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Discussion Starter #1
So I'm watching Newcastle against Man City and once again a game has been marred by a refereeing decision.

Not that I'm a fan of either team, but I can't sleep and it's a good opportunity to watch Robinho and SWP versus Obafemi Martins and .....erm ....... Obafemi Martins.

The scenario is a defense-splitting pass sees Robinho through on goal when Habib Beye makes a last ditch tackle and actually gets a teeny bit of the ball before taking Robinho down just inside the edge of the area.

From the referees point of view it actually looks like a penalty, so Rob Styles awards the penalty and sends off Beye.

Why am I miffed?

Because in the English Premier League that very same tackle is not always a red card.

- that's the refereeing aspect

The next thing is that Newcastle will already be punished with a penalty, which shouldn't have been awarded, but on top of that they have a defender sent off.

- that's the ridiculous rules aspect



I don't know how many discussions I've had with other fans about referees, but here are some popular arguments about referees and introducing technology to assist refs:

*Refs are bound by the rules of the game - blame the rules not the ref
*A referee should be allowed to officiate each match as he deems fit
*Refs usually even things out during the course of a match
*Using technology would diminish the drama / lessen the human element
*Using technology would slow down a match

Here are my thoughts:
The problem is that refs don't enforce the law in equal measure. Now, it's already difficult to accept when the same situation doesn't incur the same punishment in a different match, but sometimes a ref doesn't even punish the same situation equally in the same match.

I watch the EPL more than any other league, but I still do watch La Liga and the Bundesliga and I don't see such ridiculous inconsistencies.

Some of the rules really need reviewing and the great Perluigi Collina said as much - when you award a penalty AND send off the offending player - it is a double punishment.

If a ref should be allowed to officiate matches as he sees fit, Why oh why would a ref want to send a player off in the 12th minute for a fair challenge.

In the Newcastle - Man City match, the tackle was a fair tackle, not a dirty tackle from behind.

It will be interesting to see, if Beye will have the red card rescinded, because replays show that he got the ball first.

On the technology front, I do not believe that it would slow down the game.
We see the replays within seconds and the 4th official could simply have a monitor next to him on the sidelines and advice the ref through the wireless communication system they have now.

I don't agree that using technology would lessen the talking points, because there is enough to talk about regarding a football match other than refereeing blunders.

it is very, very infuriating to witness such inconsistent refereeing in the Premier League.

EPL = Best football, worst referees.

In this day and age, refereeing decisions decide championships and can cost a club millions of pounds.

Even, if a ref evens it out during a match, it does not make it fair.

Plus by the time he evens it out, one team could have take an unassailable lead.

Other stuff that irks me are for example not setting walls properly during set-pieces and if there is a some slight pushing going on in the wall where both attackers and defending are shoving, the referee doesn't side with the attacking team.

Solution:

The FA needs to hold weekly conference calls to discuss the good and bad of the previous weekend and find some consensus in their decision-making.

Maybe get a highly-regarded referee to mentor the current batch. Someone like Collina.

In addition, they MUST start to use technology to help them get the big decisions right.
 

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He wipes front to back
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just because you touch the ball first it does not automatically make a tackle fair -- if you clatter into a player after touching ball you stop him getting to the ball and poterntially injure them into the bargain . imo it was the right decision
 

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Discussion Starter #3
^ And you are entitled to that opinion, but it still doesn't address the other points - that not all refs punish that situation the same way.

Also, most tackles will result in the defender clattering into the opponent, so how many tackles would be fair?

Why is it the correct decision to punish a team twice for the same offense?
 

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He wipes front to back
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cos its the barcodes and everyone hates them is a good reason for me -- anyway they play better with ten 2-1 at mo --- did you just see givens save from ireland ? get him to o/t quick
 

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Discussion Starter #5
:D

'twas a brilliant save and I doubt Edwin would have saved that. I htought it was destined to go in myself, before the ball was halted by a flash of yellow.

You know, they actually did play better after they were reduced to ten men.

Maybe the perceived injustice united them and ignited them into action.

Best Newcastle performance of the season.
 

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I have to say Styles got the decision spot on for me...

It was an akward tackle, where he did get the ball, but in doing so he took Robinhos
feet away from him and brought him down denining a goal scoring opportunity...
 

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There's Only One Darren Fletcher!
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Its always such a hard decision for the ref cause as somone RRF rightly said, the ref is bound by the laws of the game. And well the laws do say its fair if you get the ball first, which Beye did I think. nAnwya They should have some worldwide meeting and re-write the laws I think :p
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Keano! said:
I have to say Styles got the decision spot on for me...

It was an akward tackle, where he did get the ball, but in doing so he took Robinhos
feet away from him and brought him down denining a goal scoring opportunity...
As I said, even if Styles got the decision of awarding a penalty right, it still doesn't make it right to then also send off the players.

