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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I would like to respond to those who have listed those stats of Man Utd with and without Rooney. The fact that Man Utd have struggled for results without him does not mean that Rooney is brilliant. The reason for that is the fact that when Rooney is not there we have not had any back up striker who can come into the team.

Saha has been injured for the majority of the season as he usually is, so that has left us with Tevez up front on his own which has not worked and will never work. Tevez drops deeps to pick up the ball an run with it, that is the player he is. So who is there playing on the shoulder of the last defender and stretching the defence, NOBODY. When Tevez is upfront on his own all of Man Utd's play is in front of the defence and it is easy to defend against.

Almost all of the points we have dropped in the league this season have been dropped 100% entirely because the squad is short of an extra striker. If we had kept Rossi we would be strolling to the league title now and that is a fact.
 

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After looking through this thread, in a number of posts the word 'Ronaldo' has come up. Because everyone is now comparing his stats to Ronaldo's where obviously he can't stack up. Last season he was quite mediocre, because he has set such high standards. Against Arsenal he was fantastic, full of energy and got on the scoresheet, ok he doesn't play fantastic every game but he's still young. He is a vital player for us, and I'd love to see him captain one day!
 

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Yea i totally agree, rooney isnt that good, he never fights for United, never ever, and he's absolutely not the guy who run all the way back to get the ball back or something. Irony's a bitch

Wtf is this? EVERY club in the world would want him, just that all clubs KNOW its impossible to get him because he has United in his heart. Just remove this thread, this isnt conversating, this is just one man who fell on the head when he was little by his parents.
 

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On the subject of rooney he is a imense player works his legs off and to compare him to smith is mental . Yes sometimes he misses easy chances but lets not forget the goals he scores his work rate his passion rooney for me is a must . As for van nistleroy though i enjoyed the goals he was a selfish big headed player who sucked the life out of our play often looking only to supply him i was glad he left .
 

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obviously hes not because without him we loose matches
its not just goals he provides its assist passion and determination
 

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interesting post...

Overrated? Yes...Poor player? No

World Class? Not yet...Very good? Yes

Is he a great player? Not yet, he hasnt done anything of note apart from his debut hatrick and a goal against milan in the CL where players are judged and his mentality and finishing leaves alot to be desired. However i think someone else mentioned it, when he looks to be very fit and starts to hit some form he seems to get injured. He needs to get through a whole season without the rubbish media overhyping him beyond belief and them i think he will continue to progress as a player. In France recently in football magazine they asked the question "Is rooney really a great player?"...Everyone in the world recognizes Ronaldo is a true great player and one of the best whether the rooney clan on here want to admit it or not and rooney is not yet on that level.

Alan hansen once said that Rooney would walk into brazils team before Ronaldhinio when he was right at his peak and years ahead as a player in comparison to ronaldo and rooney at the time. This is the type of overyhyping rooney has had to live with. White pele? C'mon now, these comments are ridiculous..even a certain brazil player came out and said he would have to content with being a squad player if he was brazilian...this was a long time ago ofcourse.

He was even called the best player in the world on BBC at the age of about 19-20 when everyone with some decent football knowledge would have known at the time that this was pure rubbish. Remember the first time ronaldo and rooney went to Milan and looked completely out of there depth? These type of games show that british teams always serioulsy over hype there players especially in the case of Rooney because unlike the likes of lampard, he truly is a great talent. So before you all jump on me, i really do think Rooney is a great talent. I always believed Ronaldo has had more natural ability without doubt in my mind but rooney is more suited to english football. I think if rooney gets a whole season behind him without injuries within that year or the year after he will have an amazing season where he will look world class and finally reach that status.

At the moment he is not world class in my opinion, potentially he is but he hasnt reached that level yet. Top 5 striker in the world? not really...but i don't think his an out and out striker, more a foward player but i think he needs to improve his effectiveness going forward if someone closes the space between midfield and defence. Then i think he will finally fulfil his potential and i think its great his got fabio working with him at england because italians are the masters of positioning.

I dont think his finished is terrible though, sometimes everything comes off, other times everything looks very bad. He had two poor games against lyon but he may do something we need in the next round so you have to have rooney in your team when it comes to united. Its like Ronaldo, whether he frustrates at times or not, his the special bonus, abit like messi for barca and kaka for milan.

I think Jazz hit the nail, there may be better players in the world, even at united but i wouldnt swap him for anybody. I would like a out and out striker to play alongside him though and maybe it'll keep rooney on his toes aswell because tevez would be pushing him all the time...but then fergie will argue do we really need an out n out striker because tevez and rooney play so well together so i cannot argue with this.

Anyways i think Rooney is over hyped but i think he has yet to have his best season in england. To compare him to alan smith however??....smith is playing like a 5th defender for the opposition at newcastle right now
 

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He is kinda overrated i agree, now that is..

