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The difference between Forest and Madrid is simple.

Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. They are the pinnacle of world football. They are a special club.
 

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The difference between Forest and Madrid is simple.

Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. They are the pinnacle of world football. They are a special club.
If by "Special" you mean match fixing, ref battering, dodgy transfer deals and public tapping ups then you're probably right.
 

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Nottingham forest have more European Cups than Inter Milan, Arsenal and Chelsea put together, are they a 'bigger fish' than them?

Milan have a better pedigree in Europe than Madrid do. They've won it in the 60's, 80's, 90's and 00's, aswell as making a final in the 50's, not including the other 3 finals they've been in.

Just because you won 5 back-to-back CL's about a million years ago when European football was just getting started, therefore easier to win, doesn't make you the best IMO.

Milan have a better pedigree in the Champions League than Madrid do...

oh, we're just as 'big a fish' as the names Iive mentioned here btw...
Inter has 2. 64 and 65. La grande Inter. Fachetti and them guys.

I know you hate Real, but the fact is they are the most successful club in Europe, bar none.
 

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Inter has 2. 64 and 65. La grande Inter. Fachetti and them guys.

I know you hate Real, but the fact is they are the most successful club in Europe, bar none.
Ah yeah, I meant the same.

I know they are the most successful, but even Fergie aknowledges that there record is overated and Milan are the benchmark in terms of CL success.

And btw, Milan are the most successful club in the world when it comes to International honours...
 

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Ah yeah, I meant the same.

I know they are the most successful, but even Fergie aknowledges that there record is overated and Milan are the benchmark in terms of CL success.

And btw, Milan are the most successful club in the world when it comes to International honours...
There's no doubting Milan's pedigree in Europe.

However, the UEFA Super Cup is hardly something to write home about. The Cup Winner's Cup is defunct, and they've never won the UEFA Cup. Not to mention the Mickey Mouseness of the Intercontinental Cup/ FIFA world Club cup. To be honest, I'd rather lose in the quarters of the Champions League than win UEFA cup.
 

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There's no doubting Milan's pedigree in Europe.

However, the UEFA Super Cup is hardly something to write home about. The Cup Winner's Cup is defunct, and they've never won the UEFA Cup. Not to mention the Mickey Mouseness of the Intercontinental Cup/ FIFA world Club cup. To be honest, I'd rather lose in the quarters of the Champions League than win UEFA cup.
7 CL's, in numerous decades, the most European/International trophies (ignoring a CL that was robbed off them when they lost to Marsaiile) and a club which has a lot of class, for me, is better than a club with 9 CL's, 5 of which came 50 odd years ago when it was easier to win, and a club who's history is extremely tainted in underhand tactics in every department from transfers to referees to violence.
 

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7 CL's, in numerous decades, the most European/International trophies (ignoring a CL that was robbed off them when they lost to Marsaiile) and a club which has a lot of class, for me, is better than a club with 9 CL's, 5 of which came 50 odd years ago when it was easier to win, and a club who's history is extremely tainted in underhand tactics in every department from transfers to referees to violence.
So the fact that they won all those years ago, means it should be disregarded? There's reasons they won those 5, they were unstoppable, I doubt that side would have a hard time winning those in any decade. And speaking of easier to win, was it? Since the format changed in after the 92 final, Marseille, Liverpool, and Milan (the latter two times) could hardly have been considered the best team in Europe. I agree that its probably harder to win it now, but I don't for a minute think it was so much easier that they should be forgotten about.

Not to mention, Milan has been relegated for match fixing.
 

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So the fact that they won all those years ago, means it should be disregarded? There's reasons they won those 5, they were unstoppable, I doubt that side would have a hard time winning those in any decade. And speaking of easier to win, was it? Since the format changed in after the 92 final, Marseille, Liverpool, and Milan (the latter two times) could hardly have been considered the best team in Europe. I agree that its probably harder to win it now, but I don't for a minute think it was so much easier that they should be forgotten about.

Not to mention, Milan has been relegated for match fixing.

Wrong. They were never found guilty of match fixing. One of there fans, who was a well known, influential millionaire called the referee designator and complained about dicisions and did the usual thing you'd expect from someone complaining about a referee.

In Italy its illegal to do that, and since this was an influential person, Milan got docked points. (They never got relagated)

Football in the 50's was easier to win as there were less teams. It was totally new. Of course in the 60's/70's/80's it improved. I'm not saying that weren't the best team at the time, but it was easier to be that best team.

Madrid in the Franco days WOULD match fix, threaten referee's, loan out player to team who are about to play against there rivals for just 1 match, hire hitmen to beat up rival players before an upcoming game.

Franco FC are a club bereft of any class, which takes away from there achievements.
 

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Wrong. They were never found guilty of match fixing. One of there fans, who was a well known, influential millionaire called the referee designator and complained about dicisions and did the usual thing you'd expect from someone complaining about a referee.

In Italy its illegal to do that, and since this was an influential person, Milan got docked points. (They never got relagated)

.
"his success was repeated in 1969, and followed by an Intercontinental Cup title the same year. Following retirement of Gianni Rivera, Milan started a declining period, during which they were involved in the 1980 Totonero scandal and were relegated to Serie B as punishment, for their first time in history. The scandal was centred on a betting syndicate paying players and officials to fix the outcome of matches. Milan quickly returned back to Serie A, but returned to Serie B only one year later as they ended in the relegation zone their 1981-82 Serie A campaign."

No, you're wrong. Milan is bereft of class.
 

