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Right, I resisted from posting a thread pointing out whats going wrong during our recent bad spell because I thought it was down to a dip in confidence and morale, that could easily be solved. So when Macheda scored the winner the other night, I was convinced that would give us the boost to really go out and outplay teams and win convincingly.

However, last night all the recent problems were still very apparent and clearly the problem was not morale.

To start, I'd like to congratulate Porto on their quick, dynamic attacking football that I think we could learn a lot from. They were a much better footballing side than I had expected and with a bit more luck they could have won the match.

Now I'm going to delve into whats worrying me about our own team.

What kind of champions defend like absolute amateurs when they've just took a lead in the last 5 minutes at home in Europe. It was as if they thought they had already won the game and they had switched off. That is not a winning attitude what so ever. This, to me, points to us not having a proper leader in the team, particularly in midfield. Carrick is far too static most of the game, we know he's good when there's nobody attacking us against the likes of Bolton or somebody, but he doesn't impose himself on the game nearly enough, and they the opposition are in possession he's giving them so much space its unbelievable - a crime that many of our players are guilty of. And the thing is its not an entirely new thing, we have been doing this a lot all season, but we've got away with it because previously teams were playing far too defensively against us. This is why we've failed when good teams come and attack us.

Our play with the ball is far too slow and there is no dynamic movement what so ever. Tevez when we are on the attack has been so uncharacteristically static upfront, he stands there with his back to goal, and when someone plays it into his feet, rather than move towards it to do something quickly he stands there trying to hold the defender off then when it reaches him he's far too close to the defender, tries to turns and end up losing the ball.

- I'd like to take a quick moment to point out that Darren Fletcher and Wayne Rooney are guilty of non of the problems mentioned above -

While Ronaldo's attitude is unhealthy and seriously annoying, he is one of very few brilliant players in our team, and I now hold the belief we cannot afford to let him go.

But our left wing position is currently absolutely appalling and we seriously need to add a new winger to our squad. Park can run all his likes but he just constantly gives the ball away and ruins things for us. He can't lay the ball off at the right time, when he does pass he had the accuracy of a conference player, and we he crosses he rarely hits the ball above stomach height, and invariably hits the first defender as he's not talented enough to consider that if you can't get the ball over a defender you have to go around them. And Nani, he's not good enough and he never will be. He doesn't have nearly the potential we think he has and he's a liability on the team.

Then upfront, we have 3 players who basically play the same dropping deep role, although Berbatov offers something different to both of them it must be said. Tevez however, is not good enough, he offers nothing different to Wayne Rooney, and provides very little overall to the team. I love him for his commitment but he's not enough, especially at anything like his price tag. We need a proper striker who had pace and moves dynamically across the front and gets in behind, that will add to our play positively and score goals.

And our midfield, in answer to someones thread of 'is our midfield overrated' well yes, yes it is. Giggs obviously can only be used sparingly, and I think we have blown his central midfield ability a bit out of proportion since that Chelsea game. He is good yes, but through a match against a good team he probably couldn't handle central midfield, but he is useful as a substitute. Paul Scholes, it pains me to say but lately he just hasn't looked like Paul Scholes. Obviously his fitness and ability to control a game has gone way down this season, but more worryingly lately its looked like his judgment had gone with his passing, and I feel the end is very much close for him. Anderson, he is nothing and he never will be, the only attributes he has are strength and pace. Fletcher, I'm pleased with, he gets stuck in, which influences the team and the crowd, he does things quickly and rarely gives away a pass. Can't really ask for more from Fletcher with his limited technical capabilities. Carrick, we know is technically and positionally very good, but against good sides who attack he's not enough. He can't control a game, he's far too slow with everything he does, he doesn't close people down nearly enough, and he won't gamble on a dangerous forward run. We need someone who can really boss the midfield area when it matters the most.

Our defense, while fragile recently, is good, but is not being well marshaled enough and is starting to make amateur lapses of concentration at key moments.

It just seems like the whole team's bottle has gone completely when the pressure is on. This team is not as great as we thought they were a while a go, not even close. I think we need some really big signings this summer, honestly.

To solve the striker problem, first of all, we need to not sign Tevez and bring a real dynamic striker in who will score plenty of goals.

My top choices that could be available are Eto'o (big talk of him leaving Barcelona at the end of the season) Benzema (will have to move soon and we will have a good chance if Madrid and Barca don't move for him) and Villa (Valencia need to sell players urgently).