IMO- he's slipped from the greatness he once was, i mean given the easy tap-in chances he's been wasting lately which 3 years ago he would have finished easily.

But i still have faith in the lad, obviously so does SAF , i'm sure he will be back, hopefully soon.

Extra Striker needed? I second that. We need that (Injury free) Striker that does not drop deep and hangs on the defense, Maybe Manucho will fill that void.
 

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Clarky101 said:
everyone is entitled to a bad game tho surely?

iv seen ronaldo have more bad games this season than rooney. we must remember them two are only human :D lol
Oh for sure!
Of course everyone is entitled to a bad game. You learn the most from bad days/bad games. At least in my life.

And I would choose Rooney over Ronnie - no doubt about that. All the games we've lost this season were when we played without Rooney. Ronaldo has the skill, but Rooney's enthusiasm and work rate drives the whole team.

I'm lamenting the fact that his finishing ges through such bizarre and extreme fluctuations. From the sublime (like goals against Portsmouth and Newcastle) to th down right horrendous.

I think his problems stem from a mental block of sorts. Ronaldo is a big sulker and I actually include him in my prayers and maybe in a year or two he'll become a man. But his finishing is exemplary. If Rooney and Ronaldo could take the best parts of each others games and attitudes they would be close to unstoppable.
 

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Lol. This highly contentious and controversial thread is getting to me. Let me join in the fray...

Is Rooney overhyped? Yes. Only because at this moment, he is not the finished article of what he can become or anywhere near fulfilling his potential. But you really can't blame the media, football pundits and the fans alike. I mean, who is not genuinely excited, or often tempted to be carried away, by what a young, hot prospect may actually turn out to be?

Is he over-rated? No. He may not be scoring hat tricks for us like against Fenerbahce in his debut for us. He may not be our top scorer. Or he may be fluffing some easy opportunities, much to our aghast. However, he does score a fair amount of goals for us consistently every season, although not as much as we would hope for, and the sheer number of assists he gives us is incomparable and there for all to see. And of course, how to ignore the strange phenomenon of us not losing when he is playing. Coincidence? Possible but not probable. I believe it is his highly infectious hate-to-lose spirit, manifested in his chasing relentlessly for lost causes and losing his cool at times, that somewhat and inevitably, good or bad, increases the mood, the desires and the adrenalin of his team mates. Something I am sure rubs off on the rest and something they do appreciate whenever he is around.

And he is incredibly strong, skillful on the ball, good vision and a real menace to defenders. If I am a defender, I would hate to play against him because I know he will be perpetually breathing down my neck, snapping at my heels and ankles, and always wanting to take the ball away from me. I would be thinking: what a pest, what is wrong with him, why can't he leave me alone to make some nice-looking square passes with my fellow defenders as a prelude to another buildup.

In addition, a few, quick facts for validation.

To be fair to him, it has been unfortunate that whenever he gets into the groove of things, he has been injured or suspended, and hence breaking his strides. And he is young, afterall, and not expected to have consistent 6-star performance every game. The weight of public expectations may also be a contributing factor.

As somebody rightly pointed out, he has been evolving into a team player, as evidenced by the assists he provides. Nothing bad with that even if it is not him putting the ball in, for ultimately, it is the team play that wins us games and honours. An individual flamboyant player may win us matches but can we count on that game in, game out? Think Ronaldo who does disappear at times when we needed him badly for a moment of magic.

And we have almost forgotten he was and is never an outright striker, a striker-in-chief mould like RVN. His best position has always been playing as a supporting striker or the fox in the hole, coming in from deep and with a chief striker distracting the defenders, finds just that wee bit of extra time and space to inflict the maximum damage. Unfortunately, when Saha is out, we don't have any outright striker to provide that platform for him. It is true that he is combining well with Tevez, a similar player no doubt - we have no choice anyway - but it could also be the reason why Rooney has not been at his deadly best.

As I said, I am no Wazzamaniac; Club first always. But do I think Rooney is over-rated? Not a chance. Will I play him game in game out? Oh yes, you bet!
 

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There have been few players who have stolen the back page headlines quite like Cristiano Ronaldo. This season has seen the Portuguese international put in a series of spellbinding performances, scoring an astounding 27 goals in the process.

However, in the background of the media frenzy surrounding the Manchester United No. 7 stands a figure that has been just as crucial to the Red Devil’s progress this term.

In Wayne Rooney, Manchester United can point to the source of their inspiration, and the heartbeat of the side. This state of affairs has seen the fiery Liverpudlian play just as big a role as the Red Devils flying winger in shaping United’s results, even though he has scored fewer than of Ronaldo's goals.

Indeed, the story of Manchester United’s season can be told by the statistic that in the four games that they have lost in the Premier League so far, Wayne Rooney has been absent from them all.

