[scottsati]

lets be honest after watching the last few games-lets forget all the fancy trickery and sublime football and concentrate on getting the basics right??? agreed??
its the basics we are FAILING to get right, lets work on those first and the rest will come, what an embarassing catalogue of ****-ups for the best team in the world......

passing- even our best passers of the ball are to blame,i've never seen so many passes go astray or straight to the opposition

movement- where is it? players standing next to each other, not moving for a pass or just walking into position after the moment has gone does not pass for movement in my book,no one looking to run into space

tracking back- non existent, it why the defence has beed SWAMPED as teams decide to attack us at every opportunity

tackling- piss poor

heading- villa and porto both won balls in the air they had NO right to, even their smallest players were outjumping us

tiredness- someone give the guys some lucozade or rest them

 

[marty davidson]

I agree with you mate

 

[Giggsy the Legend]

Agree with basics, but still playing sh!t regarding defending, passing ball, tackling, i think some cnut has slapped a curse on us (witchdoctor) or some sort :blink:

 

[peterswellman]

Ill just talk about movemenet for the moment. Did anyone else noticed when VDS made a save and was looking for a quick counter-attack(our strong point) no one was moving for him. He kept having to roll the ball to Scholes and the speed of the break was at a snails pace. This allowed Porto time to get abck into position. We're a counter attacking team, Tevez should have been introduced earlier and ronaldo should have come deeper to recieve and set us on our way.

The rest of your points were spot on btw. Excellent post Scotty.:thumbsup:

 

[hatedastarfish]

Ill just talk about movemenet for the moment. Did anyone else noticed when VDS made a save and was looking for a quick counter-attack(our strong point) no one was moving for him. He kept having to roll the ball to Scholes and the speed of the break was at a snails pace. This allowed Porto time to get abck into position. We're a counter attacking team, Tevez should have been introduced earlier and ronaldo should have come deeper to recieve and set us on our way.

The rest of your points were spot on btw. Excellent post Scotty.:thumbsup:

Yeah the speed of the counter attacks were extremely slow, it went backwards if I remember correctly a few times as no one was showing and looking for the ball. Plus alot of the time when we had the ball in advanced positions, support was slow to arrive.

Scott well done

 

[shiven]

I couldn't agree more really..!
Our passing was shocking last night and even Scholesy had a nightmare, his passing % must have been a all time low, but anyway like you sais we have to get back to basics now..
I've been saying for the last few weeks that's only a matter of time that we get back to form and start performing again, but now i'm not sure when that's going to happen..

 

[Stephen]

Ill just talk about movemenet for the moment. Did anyone else noticed when VDS made a save and was looking for a quick counter-attack(our strong point) no one was moving for him. He kept having to roll the ball to Scholes and the speed of the break was at a snails pace. This allowed Porto time to get abck into position. We're a counter attacking team, Tevez should have been introduced earlier and ronaldo should have come deeper to recieve and set us on our way.

The rest of your points were spot on btw. Excellent post Scotty.:thumbsup:

Ronaldo was the only one. Plenty of times he was in so much space down the wing, then he got moody when the defender came across and VDS couldn't punt it to him. Agree with you.

 

[scottsati]

Ill just talk about movemenet for the moment. Did anyone else noticed when VDS made a save and was looking for a quick counter-attack(our strong point) no one was moving for him. He kept having to roll the ball to Scholes and the speed of the break was at a snails pace. This allowed Porto time to get abck into position. We're a counter attacking team, Tevez should have been introduced earlier and ronaldo should have come deeper to recieve and set us on our way.

The rest of your points were spot on btw. Excellent post Scotty.:thumbsup:

agreed totally!!!!!!!!!!

there was a point half-way through the first half-porto had just had an attack break down, VDS had the ball and most of the porto players were in our half...what happened next made me smile more out of disbelief than anything.........10 united outfield players all casually jogged up the CENTRE of the pitch...i was like WTF??????

no one darting left and right, no defender coming back to get the ball so he could look up and release someone down the wing no-one boming in forward- no just 10 players jogging lazily up the centre of the park in the closest ever bunch i've seen - they could all of held hands-it made me smile as it was pitiful to watch- i remember playing kids football when i was 10 and getting told off for that.

 

[hatedastarfish]

Question for me is, can some of these traits be negated somewhat in training? No doubt about it, SAF saw it. And I'm sure the coaches did too.

