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Berbatov>Tevez
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I have a question for some of you who brand a player " worldclass" after performing on the highest level for 5 years ..

is Ronaldo world class ? i mean this is his 3 rd year of putting out world class performances...even if he hadn't been elected as the player of the year would that be enough for you to brand him world class ? was he world class the season before last ?

is Messi world class ? was he world class last season or season before last ? how about Torres, Kaka etc...


you see - even if ronaldo , oh let's say , never scores a goal again , and starts performing so badly that he loses the place in our team, he would still be world class for my definition - you can't put a time limit on it - you either are or you aint ! same goes for messi !
 

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The world class itself when used has no obligation about being used when we`re talking about something permanent. It defines the world quality and quality may not be forever. A player can be world class for only just one match, which means he was ranking above all others in playing terms.

So yes, in my opinion Ronaldo was world class, Messi was world class so were Kaka and the Brazilian Ronaldo. Any player can be world class, it depends on him the duration on which he is world class.

Class is one thing, Legend is another.

JMO.
 

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to me world class player are those who consistantly stand out season after season. that includes domestically, in continental competitions and for there country
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #4
RoxiiUtd said:
The world class itself when used has no obligation about being used when we`re talking about something permanent. It defines the world quality and quality may not be forever. A player can be world class for only just one match, which means he was ranking above all others in playing terms.

So yes, in my opinion Ronaldo was world class, Messi was world class so were Kaka and the Brazilian Ronaldo. Any player can be world class, it depends on him the duration on which he is world class.

Class is one thing, Legend is another.

JMO.
that's well said but that's not what i meant - i have my own definition of the word btw...


but if let's say gibson produces a world class PERFORMANCE against chelsea , will he go down in a history books as the world class player ? no.


but we're talking about world class players - to be more precise - there are people who will brand a player world class only when he has played on the highest level for 4-5 years - that's what i disagree with and my question was aimed at those people
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Discussion Starter #5
hatedastarfish said:
to me world class player are those who consistantly stand out season after season. that includes domestically, in continental competitions and for there country
for how long
 

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World class to me is if you made a squad of the best 22 or so players in the world,
any player that makes that team would be world class.
 

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CROoney said:
that's well said but that's not what i meant - i have my own definition of the word btw...


but if let's say gibson produces a world class PERFORMANCE against chelsea , will he go down in a history books as the world class player ? no.


but we're talking about world class players - to be more precise - there are people who will brand a player world class only when he has played on the highest level for 4-5 years - that's what i disagree with and my question was aimed at those people
World class players does not necessarily need to make their mark on history books. Actually it`s up to the individual how to define "world-class", so you should be faced many opinions here.
But as i said before, the word world class isn`t permanent, either should be used after a series of great performances. It just means that someone is on a higher rank or quality than then the others. So someone can be judged world class on a base of a great 90 minutes performance.

My english is terrible in this last paragraph, can`t express myself in a better way tho
 

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Not that clear cut it seems. Highly contentious at best....

CROoney said:
but if let's say gibson produces a world class PERFORMANCE against chelsea , will he go down in a history books as the world class player ? no.
A non world-class player can indeed produce a world-class performance in a match; once in his lifetime or once in a blue moon.

CROoney said:
you see - even if ronaldo , oh let's say , never scores a goal again , and starts performing so badly that he loses the place in our team, he would still be world class for my definition - you can't put a time limit on it - you either are or you aint ! same goes for messi !
So based on the same argument, can you really (continue) to label someone as world class if he is unable to produce world-class performance anymore?

CROoney said:
but we're talking about world class players - to be more precise - there are people who will brand a player world class only when he has played on the highest level for 4-5 years - that's what i disagree with and my question was aimed at those people
He may have to do that over a sustainable period to qualify as a world-class player then. I concede that "sustainable period' is vague and contentious too.

According to dictionary.com,

world-class
   /ˈwɜrldˈklæs, -ˈklɑs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [wurld-klas, -klahs] Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. ranking among the world's best; outstanding: a world-class orchestra.
2. attracting or comprising world-class players, performers, etc.: a world-class tennis tournament.
3. Informal. being a notorious example of its kind: a world-class slob.
Also, worldclass.

