[desmondo]

After today's defeat at Arsenal I have come to the conclusion that somehow this team is not quite hungry enough. I don't blame Fergie or the Players that much , but I think it has to be faced that winning 3 in a row is a tall order and doesn't happen very much.

The reason? Even a great team cannot normally sustain the great hunger and desire necessary to win three titles in a row. Look at the teams around us. Liverpool are absolutely starved of Premier League success , Arsenal haven't won for 4 years and were obviously smarting today from last week , and Chelsea have all sorts of reasons to be hurting badly after last season.

We have played all these teams now and the one thing that has seemed to come across is that crucial 5% extra hunger that we need is just not there. Don't get me wrong , I think there is desire there but it's hard to replicate the way that Chelsea must feel about the League and Liverpool also.

Can we as fans honestly say that we feel the same way about this season as we would do if we hadn't won the League for 5 years? Or 20 years? Me? Just the thought of Liverpool profiting from our poor start and winning the darn thing is enough to make me queezy. I spent years as a teenager craving any Title whilst watching Hansen and co clear up the table. Yuk!

My point is that unless this team starts to learn how to hurt a bit and get really hungry again it will not win the league and it will not fulfil it's potential. Liverpool and Arsenal beat us IMO because they just wanted it that 5% more than we did. We did not match Arsenal's desire until we were 2-0 down and then it was when we had no choice but to fight hard to try and come back.

I do see desire in this team and I see heart , but I don't see that extra bit of urgency and sheer determination that I see in the others. There's just this tiny subtle bit of complacency there that means we don't quite have enough edge and bite to us. It shows up in sloppy finishing, casual defending and throwing away leads. They need something to galvanise them , something to make them hurt a bit more inside , something that will give them that "backs to the wall" mentality like Arsenal had today. They had it we didn't , Liverpool had it , we didn't - both games lost. Maybe an enforced diet (trophy less season) is on it's way and a clear out of Ronaldo who still has his mind elsewhere?

It's hard to stomach , I'm as hungry now to catch Liverpool's 18 titles as I ever was , I think the fans should remind this team who they are playing for.

Spleen vented , I'm off to have a sandwich.

 

[Aaron92]

Excellent point; I never thought of this.

This probably is the main reason why we are getting that 'second-half syndrome' as some people call it. We are just lacking hunger.

Well done desmondo, great thread.

 

[thekeanefella]

i agree with ya des, good post with some interesting points.

 

[Fergaiste]

excellent post and it isnt a coincidence today that the best united players imo tpday were up and coming players like rafael and andersonor fringe players like fletcher. Although i cant fault Vidic who is the real warrior of this united team. Hopefully this game will be a watershed for the team and finally rid the team of the complacency malaise runnning through the club

 

[Keano!]

100% agree with you mate.

I remember we had a thread very similar to this one before, and I went on a huge
rant about the players not realising how good they had it and how we need to
not win the title, I know, sounds stupid...but doing that would mean they didn't
have it and theres hunger to win it off the opposition.

Liverpool must have had a big breakfast before the prem arrived...



But seriously, its true. I haven't seen the hunger that we had last season, and if
relenquishing our title this season means a more hungry side next season then
so be it. When I watch United, I don't see the conviction of the last two seasons.

• Defence is all over the place at times.
• Hargreaves can't keep fit
• Neville, Gigsy and Scholes aren't getting younger
• Ronaldo seems to miss every chance now (My mate, a Boro fan, suggested he
  was doing it on purpose as he wanted to leave....I laughed my head off....then
  thought for a bit..........then laughed some more. But...)

Theres a thread running on this at the moment...but Carlos leaving Sir Alex's side is really affected the teams on field play.





But at the end of the day, its football...it makes you cheer, shout, sing, travel, cry,
jump, kiss, record, pay, dance, moan, rant, complain, reminisce, love....

You win everything for a while....and then your on top of the world...but with that
comes complacency and the loss of some titles and records....and its then you
really feel like you've hit rock bottom....but as football does, there'll be highes
again.....


I've always been wondering this and that is...


United WILL go a time when we don't win the title almost every season...the time
WILL come when United are a mid table side....

...and its then I wonder, who'll stick around and support them then, just because
they don't win the trophys, **** off and support the team winning in that era...


I have to say, not hoping or wishing obviously, but a bloddy relegation battle
must be one hell of a great experience, eh? Tension ALL season...EVERY game's a
big one....

............wonder if I'll ever experience it in my lifetime....