To me (and Collina) that's a double punishment and an additional problem is - in another game with another ref, that's not necessarily a red card either.
 
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I watched the first half and I thought that it was a definite penalty on first seeing
it. Then the replays confirmed it. He may have got the ball, but he went through
the player to get it. It's a very fine line and the discussion here, even after
watching replays, shows just how hard it is for referees to make a correct
decision.

RFR said:
in another game with another ref, that's not necessarily a red card either.
If the referee deems it to be a foul and the defender is the last line off defence,
it's ALWAYS a red card. I've never seen a foul given against the last defender and
then not be sent off.
 

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RedForceRising said:
As I said, even if Styles got the decision of awarding a penalty right, it still doesn't make it right to then also send off the players.

To me (and Collina) that's a double punishment and an additional problem is - in another game with another ref, that's not necessarily a red card either.

But as Blade says...

Last man = Red Card


He denied Robinho a goal scoring opportunity, so he's off. He was caught flat
footed, and I'm sorry, what he and the team got because of it was fully
deserved, I can GAURENTEE you that Newcastle won't appeal it, because if they
do they'll just be laughed at.

Penalty and a 3 match ban...3 isn't it? Anyways, Styles got it spot on for me, I
didn't think for a second that the incident would be "controversial"
 

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Discussion Starter #13
No, I have seen that same tackle before in games, sometimes even by a Manchester United player and it was waved off - no foul, no penalty, no red card.

Besides the incident last night, there is the broader subject of inconsistent refereeing and the need for technology to assist them.

It's pretty poor to say that he got a bit of the ball but more of the man.

How many goal-scoring opportunities have been denied by bad tackles that did not result in a red card or penalty?

If every tackle where the player goes through the opponent to get the ball is a yellow or red card offense there would be very few players on the pitch after 90 minutes for most EPL matches.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
STYLES SIDELINED AFTER ERRORS
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_4368860,00.htm

l



Rob Styles's future as a top flight referee is reportedly in doubt after he was sidelined for the weekend's fixtures.

Styles, who awarded Manchester City a penalty and sent Habib Beye off for a 'foul' on Robinho, when the Newcastle defender appeared to get the ball. This comes after Styles gave Manchester United a spot-kick against Bolton, which replays confirmed afterwards was also incorrect.

The Daily Telegraph reports that Styles and his bosses have concluded that the Beye decision was incorrect, and he is expected to recommend the red card be rescinded.

He has therefore been taken out of the firing line for the weekend's action, but rather than simply being dropped, Styles has been demoted to fourth official duty for the game between Chelsea and Liverpool on Sunday, with Howard Webb taking control of that match.

Styles will instead return to the middle in the Championship next week, when he takes charge of Bristol City v Sheffield United.

The Telegraph claims that sources at the Professional Game Match Officials board suggest Styles cannot afford a third high profile error. Referees chief Keith Hackett reportedly believes his overall form and decision making ensures the two mistakes so far will not be harshly punished, but another could be a different matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Blade said:
I watched the first half and I thought that it was a definite penalty on first seeing
it. Then the replays confirmed it. He may have got the ball, but he went through
the player to get it. It's a very fine line and the discussion here, even after
watching replays, shows just how hard it is for referees to make a correct
decision.

Keano! said:
But as Blade says...

Last man = Red Card


He denied Robinho a goal scoring opportunity, so he's off. He was caught flat
footed, and I'm sorry, what he and the team got because of it was fully
deserved, I can GAURENTEE you that Newcastle won't appeal it, because if they
do they'll just be laughed at.

Penalty and a 3 match ban...3 isn't it? Anyways, Styles got it spot on for me, I
didn't think for a second that the incident would be "controversial"



Well, well....

It seems like that the incident was much more controversial than some thought and that

Last man does not equal red card.





Happy days for Beye but Owen is out

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_4374465,00.html

Habib Beye is free to play in Newcastle's clash at Sunderland after his red-card appeal was upheld - but Michael Owen will miss the derby.



Senegal international Beye was dismissed for a professional foul on Manchester City striker Robinho by referee Rob Styles on Monday night, but the Magpies immediately launched an appeal.

An FA regulatory commission heard the appeal on Thursday and found in the player's favour.

A statement said: "At a regulatory commission hearing today, a claim for wrongful dismissal from Newcastle United defender Habib Beye was upheld.

"As a result, Beye's one-match suspension has been withdrawn."

Beye got a faint touch on the ball as he tackled Robinho just inside the area but referee Styles pointed to the spot and brandished a red card.
 