Origin:
1945–50


Sounds most logical. Then again, it is also contentious. Must the yardstick "world's best" and/or "outstanding" necessary be "world class" for a "sustainable period"?

What do others reckon?
 

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To me it's the best person in that position in the world. Ronaldo of course is so yes, he's certainly world class. Kaka, Messi and Casillas are others I would throw in to the frame. Evra and Nemanja would both make my teams too but then again that's just opinion.
 

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peterswellman said:
To me it's the best person in that position in the world. Ronaldo of course is so yes, he's certainly world class. Kaka, Messi and Casillas are others I would throw in to the frame. Evra and Nemanja would both make my teams too but then again that's just opinion.
by that rationale there are only 11 world class players in the world?
Thats why I said a squad of 22 or so players. I think its more realistic.
cos there are definitely a load of world class keepers for eg.
Im sure there at least 25/30 world class players in the world.
Should we try and make a list? or is that too much hassle?
 

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Jazz 16 said:
by that rationale there are only 11 world class players in the world?
Thats why I said a squad of 22 or so players. I think its more realistic.
cos there are definitely a load of world class keepers for eg.
Im sure there at least 25/30 world class players in the world.
Should we try and make a list? or is that too much hassle?
The term world class is too easy thrown around. it's the best of the best, not the second best, or third. Only the best. It simply would mean they would get into any club in the world no matter who is playing in their position. You're using the term far too loosely imo.
 

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peterswellman said:
The term world class is too easy thrown around. it's the best of the best, not the second best, or third. Only the best. It simply would mean they would get into any club in the world no matter who is playing in their position. You're using the term far too loosely imo.
I dont think I am. There are at least that many world class players in the world.
Look at United, Chelsea, Barca, Madrid, Italian clubs etc... they all have at
least 4/5 'world class players'

Just say for arguments sake that Messi and Ron are both right wingers, which they
generally are. Could you just have one of them in your 'team', thus meaning the
other one was not world class?

and how to distinguish between Buffon, Cassilas, Given, Vds, Friedel for eg.?for the one spot.
its impossible just to pick one of them as they are all world class imo.

Ribery is another winger who is world class. Would he not be afforded world class status
as there are 2 wingers who are already better than him.
 

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Jazz 16 said:
by that rationale there are only 11 world class players in the world?
Thats why I said a squad of 22 or so players. I think its more realistic.
cos there are definitely a load of world class keepers for eg.
Im sure there at least 25/30 world class players in the world.
Should we try and make a list? or is that too much hassle?
I'm bored so I'll give it a go:

Goalkeepers
Buffon
Cassillas

Full Backs
Evra
Maicon
Alvez

Centre Backs
Nesta
Rio
Vidic

Defensive Midfielders
Mascherano
De Rossi

Central Midfielders
Xavi
Fabregas
Essien

Attacking Midfielders/Wingers
Ronaldo
Messi
Kaka
Iniesta

Strikers
Eto'o
Villa
Torres
Ibrahamovic
Drogba
Del Piero
 

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TheManc said:
I'm bored so I'll give it a go:

Goalkeepers
Buffon
Cassillas

Full Backs
Evra
Maicon
Alvez

Centre Backs
Nesta
Rio
Vidic

Defensive Midfielders
Mascherano
De Rossi

Central Midfielders
Xavi
Fabregas
Essien

Attacking Midfielders/Wingers
Ronaldo
Messi
Kaka
Iniesta

Strikers
Eto'o
Villa
Torres
Ibrahamovic
Drogba
good man TM. always count on you for a list :p
so thats 22 players you picked that you would consider world class.
Id agree with all bar maybe Mascherano, but id also add a couple.....

Given
VDS
Ribery
Cannavaro
Henry
Benzema
del Piero
Berbatov
Totti?

Ill add more if I think of any, but that was my point to Peterswellman (john isnt it?)
that there are more than 11 world class players, easily more....
 