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"his success was repeated in 1969, and followed by an Intercontinental Cup title the same year. Following retirement of Gianni Rivera, Milan started a declining period, during which they were involved in the 1980 Totonero scandal and were relegated to Serie B as punishment, for their first time in history. The scandal was centred on a betting syndicate paying players and officials to fix the outcome of matches. Milan quickly returned back to Serie A, but returned to Serie B only one year later as they ended in the relegation zone their 1981-82 Serie A campaign."

No, you're wrong. Milan is bereft of class.
The difference being that was players doing it, not the club itself:

Totonero 1980 or Totonero was a scandal of match fixing in Italy in 1980 in Italian Serie A and Serie B.

It was uncovered at March 23, 1980 by Guardia di Finanza, after the spalling of two roman commerciant, Fabio Trinca and Massimo Cruciani, that said some italian football-players sold the football-matches for money.

Principal protagonists in this scandale were A.C. Milan, Lazio, Perugia, Bologna, Avellino (Serie A), Taranto and Palermo (Serie B).


You have to differentiate players who act independtantly from decisions hat were made by the club. If not then we would be one of the most classless clubs about due to Keane's violence and Cantona's kung fu kick.

If you followed Milan, read about the history with the Maldini legacy (Not just PaolO, Cesar too, and hoprfully the Maldini who's in the academy right now, check on youtube for vids on him). You have players like Baresi and Van Besten - players who played with class. If you hear about what they do for players and clubs who aren't even connected with them, then you'd feel differently.

Milan are a classy club, though not as classy as us ;)
 

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The difference being that was players doing it, not the club itself:



Milan are a classy club, though not as classy as us ;)
Couldn't one of the higher ups do one of these: "hey dumbass, stop doing that, we're gonna get in trouble you retard!" ?

I could live with Milan winning, at least they have Gatusso. He's the man. And I think we've finally agreed on something with that part in bold. :thumbsup:
 

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I'm slightly worried that Inter could be our biggest rivals..
I mean United played them of the pitch at the San Siro,
But they are well capable of getting a score draw at Old Trafford..
I would make me sick to see Mourinho running up that touchline again..
 

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I have changed my opinion during the last month. I thought Barca will be the biggest rival, but they are out of form. Chelsea is the team with the best players and have new good manager. Drogba is improving his form with every game. It will really be a tough game if we face them.
 

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I have changed my opinion during the last month. I thought Barca will be the biggest rival, but they are out of form. Chelsea is the team with the best players and have new good manager. Drogba is improving his form with every game. It will really be a tough game if we face them.
I think at first better to be passed Inter and after that to be discussed any rivals.
 

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Nottingham forest have more European Cups than Inter Milan, Arsenal and Chelsea put together, are they a 'bigger fish' than them?

Milan have a better pedigree in Europe than Madrid do. They've won it in the 60's, 80's, 90's and 00's, aswell as making a final in the 50's, not including the other 3 finals they've been in.

Just because you won 5 back-to-back CL's about a million years ago when European football was just getting started, therefore easier to win, doesn't make you the best IMO.

Milan have a better pedigree in the Champions League than Madrid do...

oh, we're just as 'big a fish' as the names Iive mentioned here btw...
7 CL's, in numerous decades, the most European/International trophies (ignoring a CL that was robbed off them when they lost to Marsaiile) and a club which has a lot of class, for me, is better than a club with 9 CL's, 5 of which came 50 odd years ago when it was easier to win, and a club who's history is extremely tainted in underhand tactics in every department from transfers to referees to violence.
Ok, 1st of all, if it was so easier to win back then, how come they played their 5 finals against 4 different teams, AC Milan included, and no one managed to beat them? They had a real dream team in those days, and that's a fact.

but you want to talk numbers, let's talk numbers.
Real 9 wins and 3 runner ups, meaning 12 finals.
AC 7 wins a 4 runner ups, meaning 11 finals.

Semi-final apearences: Real 21 - AC 13

Real has the record of participations in the champions cup, with 15, United has the record of participations in the Champions League, with 13

If you only focus on the CL, United has the best performance, with 140 games played, and 257 points, with real behind with 148, then Barça, then Milan.

Lastly, there's only 5 clubs that have the UEFA Badge of Honour, meaning 5 or more wins (Real, Milan, Liverpool), OR 3 wins in a row (Real, Ajax, Bayern Munich), and Real qualify on both counts.


Only 3 teams have ever won the 3 UEFA trophies, Juve, Ajax and Bayern.

Now, the other cups, Real won 2 UEFA cups, AC won none, and the late Cup winners' Cup, AC won 2 and lost 1 final, and Real lost both finals it played in.

So, so far, still pretty much a very close race, with Real ahead by a bit. So if you want to add the Super Cup, an official trophy, yes, but how serious do people take it? Most teams lose more than they win, Barça, 2 out if 6, Real, Porto and United, with 1 win in 3 participations, then yes, AC is ahead on trophies, with 5 wins and 2 losses.

One thing is obvious to me. Whomever the rival is, it HAS to be one of those 5 teams with the badge. The Champions Cup and League now are the pinacle of European football, and that symbol marks excelence on the part of those teams in THAT competition.

So, I would order those 5 teams like this:
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Liverpool
Bayern Munich
Ajax

I would include Juve, for historical reasons, but they, like United, lack the badge of honour, but I do think they deserve a mention, because they're the only team outside these 5 that has ever won the 3 major european trophies, something that can never be done, unless of course, you only need a CL to complete the set...

PS- As for Notingham, I don't think you can count a club that has double the european trophies than it has home titles ;) BUt they did have a great team back in the day.
 
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