Eto'o for me is perfect, he has the right attitude on the pitch, his movement is dynamic, his pace is unbelievable and he is just a lethal goal scorer. His physical presence would also allow him to be the perfect partner for Wayne Rooney upfront, while he could also work well with Berbatov, I could see them playing some good one-two's.

Next is Benzema, who is just a phenomenal talent. He has such intelligence and understanding on the football pitch, his movement is good and his finishing is too. Be potentially could be a future Ballon D'or winner and has the bottle for big matches. He also has the physical presence to be excellent for Wayne Rooney. Could also work wonderfully with Berba.

Villa only comes in third because of his lack of physical presence but I think he would still make a magnificent partner for Rooney or Berbatov. His movement is excellent, he can carry a team when they are down, his finishing is top and he puts goals on plates for other players too.

Then we need to solve the left wing problem - undoubtedly the weakest area of our team. There are 3 players again that stand out above the rest, Ribery, Young, and Silva.

Ribery is the kind of player you crave to have in your team on the big occasion. He's been carrying France and Bayern for a long time, and never lets them down when it really counts. He has pace, can pick a pass, can score and can move dynamically, his crossing isn't great but he otherwise has everything we want from that position.

Ashley Young isn't the player that Ribery is. But, I like to have English players in the team, and since my other solutions don't really include Englishmen he would do okay. He played well against us the other day, he has one thing none of our current wingers have, the ability to whip in a great cross. He can dribble well as well although his movement is something he will need to work on.

David Silva, may struggle at first physically but he has endless technical ability. He is a little wizard. He can dribble, cross, play the killer ball and finish, as well as being very versatile. Would probably be the cheapest of the bunch too as Valencia need to sell up. However there's a good possibility Madrid or Barcelona will move for him and I think he's more likely to choose them over us.

And finally how to solve the central midfield problem. And this one is the most difficult, as there are not many players available who fit the bill, as most of them are already taken by the big clubs.

There is one player that stands out though, Daniel De Rossi. He is a born leader, exactly the kind of leader we need. Similar in style to Roy Keane but I suppose takes more risks. He would marshal the team and make sure they don't loose concentration. He is a superb all around player and can stamp his authority on games. He isn't a Xavi or Fabregas going forward but he's the best available to us. Hopefully with him in the team though, and the other problems fixed we would still have plenty of creativity in the team, while the midfield battle would also be won. I feel that him and Fletcher or Hargreaves could form an Ince & Keane style partnership while the flair play goes on around them. While Carrick could also flourish with De Rossi there and maybe he'd feel more free to roam forward and be creative.

I understand this would take a lot of money, but we're a global business that makes stupid amounts of money and if we really want to consider ourselves great then this is what we have to do.

EDIT: May I point out that I fully realize we could not solve all these problems in one summer without selling Ronaldo, but we could definitely do 2 out of 3 no problem.

If we did however sell Ronaldo for £75m, we could probably buy Ribery (£35m) Silva (£20m) and Eto'o (£15m) with the Ronaldo money alone, then have our own transfer budget to sign De Rossi (£35m). We could then also probably sell Nani (£7m) and Anderson (£6m)

They would be my estimates, so with losing our star player we could fix all problems, but keeping him we could definitely solve 2 out of 3.
 

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It's a great post, and i'm glad i had the patience to stay and read it. You got a realy good point especially on the wingers subject. As for the transfers, i realy realy doubt will ever get one of them unless we sell Ronaldo for the sum that has been rumoured, a abou75 mil pounds. We could get Villa and Silva with this money. But from your list i would prefer Ribery and Benzema the most. The thing about De Rossi is true, but i'm sure De Rossi will never leave Rome. He's a 100% "gladiator" and he'll be their next captain.
 

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Nice post.
I enjoyed reading it.I agree about your opinion for Young.He plays consistently well, and has blinding performances in between.
Consistent, Pace, Good with both feet, great cross on him and a good shot.
He's involved in nearly every goal Villa score, be it assisting or in some way participating in the goal or scoring. He has an excellent free kick and has scored many goals form free-kicks.
He would be a great replacement for Giggs.
 