And here we are in November, 4th, a game in hand and we'r in doubt! The joys
of football!! lol




.

 

[evrasourbestplayer]

everyone successful eventually becomes a victim of said success...if man utd played as good as they possibly can every week, wed win the title every year with 114 points, sometimes im glad when the team goes through a rough patch, makes it more exciting.

maybe not for leeds fans haha

 

[versa]

Agree.

Post double winning season blues? Like what happened after the treble winning season in 1999?

There is a big difference between wanting to win and dying to win. Who doesn't want to win? But not everybody is dying to win. The hunger is just not the same.

 

[SALFORD RED]

.

 

[Ajant]

I think against Arsenal there was very little hunger from the players to actually win the game, when Giggs and Rafael came on, they WANTED to make an impact to try rescue something for the team. However, I think VDS is past it, as is Neville(by a long shot), Scholes, Giggs to an extent and Rio hasn't performed well for a few weeks. I still believe we'd be better off starting Tevez over Rooney....

Anyway, still a long way to go but I agree with the first post pretty much completely.

 

[Rahul]

I also agree will the the topic starter.

I haven't seen the hunger we had last season or for that matter the hunger we had in the 06-07 season when we were desperate to win the title again. The players do want to win but they are really complacent. The game against Hull City was the best example of it. Still I think that the players can still win the title for us and I hope the defeat against Arsenal comes as a wake up call to the players.

I'm really desperate to see United equal Liverpool's record of 18 titles and the very thought of Liverpool winning the title this season and going up by two titles makes me sick. This should be the biggest incentive for the team to perform and win the title for the third year running. We have done this once and we can do this again. I want to see Liverpool get knocked of their fuc*ing perch.

 

[sweet fa]

like it says in the first post to win 3 in a row is a tall order but most teams that get the opportunity are ageing ,most of this utd team are still babies and we should be a lot stronger this year with last seasons arrivals bedded in and 2 extra strikers and ben foster to choose from.
i was really confident at the start of the season but now it will be a very very tall order to catch chelsea and i am beginning to wonder what damage ronaldo did to the teams spirit in the summer because something is very wrong , we go from cantering to struggling in a matter of minutes , ronaldo's scoring goals and hardly celebrating or interacting with the crowd and i suppose some of the crowd are booing him . our players should be buzzing because we are the champions of europe but instead its like we're in the great depression!

 

[cleavers11]

Great post
I 100% agree!
Its like SAF said when we played Liverpool, 'They obviously wanted it more'...fair play to them, 18 years without a Premiership title has to have some effect (kinda took its time though didn't it? haha)
But yeah, I think a boot up the arse for United is essential. When Mourinho was in Chelsea, and they won the title, that was reason to up the game and really push for it. And I love the way were a game in hand, 4th in the league and worrying For me, its a greater reason to be a red and get behind them even more! United's second half performances in the last two games (Arsenal and Celtic) have been great...but it's never good waking up and being 'hungry' when your losing...it should be from the word GO!

Well, 'pool have gotten off to a good start....Chelsea too.......Let us just wait until the last couple of games to see what's really going to happen...that's when it really gets interesting!

Come on you reds!

 

[United_OG]

Hate to go against the grain here but am i the only one who thinks the ON THE PITCH we are not showing any difference to last year in terms of hunger?

I honestly dont think on the pitch that is a problem. Only difference is we seem abit less solid in defense and creating less chances through the middle...like we rely too much on our wingers right now.

Hunger could be a problem though in terms of how much some players are willing to do away from the park, in training etc...like do they have the hunger to work as hard as before or not but i dont know because none of us know what happens in training...they could be working harder than ever before for all we know. Alot of uniteds players are young and i think with the guidance of giggs/neville/fergie etc and seeing what happened to Barcelona after they did what united did...there are enough examples for us to remain hungry, not let ourselves be complacent etc...

Sometimes u just have to give the opposition credit and sometimes things just dont go aswell as you wish...I'm sure we'll be fine come the end of the season

pz!

 

[piazza]

Complacency breeds ill results. I think we're just lacking an axeman in midfield, someone who's gonna give the side that kick in the ass that teams need. Ya know, we need Roy Keane again.

 

[desmondo]

Hate to go against the grain here but am i the only one who thinks the ON THE PITCH we are not showing any difference to last year in terms of hunger?

I honestly dont think on the pitch that is a problem. Only difference is we seem abit less solid in defense and creating less chances through the middle...like we rely too much on our wingers right now.