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Recent example this week.
2 CL games (united's and Pool's)
3 goals given that were all offside.
3 goals not given that were legit.
This is simply unacceptable.
We need to bring in the video ref and give each manager 1 chance (per half maybe?)
to go to the video official. This wont slow the game down too much and would adda bit of excitement like it does in rugby, tennis etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I felt sorry for Atletico. They should have won the game, but I think a draw was a fair result.

Even, if things get "evened out", it still doesn't make it right and Rooney was denied a goal, while berba got two.

It also makes a huge difference in a situation where a team is leading by 1-0 and score a goal that should be offside.

if the officials get it right, then it remains at 1-0 and the opponents still can get back in the game.

if the officials get it wrong, then the offending team go 2-0 up and the losing team have a mountain to climb AND feel that the fficials are against them.
 
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Jazz 16 said:
Recent example this week.
2 CL games (united's and Pool's)
3 goals given that were all offside.
3 goals not given that were legit.
This is simply unacceptable.
We need to bring in the video ref and give each manager 1 chance (per half maybe?)
to go to the video official. This wont slow the game down too much and would adda bit of excitement like it does in rugby, tennis etc.
Yeah it has been a bit of a joke recently and there also seems to have been at least
one high profile mistake each week since the Prem season started. It's quite funny
really since most of the c0ck ups have happened since they brought out the 'Respect'
initiative. It's hard to respect the referees when they're making so many errors.

I like your idea about having a certain number of calls you can make, but I don't think
the manager is always in the best position to decide when to use them. Maybe the
captain could make the call if one of his players assures him a wrong decision has
been made against them?
 

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Blade said:
.

I like your idea about having a certain number of calls you can make, but I don't think
the manager is always in the best position to decide when to use them. Maybe the
captain could make the call if one of his players assures him a wrong decision has
been made against them?
But if its up to the manager he wont be able to criticise the ref at the end of the game.
The book will lie with him, and its his call whether to take the chance or not.
They will obviously have a few seconds to consult with their captain to decide
whether to take the chance or not. Im sure the players on the pitch will
remenstrate or give a signal to the manager to appeal.

Then bring in the goal line technology with the chip in the ball. The 4th official
would be able to tell in seconds whether the ball crossed the line.

Also get the spray can to mark out the walls for freekicks so they dont encroach
too much. This has been tested in S.America somewhere and was effective.
There are LOTS of things they could and should be doing to improve the game
and to cut out the mistakes.

Some of these mistakes could potentially be worth tens of/millions if it
involved relegation or getting through to the CL etc....

All these mistakes are ruining football. Its time we caught up with all the other sports.


Edit: as I write this Im watching SSN and they are testing out using an extra 2 refs,
one behind each goal. Uefa dont want to use video tech (the ****ing idiots) so this is
their answer. At least its some progress and should make a bit of difference, with the
extra pair of eyes checking things.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Officiating team sorry for offside goal errors


By STUART DARROCH
OFFICIALS in charge of Celtic's 3-0 Champions League loss to Manchester United on Tuesday have apologised to the Parkhead club for errors in their handling of key incidents during the match.
Belgian referee Frank De Bleeckere and his assistants Peter Hermans and Alex Verstraeten came under fire after Dimitar Berbatov netted the opening two goals despite being offside each time.

They also ruled out a legitimate Wayne Rooney strike as the SPL champions were out-classed by the Champions League holders.

De Bleeckere said: "At the moment itself, we were not aware of the error. There was no protest.

"I walked off the field with a good feeling. But when you see the images, it's a shame. The officials are a team.

We must help each other and see it as a learning curve."

Assistant referee Verstraeten yesterday admitted that he had been stung by a wave of criticism which followed the Group E encounter.

"This is the first time that we have made a mistake in 52 international matches," he said.

"I admit to the mistakes, but we also ask for understanding. Offside decisions are the hardest to judge. We are only human. It is our bad luck that the mistakes came at goals.

"We made mistakes and that should not happen. It is no consolation that Manchester United would have won without these decisions."

He added: "Some players argue their case in front of us, but no Celtic player protested.

"That proves that the offside decisions were very tight. At the end of the match I was surprised when I saw the television images."

Meanwhile, John Hartson has insisted Celtic can still qualify for the last 16 of the Champions League despite damaging defeats to Manchester United and Villarreal and a disappointing home draw with Aalborg that has left them sitting third in Group E, six points adrift of the La Liga side.

Former Celtic striker Hartson said: "I think you have to keep believing and the amazing thing about Celtic is that they have a fantastic home record, and Celtic are capable of winning their next three games.

"Now they can finish on ten points, so they are capable of beating Manchester United in two weeks' time and Villarreal and Aalborg.

"While it is still mathematically possible I think Celtic fans should keep believing they can do it."
 
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