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" What kind of champions defend like absolute amateurs when they've just took a lead in the last 5 minutes at home in Europe. It was as if they thought they had already won the game and they had switched off "

they were amateur-ish all the game. they havent switched off from nothing.

it seems from your post you judge the players based on the last night's performance.
for example park...until now he was accused of not beeing very efficient in attack, now you accuse him of loosing the ball and ruining things.
park played well throughout the season, he usually wins balls, not loose them...
so it is clearly you judge him based on yesterday's performance.

if it is like that, we should demolish the whole team, except rooney. so lets calm down and think straight.

do you really think a big shopping campain is a must ? i have my doubts. altho i agree with the lack of a good central miedfielder, i dont think we have other problems in midfield and attack.
so i have my doubts in using real madrid's method. shopping big that is...

the big problem we have now is the defence. you focused on other things but failed to mention this.
if you look at our goal scoring records from 2-3 months ago when we were playing very good, and if you compare that with the records from last 2-3 weeks you wont see nothing worse.
ironically we seem to score more now then we did back then ( when we were wining 1-0 almost every game....but we were winning.

but if you compare the records in conceeded goals....THERE IS THE PROBLEM.

i also dont think our defenders are so mentaly weak that they cant recover from liverpool game. i dont think it is that. but what on earth brought them to this amateur-ish level. ? that my friend is the BIG mistery for me. and why all of them ?

i dont say we dont have good players in defense...(ok, maybe we need a quality right-back), because we do and they proved it last season and this one until 1 month ago.

but my god, give me one good reasons why they are some shades now ?
 

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Well done Rich.

I have said some of what you said already. The rest I totally agree with.

There was a lack of leadership on the field totally to boot. No one was willing to hand out a rollicking. Rio's presence was badly needed. Scholes and Carrick are far too quiet. There is no way if Keano was around he would have stood for that. Tbf, Rio or Neville wouldn't have either.
It's more to do with leadership if you ask me. Carrick sees Ronaldo doing it, Scholes sees Carrick doing it, Nani sees this. It's almost like they feel this is acceptable. That they're so good they don't have to work to get back the ball. When it's clearly not the case.
For sure but in the Keane regime, it would only happen once and he would tear them a new arsehole. There is no way in hell Keane would put up with some of the ***** we saw last night.
The above is my opinions on the lack of leadership.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
" What kind of champions defend like absolute amateurs when they've just took a lead in the last 5 minutes at home in Europe. It was as if they thought they had already won the game and they had switched off "

they were amateur-ish all the game. they havent switched off from nothing.

it seems from your post you judge the players based on the last night's performance.
for example park...until now he was accused of not beeing very efficient in attack, now you accuse him of loosing the ball and ruining things.
park played well throughout the season, he usually wins balls, not loose them...
so it is clearly you judge him based on yesterday's performance.

if it is like that, we should demolish the whole team, except rooney. so lets calm down and think straight.

do you really think a big shopping campain is a must ?
i have my doubts. altho i agree with the lack of a good central miedfielder, i dont think we have other problems in midfield and attack.
so i have my doubts in using real madrid's method. shopping big that is...

the big problem we have now is the defence. you focused on other things but failed to mention this.
if you look at our goal scoring records from 2-3 months ago when we were playing very good, and if you compare that with the records from last 2-3 weeks you wont see nothing worse.
ironically we seem to score more now then we did back then
( when we were wining 1-0 almost every game....but we were winning.

but if you compare the records in conceeded goals....THERE IS THE PROBLEM.

i also dont think our defenders are so mentaly weak that they cant recover from liverpool game. i dont think it is that. but what on earth brought them to this amateur-ish level. ?
that my friend is the BIG mistery for me. and why all of them ?

i dont say we dont have good players in defense...(ok, maybe we need a quality right-back), because we do and they proved it last season and this one until 1 month ago.

but my god, give me one good reasons why they are some shades now ?
On the first point in bold, the point is mate that a great team would not take a lead 5 minutes from the end at home, when the momentum is completely with them, and then go and through it away easily.

On the second point, believe me I'm more intelligent than making a judgment on one performance, I'm sure there are posters here who would back me up on that.

On the one about Park, if you read my posts I've ALWAYS "accused" him of always giving the ball away and ruining things, because he does! Last night was not a one off, he just possesses no technical ability what so ever. His work rate is great but he is a really poor footballer.

On the next point in bold, yes, yes I do, I explained why in the post.

About the defense, considering John O'Shea (who played poorly last night indeed) is our 4th choice right back, he's not bad at all. Jonny Evans had a rare bad game last night but is usually excellent, and we know Evra is a good player having a bad spell, the defense isn't so bad. Although they are having a shaky spell.