Hunger could be a problem though in terms of how much some players are willing to do away from the park, in training etc...like do they have the hunger to work as hard as before or not but i dont know because none of us know what happens in training...they could be working harder than ever before for all we know. Alot of uniteds players are young and i think with the guidance of giggs/neville/fergie etc and seeing what happened to Barcelona after they did what united did...there are enough examples for us to remain hungry, not let ourselves be complacent etc...

Sometimes u just have to give the opposition credit and sometimes things just dont go aswell as you wish...I'm sure we'll be fine come the end of the season

pz!

I'm not sure we'll be fine at all. Our hunger may still be there somewhere but at the moment Chelsea , Liverpool and Arsenal are absolutely starving and we have to start matching that.

As for performances being the "same"? I expect the performances to get BETTER because we have new players and players settling in + the confidence that comes from being Champions.

It's the "i'm sure we'll be fine " attitude that's killing us. We need an edge and we need it now. Chelsea have that hurt from the CL final to drive them , Liverpool have been to the edge and back with last minute winners (wigan, man city , boro) They beat us on heart alone at anfield - and I personally haven't recovered from that performance. If I was out there at anfield I'd be absolute rubbish but I tell you what I'd be utterly knackered and emotionally exhausted from all the effort I would have put in.

What we need right now is some mini crisis to shock our players out of this nonsense.

 

[desmondo]

like it says in the first post to win 3 in a row is a tall order but most teams that get the opportunity are ageing ,most of this utd team are still babies and we should be a lot stronger this year with last seasons arrivals bedded in and 2 extra strikers and ben foster to choose from.
i was really confident at the start of the season but now it will be a very very tall order to catch chelsea and i am beginning to wonder what damage ronaldo did to the teams spirit in the summer because something is very wrong , we go from cantering to struggling in a matter of minutes , ronaldo's scoring goals and hardly celebrating or interacting with the crowd and i suppose some of the crowd are booing him . our players should be buzzing because we are the champions of europe but instead its like we're in the great depression!

It does feel this season like the football equivalent of the dreaded second album syndrome.

 

[Keano4taoiseach]

Hunger has to be instilled in the players by their manager though.
The players had all the skills and tricks on saturday but we did sit off Arsenal too much. We never got stuck into them. As I alluded to in another thread, Keano or a fired up Hargreaves would have psyched players like Diaby out of the game before it even started.

I have confidence that we won't be embarrassed by these kids a second time. Next time will be a completely different story.

 

[United_OG]

It's the "i'm sure we'll be fine " attitude that's killing us.

What we need right now is some mini crisis to shock our players out of this nonsense.

I've honestly never though about it like that before and its true, if the players keep telling themselves 'well be fine' and not working hard to improve on whats letting us down so far...ie not converting chances...then you are right and thats a good point you make.

I still dont believe we are lacking hunger though, maybe we're not as hungry as the other teams u mentioned...im not sure BUT i think its natural everyone will want to beat us even more than ever before with us being so successful last year.

I personally dont think we need a mini crisis to sort it out...lol...You're a cold dude!!...'Shoch our players out of this nonsense'...lol!! Thats cold man but who knows, thats maybe what it needs but im an optimist in general but i do try and stay objective.

I still think we'll be fine (oops i said it again lol) but yeh you make some valid concerns.



pz

 

[desmondo]

The reason why I said it might take a crisis is because that's what happened to Arsenal. Liverpool are also in crisis (starved of Titles) and Chelsea are still smarting from Moscow. We are the only team with nothing to get us hurting , but maybe if things continue like this that will change . My feeling is that it might be too late like it was too late against Arsenal.

There's nothing like a crisis to fire a team up to greater levels of play.

 

[RedForceRising]

It does feel this season like the football equivalent of the dreaded second album syndrome.

Love that analogy!

BTW, it's also called the sophomore album syndrome....

Anyway, you;re onto something, because there is a slight drop in "eagerness" on the pitch. It's slight, not much, but it makes a difference.

To my mind the second goal is indicative of this.

Arsenal strung a bunch of passes together and not a single United player manage to put his boot on the ball - shameful!

It's the players who have to motivate themselves though.

The manager can coax them as much as wants, but at the end of the day it's the players who have to decide "I'm gonna give 110%, because I have a chance to be part of history".

The players have to decide for themselves that they're not going to let the opposition pass the ball into the penalty box, get free headers etc.