 

[peterswellman]

agreed totally!!!!!!!!!!

there was a point half-way through the first half-porto had just had an attack break down, VDS had the ball and most of the porto players were in our half...what happened next made me smile more out of disbelief than anything.........10 united outfield players all casually jogged up the CENTRE of the pitch...i was like WTF??????

no one darting left and right, no defender coming back to get the ball so he could look up and release someone down the wing no-one boming in forward- no just 10 players jogging lazily up the centre of the park in the closest ever bunch i've seen - they could all of held hands-it made me smile as it was pitiful to watch- i remember playing kids football when i was 10 and getting told off for that.

That's for sure. There was a lack of leadership on the field totally to boot. No one was willing to hand out a rollicking. Rio's presence was badly needed. Scholes and Carrick are far too quiet. There is no way if Keano was around he would have stood for that. Tbf, Rio or Neville wouldn't have either.

I agree totally with the lack of movement. It's one of the first things you're told when you're young. Don't stand still, keep moving and make yourself available to take on the ball.

 

[peterswellman]

Question for me is, can some of these traits be negated somewhat in training? No doubt about it, SAF saw it. And I'm sure the coaches did too.

It's more to do with leadership if you ask me. Carrick sees Ronaldo doing it, Scholes sees Carrick doing it, Nani sees this. It's almost like they feel this is acceptable. That they're so good they don't have to work to get back the ball. When it's clearly not the case.

 

[hatedastarfish]

It's more to do with leadership if you ask me. Carrick sees Ronaldo doing it, Scholes sees Carrick doing it, Nani sees this. It's almost like they feel this is acceptable. That they're so good they don't have to work to get back the ball. When it's clearly not the case.

True if there were more vocal figure's in the side who could lead by example it would be a plus. Still, not tracking back and basic passes going astray are down to the individual

 

[peterswellman]

True if there were more vocal figure's in the side who could lead by example it would be a plus. Still, not tracking back and basic passes going astray are down to the individual

For sure but in the Keane regime, it would only happen once and he would tear them a new arsehole. There is no way in hell Keane would put up with some of the ***** we saw last night.

 

[RN10]

Agrre with you 100% we should not be letting players win high balls considering the defenders we've got. I just can't wait till rio comes back and wes brown who i think would have been alot better than o'shea was last night. He was pure shit allnight

 

[Stephen]

Agrre with you 100% we should not be letting players win high balls considering the defenders we've got. I just can't wait till rio comes back and wes brown who i think would have been alot better than o'shea was last night. He was pure shit allnight

God knows why people still stick up for O'Shea, he ****s up too much to be involved in the big games.

Couldn't give a shit if he's a good squad player, as we have 3 (plus Fletcher and Hargreaves) who are all much better right backs than him.

Brown, Neville, Rafael, Hargreaves, Fletcher > O'Shea. At right back.
Evra and Fabio > O'Shea at left back.
Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Brown, Neville > O'Shea at centre back.

Left back he offers cover, but when Fabio becomes more involved there isn't really a place for him.

God knows why he is coming up to 10 years here.

Not good enough. Just because he can play in any position, everyone's up his arse.

 

[RN10]

yep agreeing with you there stephen i think he's a good player o have but only for cameo's not half the season like he has been this season, he can't play well for more than 5-10 games a season, i just can't wait till rafael and wes are back i really can't

 

[Richie]

Agree with the original post. While I think we have many big problems that need addressing which I have included in a thread I started myself; in the mean time we really need to get back to doing the basic things well just to get back on track for the rest of the season.

 

[desmondo]

Question for me is, can some of these traits be negated somewhat in training? No doubt about it, SAF saw it. And I'm sure the coaches did too.

I'm not sure about that. I think the team have been drilled in playing slow football designed to keep possession. The way to keep possession when you have got the ball is to take a lot of touches and pass the ball conservatively with care. In defence the best way to keep your shape is to not tackle and just zonally protect your area of the pitch and stay on your feet. The problem is that this football is suited to a World Cup game played in severe heat. When a team like porto turn up the pace and tempo and exploit the space and predict our passes (let's face it a lot of our passes were very predictable) then we get found out. I think this is the essence of the problem. A lot of teams have watched us and figured out how to exploit the way we play. We have been sussed out - it's time to change things because right now it's not working. My gut feeling is that the coaches are not ready to try plan B yet.

I play tennis , and the one thing you learn is that when things are going against you badly then you try something different and if things are going well then you don't experiment. It's time for us to try somethig new. Even if it means starting with macheda and wellbeck and introducing a bit of physical power and sheer pace. What about getting manucho back from hull and hoofing it up to him. At least the opposition would not expect it!!!