The reason we are now scoring more and conceding more is because previously teams were playing stupidly defensive against us, so we couldn't break them down much, but also they would offer no threat to our goal. Now teams attack us we panic because they are bossing us in midfield, and we are having a bit of a defensive crisis in terms of absentees.

On the mentally weak problem, i didn't mean just our defense, in general alot of the team seemed to have bottled it, and in answer to you question as to what has caused it, I think its because we have no proper leader and nobody to boss the midfield. And if anybody is about to ask then why was this not the same last season. Its because last season Scholes could boss a midfield as well as anybody, Hargreaves was at least there to work hard in midfield even if he's not world class, and while Scholes was out Anderson at the time was playing very well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
de rossi, eto'o and ribery. lol. we'd have the best team in the history of football. that'd cost a minimum of £100m, dream on.
I highlighted the problems and how to solve them. I'm not saying we could afford to solve all 3 in one summer (without selling Ronaldo which is guess is possible but a big gamble) but we could do 2 out of 3.
 

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Well done Rich.

I have said some of what you said already. The rest I totally agree with.







The above is my opinions on the lack of leadership.
Thanks peterswellman. Yeah I actually read some of your really good posts just after I posted this thread so sorry if it seemed like I was nicking you ideas, I just came online before and wanted to post this thread, and there were so many new threads I didn't have time to read them all first!
 

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Thanks peterswellman. Yeah I actually read some of your really good posts just after I posted this thread so sorry if it seemed like I was nicking you ideas, I just came online before and wanted to post this thread, and there were so many new threads I didn't have time to read them all first!
No problem at all mate. Was more than happy to see others were thinking the same things as me.:specool:
 

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if you didnt judged the team based on yesterday's performance why you didnt mentioned 2 months ago this shopping spree we badly need ??

why you are saying we have good defenders ? because i told you the same thing. what is the point ?
it is that you are trying to convince me you are not judging them by last night's performance ? you do mate, more or less you do it. and you are not doing it because you are not intelligent.

" The reason we are now scoring more and conceding more is because previously teams were playing stupidly defensive against us, so we couldn't break them down much, but also they would offer no threat to our goal. Now teams attack us we panic because they are bossing us in midfield, and we are having a bit of a defensive crisis in terms of absentees. "

that is a bit of contradiction if you ask me. so we were not having those records ( not conceeding ) because our players were quality ( as you said before) ?
you are suggesting that that we were just apparently strong until some smart team discovered our little secret ?
it is a wrong point of view mate.

about the leadership in midfield.
you said scholes could boss a midfieald and hargreaves the same last season.
but what about this season, until one month ago?
hargo was out, and scholes apperently isnt capable of bossing the midfield like he did last season. so who did the job up until the liverpool game ?


and about peterswellmans post. rio was on the field when we lost against liverpool. what about the leasership ?

and how come they are seeing others mistakes and think it is acceptable ? what are they kids?
if they are crap then they know it. is not enough having someone on the field to tell them what do or show them how it should be done.
im quite sure they know what they should do, but you have to be able to do it.
 

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I highlighted the problems and how to solve them. I'm not saying we could afford to solve all 3 in one summer (without selling Ronaldo which is guess is possible but a big gamble) but we could do 2 out of 3.
Yeah I know, I didn't mean that post to imply that you were being stupid or anything. It was a good post and I agree with the majority of it.

In order to finance any of those players in this current climate, it would probably mean selling Ronaldo - and then we have the same problem as before - we don't have 2 capable wingers. we'd have ribery on the left and probably park on the right, changes nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
if you didnt judged the team based on yesterday's performance why you didnt mentioned 2 months ago this shopping spree we badly need ??

why you are saying we have good defenders ? because i told you the same thing. what is the point ?
it is that you are trying to convince me you are not judging them by last night's performance ? you do mate, more or less you do it. and you are not doing it because you are not intelligent.

