm mistaken, and Evans had to play alongside Rio who'd just come back from injury and in all likelihood is not 100% fit yet. Some people have very short memories on this forum.

Yes, Ferdinand is maybe a better footballer all around, but if you're talking about defending and all the components that make a great defender, Vidic is better IMO.

Is Vidic fast? Is Vidic good on the ball? Not really, not to the quality of Rio that's for sure. Rio is also equally good at heading, tackling, passing, positioning....basically, everything Vidic can do, Rio can do equally well. And has a few more qualities that Vida doesn't. Rio is the most complete defender in the world, it's crazy that that's even debatable.


Yeah CROoney and Abo :thumbsup:

First let's list the members who rate Vidic ahead of Ferdinand:


Crooney
abo
canto
004
Cappy
Berbatov08
christianoharleiro
piazza
moondog
ivica1983
Edit - now updated with:
16-Keano-16
red devil jeff
RN10
Sownak27
IanDangerously


Then let's talk about Vidic being an average defender when he arrived.
I think he had a rocky a start, but that didn't make him average. He was good when he came and now I rate him as THE best defender in the world. Ahead of Ferdinand.

Ferdinand and Vidic have benefited from each other, but Vidic commits less errors and is more consistent than Ferdinand. If you want to argue this point, it is you who should be watching the games closer.

I think Rio's reputation might be blurring your opinion.

This season Nemanja Vidic has been head and shoulders above Rio Ferdinand. He has been an absolute rock and the defence does not look as solid without him.

Vidic + Evans > Ferdinand + Evans

As for the attributes that make a great defender, you use being great on the ball? Surely that is a prerequisite for playing at Man Utd?

So Rio might be better on the ball and might be a bit faster. What about concentration levels?
Vidic commits far less errors than Rio Ferdinand.


Talking about using the ball. In terms of distribution Ferdinand might be better, but I've noticed that Vidic passes the ball back to his goalkeeper more accurately than Ferdinand. Van der Sar almost always looks much more comfortable kicking a ball he receives from Vidic than from Ferdinand and that again is more important in terms of defending than distributing the balls nicely to the midfielders. In which Vidic is not totally useless either.

You are right that both of them do some things equally well, but Vidic is braver, stronger in the tackle, a better header of the ball, so when it comes to DEFENDING, it's Vidic for me.

You say composure is one of the attributes that they are equally good in, but I would disagree. Vidic is cooler, more composed customer for me than Ferdinand.

As babyseniorita says in her post WHEN Rio is top of his game, he is the best defender in the world, but how often have we seen that this season?

Man, I'm not saying Ferdinand is anything less than top class and I've already said that my first assertion that Vidic makes Rio look good is exaggerated, but Vidic is more important to Ferdinand than vice versa.

Plus Vidic scores goals! 6 so far this season.
That makes him joint 5th top scorer in a United squad full of attackers.

If I had to choose between Ferdinand and Vidic going in to an important game, I would chose Nemanja Vidic.


Rio hasn't been injury prone for two or three years now CROo. He has completely cut the errors out of his game over the past two seasons. This "lack of concentration" rubbish frustrates me because it's simply not true anymore.

I get the feeling some people just read papers and repeat the opinions printed in them by idiotic journalists, rather than actually watch the game and come up with an opinion of their own.
- this is poor form. Booooo! We don't agree with zuco, so we must be mindless sheep, who don't form our own opinion.

If you're saying that Rio has been better than Vidic this season, you are the one who needs to watch the games closer and not let reputations cloud your judgement!
 
G

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Oooooh..... zuco no approve.

Well too bad!

What happened two years ago then to bring about Rio's rise?

Let's see....oh oh could it be the arrival of Nemanja Vidic?!?!?

Yes.

Actually no, Vidic arrived three years ago and was a very average defender by all accounts. He's become a great defender by playing alongside the best defender in the world.

I'm a fan of Rio and maybe my statement was a little too strong, but I fully believe that Rio has had to up his game, BECAUSE of Vidic.

Wrong, for the reason given above.

Also, Vidic is there to mop up his nonsense and from what I've seen so far, we miss Vidic much more when he's out that we miss Rio when he's out.