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Jazz 16 said:
I dont think I am. There are at least that many world class players in the world.
Look at United, Chelsea, Barca, Madrid, Italian clubs etc... they all have at
least 4/5 'world class players'

Just say for arguments sake that Messi and Ron are both right wingers, which they
generally are. Could you just have one of them in your 'team', thus meaning the
other one was not world class?

and how to distinguish between Buffon, Cassilas, Given, Vds, Friedel for eg.?for the one spot.
its impossible just to pick one of them as they are all world class imo.

Ribery is another winger who is world class. Would he not be afforded world class status
as there are 2 wingers who are already better than him.
I think sometimes you have to distinguish between 'could be' and is.

I don't mean this as in potential, what I mean is the standard at which you play.

I'm pretty sure Given could be a great keeper here, but he wouldn't be the first top player who couldn't quite make it at a top, top club.

Ribery is similar. I am 99% sure he would be world class should he play for us, Barca, Madrid ect. But as it is he is playing in the German League, which isn't as strong as other leagues.

He has proven himself capable of being a world class player with France, but he hasn't had the chance to prove that he IS a world class player, if that makes any sense at all.
 

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to me it applies to any player who is among the top few at that position in the world at any given time.....there aren't that many around.

it like the word or term legend gets thrown around too easily these days without merit
 

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Jazz 16 said:
I dont think I am. There are at least that many world class players in the world.
Look at United, Chelsea, Barca, Madrid, Italian clubs etc... they all have at
least 4/5 'world class players'

Just say for arguments sake that Messi and Ron are both right wingers, which they
generally are. Could you just have one of them in your 'team', thus meaning the
other one was not world class?

and how to distinguish between Buffon, Cassilas, Given, Vds, Friedel for eg.?for the one spot.
its impossible just to pick one of them as they are all world class imo.

Ribery is another winger who is world class. Would he not be afforded world class status
as there are 2 wingers who are already better than him.

No there isn't. You are using the term far too loosely. I can't think of a single Chelsea player that's world class. maybe Carvalho in the past but certainly not now. Same for Real. At least 4/5 world class. No way in hell is that true.

You guys are throwing around the term like no tommorrow. **** sake some of the players on the list above me aren't.

To me it would be Ronny and Messi on either wing with Kaka up the middle. Casillas would be my goalie because to me he's the best in the world. That to me is world class, if you don't make that team doesn't mean you are a bad player, it just means you're the best of the best in my eyes.

No way would Ribery. Messi and Ronaldo everytime. He's a good player but not the best of the best.

Why you think the word 'world' is in it? Simply to illustrate that they are the very best. World class means the best 11 in the world in their position. The rest aren't, it's just tabloids, and other managers who have made a mockery of the term.

This defintion is it for me. You can argue with me until your blue in the face but it won't matter.
 

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TheManc said:
I think sometimes you have to distinguish between 'could be' and is.

I don't mean this as in potential, what I mean is the standard at which you play.

I'm pretty sure Given could be a great keeper here, but he wouldn't be the first top player who couldn't quite make it at a top, top club.

Ribery is similar. I am 99% sure he would be world class should he play for us, Barca, Madrid ect. But as it is he is playing in the German League, which isn't as strong as other leagues.

He has proven himself capable of being a world class player with France, but he hasn't had the chance to prove that he IS a world class player, if that makes any sense at all.
but what Given and Ribery HAVE done in their careers has been sensational.
They are world class, and put in top performances every single week.
I dont think it makes that much difference that Given hasnt played for a top club
or that Ribery hasnt played in the Prem or La Liga. Its just the way it turned out in the end
,but both are world class in my eyes.
 

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Jazz 16 said:
good man TM. always count on you for a list :p
so thats 22 players you picked that you would consider world class.
Id agree with all bar maybe Mascherano, but id also add a couple.....

Given
VDS
Ribery
Cannavaro
Henry
Benzema
del Piero
Berbatov
Totti?

Ill add more if I think of any, but that was my point to Peterswellman (john isnt it?)
that there are more than 11 world class players, easily more....
No way. See this is my bloody point, players like Totti, Mascherano(can't even make the Liverpool team), De Rossi and others aren't world class players. The term is been thrown around these days like ******* ***.

Too many gutter journalists spouting bollix.

Henry, Cannavaro, Del Piero were but not anymore.
 
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