" The reason we are now scoring more and conceding more is because previously teams were playing stupidly defensive against us, so we couldn't break them down much, but also they would offer no threat to our goal. Now teams attack us we panic because they are bossing us in midfield, and we are having a bit of a defensive crisis in terms of absentees. "

that is a bit of contradiction if you ask me. so we were not having those records ( not conceeding ) because our players were quality ( as you said before) ?
you are suggesting that that we were just apparently strong until some smart team discovered our little secret ?
it is a wrong point of view mate.

about the leadership in midfield.
dont compare it with last season. you said scholes could boss a midfieald and hargreaves the same.
but what about this season, until one month ago?
hargo was out, and scholes apperently isnt capable of bossing the midfield like he did last season. so who did the job up until the liverpool game ?



and about peterswellmans post. rio was on the field when we lost against liverpool. what about the leasership ?

and how come they are seeing others mistakes and think it is acceptable ? what are they kids?
if they are crap then they know it. is not enough having someone on the field to tell them what do or show them how it should be done.
im quite sure they know what they should do, but you have to be able to do it
.
Actually 2 months ago I was still saying we need a proper striker and a left winger quite a lot. And the reason i didn't mention the lack of a midfield enforcer and mental strength is because it was impossible for any of these problems to become apparent in a time when teams were just putting 10 men on the edge of their box and waiting for us to eventually break them down.

The reason I pointed out that out defense is good is because you specifically asked me to tell you why I had not mentioned the defense as a problem, and you said it was a problem.

Please don't tell me I base judgments on one performance and I'm unintelligent, the mods made me poster of the month last month, so intelligent people who read many of my posts obviously think I have a decent football knowledge.

The reason I compared the midfield to last season is because I knew people would say "well if the midfield still has the same players as last season how could it have changed?" So I pointed out where things have changed. Scholes cannot boss a midfield like he did last season And previous to the Liverpool game he wasn't doing so either. But earlier in the season we hadn't needed anyone to boss the midfield because there was so little pressure on them as everybody was just sitting deep against us. Now we do need someone to boss the mirdfield we are getting found out.

On the last point, if you either play football for a team, or watched any of the Roy Keane era, you would surely see that having a leader on the pitch, constantly giving instructions and encouraging/bollocking people, it has a massive effect on how the team plays. *Please see Keane, Bruce, Schmeichel, or Robson*

Man this is frustrating!
 

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Yeah I know, I didn't mean that post to imply that you were being stupid or anything. It was a good post and I agree with the majority of it.

In order to finance any of those players in this current climate, it would probably mean selling Ronaldo - and then we have the same problem as before - we don't have 2 capable wingers. we'd have ribery on the left and probably park on the right, changes nothing.
Yeah I understand mate, I've added a little edit at the bottom of the original post to address that issue :thumbsup:
 

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I agree with all that Richie. I thought after Machedas goal we would become more confident and have a strong finish to the season and easily take the league. If we play well at Sunderland and get the win I think this could happen
 

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and about peterswellmans post. rio was on the field when we lost against liverpool. what about the leasership ?

and how come they are seeing others mistakes and think it is acceptable ? what are they kids?
if they are crap then they know it. is not enough having someone on the field to tell them what do or show them how it should be done.
im quite sure they know what they should do, but you have to be able to do it.
It's not about seeing others making mistakes. It's about giving them the talking to they need. Either to encourage or tear them new strips. Keane wasn't the greatest techincial footballer but his ability to lead and get the best of those alongside him was second to none.

Do you think Keane in his prime for the way Carrick and Ronaldo went on last night?
 

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Actually 2 months ago I was still saying we need a proper striker and a left winger quite a lot. And the reason i didn't mention the lack of a midfield enforcer and mental strength is because it was impossible for any of these problems to become apparent in a time when teams were just putting 10 men on the edge of their box and waiting for us to eventually break them down.

The reason I pointed out that out defense is good is because you specifically asked me to tell you why I had not mentioned the defense as a problem, and you said it was a problem.

Please don't tell me I base judgments on one performance and I'm unintelligent, the mods made me poster of the month last month, so intelligent people who read many of my posts obviously think I have a decent football knowledge.

The reason I compared the midfield to last season is because I knew people would say "well if the midfield still has the same players as last season how could it have changed?" So I pointed out where things have changed. Scholes cannot boss a midfield like he did last season And previous to the Liverpool game he wasn't doing so either. But earlier in the season we hadn't needed anyone to boss the midfield because there was so little pressure on them as everybody was just sitting deep against us. Now we do need someone to boss the mirdfield we are getting found out.

On the last point, if you either play football for a team, or watched any of the Roy Keane era, you would surely see that having a leader on the pitch, constantly giving instructions and encouraging/bollocking people, it has a massive effect on how the team plays. *Please see Keane, Bruce, Schmeichel, or Robson*

Man this is frustrating!
that is a bit of contradiction if you ask me. so we were not having those records ( not conceeding ) because our players were quality ( as you said before) ?
you are suggesting that that we were just apparently strong until some smart team discovered our little secret ?


why you didnt comented this paragraph ? please do it. and this is also an answer for you.