What exactly are you basing this on? Has Vidic missed a long spell of football recently? No, he missed one game unless I'm mistaken, and Evans had to play alongside Rio who'd just come back from injury and in all likelihood is not 100% fit yet. Some people have very short memories on this forum.

Yes, Ferdinand is maybe a better footballer all around, but if you're talking about defending and all the components that make a great defender, Vidic is better IMO.

He's not just a better all round footballer, he's a better all round defender. Vidic is more specialized in certain areas but as a whole package Ferdinand is better.


Is Vidic fast? Is Vidic good on the ball? Not really, not to the quality of Rio that's for sure. Rio is also equally good at heading, tackling, passing, positioning....basically, everything Vidic can do, Rio can do equally well. And has a few more qualities that Vida doesn't. Rio is the most complete defender in the world, it's crazy that that's even debatable.


Yeah CROoney and Abo :thumbsup:

First let's list the members who rate Vidic ahead of Ferdinand:


Crooney
abo
canto
004
Cappy
Berbatov08
christianoharleiro
piazza
moondog
ivica1983
Edit - now updated with:
16-Keano-16
red devil jeff
RN10
Sownak27
IanDangerously


Then let's talk about Vidic being an average defender when he arrived.
I think he had a rocky a start, but that didn't make him average. He was good when he came and now I rate him as THE best defender in the world. Ahead of Ferdinand.

He probably is the best defender in the world at this moment in time, but Ferdinand has been out injured this season. It's only this season people are raving so much about Vidic, but for the last two years Ferdinand has been the best in the world

Ferdinand and Vidic have benefited from each other, but Vidic commits less errors and is more consistent than Ferdinand. If you want to argue this point, it is you who should be watching the games closer.

Again, rubbish. He has completely cut the errors and lack of concentration out of his game. I watch the games very closely and I don't remember him committing errors in the last two years.

I think Rio's reputation might be blurring your opinion.

His reputation for lacking concentration you mean? That just makes no sense.

This season Nemanja Vidic has been head and shoulders above Rio Ferdinand. He has been an absolute rock and the defence does not look as solid without him.

Vidic + Evans > Ferdinand + Evans

Current form and without injuries I agree, but on the basis of the last two seasons (when we won two league and a European Cup) Rio was the better defender.

As for the attributes that make a great defender, you use being great on the ball? Surely that is a prerequisite for playing at Man Utd?

So Rio might be better on the ball and might be a bit faster. What about concentration levels?
Vidic commits far less errors than Rio Ferdinand.

Yawn same media rubbish yawn. He doesn't commit errors and hasn't done for two years.


Talking about using the ball. In terms of distribution Ferdinand might be better, but I've noticed that Vidic passes the ball back to his goalkeeper more accurately than Ferdinand. Van der Sar almost always looks much more comfortable kicking a ball he receives from Vidic than from Ferdinand and that again is more important in terms of defending than distributing the balls nicely to the midfielders. In which Vidic is not totally useless either.

So his pass backs are better? Haha. That's the worst argument I've heard for judging defenders ever. Seriously, Rio is always looking for a forward pass to get the attack moving, that's a better quality than passing backwards ffs :rolleyes:

You are right that both of them do some things equally well, but Vidic is braver, stronger in the tackle, a better header of the ball, so when it comes to DEFENDING, it's Vidic for me.

You say composure is one of the attributes that they are equally good in, but I would disagree. Vidic is cooler, more composed customer for me than Ferdinand.

There isn't a defender in the world with more composure than Ferdinand. This gets crazier and crazier.

As babyseniorita says in her post WHEN Rio is top of his game, he is the best defender in the world, but how often have we seen that this season?

We haven't seen it this season, but we saw it over the past two seasons, hence my reference to people having short memories. Rio was the best in the world for two straight years. Vidic has been the best in the world for six months, yet everyone in this thread say he's been a better player for United overall. Fucking joke.

Man, I'm not saying Ferdinand is anything less than top class and I've already said that my first assertion that Vidic makes Rio look good is exaggerated, but Vidic is more important to Ferdinand than otherwise.

Plus Vidic scores goals! 6 so far this season.
That makes him joint 5th top scorer in a United squad full of attackers.

If I had to choose between Ferdinand and Vidic going in to an important game, I would chose Nemanja Vidic.




- this is poor form Booooo! We don't agree with zuco, so we must be mindless sheep, who don't orm our own opinion.

Where did I say that?

If you're saying that Rio has been better than Vidic this season, you are the one who needs to watch the games closer and not let reputations cloud your judgement!
Again, where did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth please, it's not nice ;)



My last post in this thread. It's ridiculous, it really is.
 

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Jaap Stam was immense....that strength of his with his massive 6'3 14st frame..... the way he just brushed every player aside:eek:.....what a rock! He commanded so much respect!!

You also have to remember that he had to contend with constant changes in the defence with the likes of Silvestre, May, injury prone johnsen beside him and Bosnich, Barthez, Taibi (arrggh) behind him throughout the years. He had a burden on his shoulders but he held everything together and was still above the rest of the defenders in the premiership and world! I remember Johann Cruyff describing him as a one man defence! I think even ferguson would admit it deep down! That for me is what makes him even more great and stand out as the best!
 

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Stam was possible the best out of the three because he was stronger than both and was probably better in terms of 'concentration' than rio (even though the last two years prior to this season, i cant fault him at all for that) and he was less foul prone than vidic.

Vidic commits more fouls in dangerous set peice areas than rio does because his reading of the game is not as good as rios and is abit more 'clumsy/wild' i his challenges...this was shown in the game against liverpool yesterday and a few other times during the season when the opposotion scored as a result of a freekick given away from vidic.

Vidic is better in the air than rio imo, he always connects with a cross now so i dont argue that.

I would not say vidic is a better tackler than rio, but i would say he tackles more frequently than rio. Maybe its because rio needs to do less tackling because he a better reader of the game or maybe its because he is not prepared to get as dirty as vidic. I do think they would get equal marks in this though.

In terms of interceptions and stopping the oppositions flowing game/through balls, rio is clearly better due to his better reading of the game. Not saying vidic is bad because he has been getting better and better since playing with rio to now having a great mind too but its still not the same sharpness as rio. Maybe rio reads the game better because he is a better footballer so he understands attackers better i dont know, but its clear rio reads the game possibly better than almost anyone.

Vidic is a better/bigger thread from corners because again, he is a better header of the ball imo and is more wild than rio.

However what i would say is that vidic this season>>>rio ferdinand. I would not argue with anyone on this. Vidic has been immense, given us so many vital goals and been an absolute rock in defence.

However rio over the last two seasons was the best and was the best in the world for two years without doubt in my mind so unless vidic can keep this up for another year or two, i'll give this to rio.

When rio was on top form he would not make the mistakes that vidic made yesterday imo. He reads the game better and on top form, ive not seen many players ever handle rio apart from funnily enough yakubu who turned him with both speed and strenght a few times but apart from that, rio on top form has had the best players in his pocket. Yesterday was vidic' night to show how to hand a player like torres and quite frankly, he failed. But he is allowed to have off game because of how great he has been and also it could just be one of those days.

I personally believe rio is an amazing defender and even though he has been shaky this season, he really has never got going at all.

So at the moment, i would go like this...

1- stam/rio
2- vidic

If any one of those would get the title, it would be stam. But vidic is not a distant second, its just not reached the peaks of rio yet imo who when on top form is without doubt the best defender in the world because he has everything and more a defender could want.

However if vidic' keeps up this form of immense defending for another 15-18 months and keeps popping up with a goal too, he'll have cemented that best defender in the world title for keeps. However its too early for him yet imo even though this season he has been the best; i dont question that at all!

pz! :cool:
 

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Good post United_OG.

I've just noticed that the fact there is a debate over who is better between Ferdinand and Vidic just goes to show that Manutd have two world class central defenders at the club now! The margins are pretty small between them as it looks. Back in Stam's day there was never a question or debate on who was the best so he really was the only one great defender at the club who held it all together for them.
 

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I am a massive Jaap Stam fan and echoing a few posts earlier, I was gutted when we sold him to Lazio. I like Vidic, his heart and determination, but for me he lacks that poise on the ball that the other two have and does lack experience at times. Rio, is the best current defender in Europe, enough said.

Rio and Jaap.
 
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