" Please don't tell me I base judgments on one performance and I'm unintelligent, the mods made me poster of the month last month, so intelligent people who read many of my posts obviously think I have a decent football knowledge. "

show me when i said you are unintelligent and i'll eat those words. i said "your not doing it because you are not intelligent"....meaning you dont do that because you are stupid. you are doing it from other reasons. why do you feel the need to mention your member of the month thing ? hmm

" But earlier in the season we hadn't needed anyone to boss the midfield because there was so little pressure on them as everybody was just sitting deep against us. Now we do need someone to boss the mirdfield we are getting found out. "

look at the paragraph you intentionally failed to comment.


and yeah i play footbal, and i know when i do something wrong. i dont need other people to tell me what to do, i can figure that out myself, i have a head and i use it to think.
in fact having someone who kept bollocking/encouraging me actually put more pressure on me.
those players KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO. and if they dont ( lets say this for the sake of the debate), fergie will tell them in the locker-room.

but as i said, they know when they are crap and they know what they should be doing, but they have TO BE ABLE to do it.

anyway, i think we should end it here.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
that is a bit of contradiction if you ask me. so we were not having those records ( not conceeding ) because our players were quality ( as you said before) ?
you are suggesting that that we were just apparently strong until some smart team discovered our little secret ?


why you didnt comented this paragraph ? please do it. and this is also an answer for you.


" Please don't tell me I base judgments on one performance and I'm unintelligent, the mods made me poster of the month last month, so intelligent people who read many of my posts obviously think I have a decent football knowledge. "

show me when i said you are unintelligent and i'll eat those words. i said "your not doing it because you are not intelligent"....meaning you dont do that because you are stupid. you are doing it from other reasons. why do you feel the need to mention your member of the month thing ? hmm


" But earlier in the season we hadn't needed anyone to boss the midfield because there was so little pressure on them as everybody was just sitting deep against us. Now we do need someone to boss the mirdfield we are getting found out. "

look at the paragraph you intentionally failed to comment.


and yeah i play footbal, and i know when i do something wrong. i dont need other people to tell me what to do, i can figure that out myself, i have a head and i use it to think.
in fact having someone who kept bollocking/encouraging me actually put more pressure on me.
those players KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO. and if they dont ( lets say this for the sake of the debate), fergie will tell them in the locker-room.

but as i said, they know when they are crap and they know what they should be doing, but they have TO BE ABLE to do it.

anyway, i think we should end it here.
I accidentally did not reply to the part in red so I'll do it now. To an extent, yes, we did look much better than we are before teams realised the best way to play against us. But much less simply than that. But if you look in that run of not conceding, who were the last team to score against us before we did go on the run? Arsenal, a team who attacked us and beat us. Who were the other big teams along the way? Chelsea and Inter, who in both of those games, ad the same problems as us but even more so. Chelsea did not turn up for that match, they had no fight in their midfield what so ever and Drogba was lazy upfront. Inter, clearly were too slow and aging and struggled more than us to boss the midfield, particularly in Italy, where out midfield were given endless room to pass the ball, and Ibrahimovic and Andriano were compeltely static all game. Then who were the first team to score against us? Blackburn - the first team to attack us. This gave other teams the confidence to attack us and its since then we have struggled really.

Okay i misread the unintelligent thing my bad. And I mentioned the member of the month thing because I just wanted to prove that I have a track record for not making one-game judgments.

So are you saying the communication between Keane and the rest of the team in his captain days were pointless and had no effect as the team would already know what to do?

And I'm not saying they don't know what to do, just sometimes you need somebody barking the orders to add another level to your game. In the same way a crowd can lift a team.
 

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for start i'll tell you one FACT. the last season we had the same team ( except berbatov), but he is not very important in what we talk here.

you are telling me that we won the Premier League, the Champions League, Carling Cup, and the World Cup for clubs, and we are now top of the league again by being just apparently strong.
so during all this time there was no team who actually attacked us ? because we have faced some serious opponents both in PL and CL.
i hope you understand now.

how do you know the communication between Keane and the rest was actually the key for succes ?
and no, you dont need a barking dog in the field to make you play better.


as for the other thing...you mentioned your member of the month thing and you also said this is frustrating. ( our debate that is)

now why a debate should be frustrating since you are using this forum for exactly the same thing ( having debates) ?
i guess you never had a serious debate.
 
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