A broken metatarsal received in the opening day fixture against Reading kept Rooney out of the first month of season, and thus the first of two derby defeats to Manchester City. November saw an ankle damaged in training lead to another spell on the sidelines and a further defeat away to Bolton Wanderers.

Another Rooney absence, this time due to a virus, saw him miss United’s 2-1 defeat to bogey team West Ham United, whilst a ridiculous dive against Tottenham Hotspur resulted in a one match ban that left Rooney in the stands as Sven Göran Erikkson’s Manchester City completed a famous double over their illustrious Mancunian rivals.

Rooney's impact can also be measured by the fact that during the 11 games that he has managed to miss this season, United have averaged only a paltry goal a game. When contrasted to the 57 goals in 23 games that a Rooney inspired Manchester United have scored, the difference is clear for all to see.

This difference in performance is further highlighted by United’s bluntness in front of goal in their four league defeats, with Cristiano Ronaldo’s headed goal against West Ham United and Michael Carrick’s last minute consolation against Manchester City being the only times that they managed to trouble the scoresheet.

But why has the presence of Wayne Rooney been such an important factor in Manchester United’s season when Cristiano Ronaldo has scored so many times?

It has been an obvious element of United’s attacking play that when Rooney has not played a distinct lack of energy and directness has been present. Indeed, in all of United’s defeats this season the displays have been insipid and distinctly un-inspiring, featuring wayward passes and moves that have fizzled out far too easily.

This is due to the fact that when Manchester United are without Rooney and his boundless energy, Carlos Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo simply lack the spark to ignite Manchester United’s goal threat against compact and dogged opposition.

The continued absence of Louis Saha has also seen United resort to playing Carlos Tevez alone up front when Rooney has been missing, a role the diminutive Argentine is simply not cut out to perform.

Unlike Rooney, Tevez lacks the strength to be able to hold up the ball for oncoming midfielders, with the Argentine’s style of play revolving firmly around the beautiful interplay with a strike partner. This has seen United prove to be incapable of keeping hold of the ball around the opposition’s penalty area, and has made them a much simpler proposition to deal with.

Sir Alex Ferguson's decision to play his central midfielders in much deeper roles than in previous seasons has also compounded United’s difficulties when Rooney is missing, as Tevez has struggled badly for support, and led to him being easy pickings for dominant centre halves such as Manchester City’s Richard Dunne and Micah Richards.

Another important feature of Wayne Rooney’s personality is the ‘never say die’ approach he brings to the game. With Rooney emitting this desire to win from every pore of his body, he visibly inspires his United team mates to perform to their highest level.

When one compares this to the way that Cristiano Ronaldo behaves in the face of adversity, the contrast is remarkable. For whilst Rooney is capable of dragging his team mates along with him, producing spell binding moments of defiance such as his last minute winner against AC Milan in the Champions League last year, Cristiano Ronaldo in Sunday’s defeat to Manchester City seemed to just exacerbate the difficulties faced by the Red Devils. Too often he looked to the referee for non-existent free kicks and sauntered back from offside positions rather than concentrating on the job at hand. This was certainly not the inspirational showing that a nominee for world player of the year should exhibit.

It is an unarguable fact that Cristiano Ronaldo is a more naturally gifted footballer than Wayne Rooney. However, for United’s prospects for the rest of the season it is vital that the repeated injury and disciplinary problems that have struck Rooney with a worrying regularity must stop.

If this occurs, then the already-overflowing Manchester United trophy room can expect to see a few new additions to its impressive collection, undoubtedly inspired by their talismanic number 10. If not, a distinct sense of frustration at what could have been achieved will surely envelope all those associated with the club.
 

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eoininho said:
Has he only played 16 games this season? how many goals is he on!?
Sorry, but that list isn't updated It's after the game against Man Shitty :eek:
Anyway, he is on 13 goals & 10 assists in 26 games this season. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
As I have already said in this thread, the fact that Rooney was missing from all the games that we have lost does not mean he is brilliant. We lost those games because Tevez was playing up front on his own, if Guiseppe Rossi had been alongside Tevez we would have won those games.

On the opening day of the season when we drew 0-0 with Reading we finished that game with O'shea playing upfront, thus proving that the squad was clearly not ready for the start of the season. Fergie knew that Saha was injured and Solkjaer was about to retire but he still took the decision to sell Rossi for quite little money.

We started the season with only one striker,Rooney, and once he got injured in the first game we were stuffed. It is a fact that if Rossi had been playing against Reading we would have won, if he had been playing away against Man City we would have won that also as we totally dominated but had no-one in the penalty box. It is these clear errors from Fergie that will probably cost us the league title.
 

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superguy said:
It is a fact that if Rossi had been playing against Reading we would have won, if he had been playing away against Man City we would have won that also as we totally dominated but had no-one in the penalty box.
I think you'll find that's an opinion :rolleyes:
 

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superguy said:
As I have already said in this thread, the fact that Rooney was missing from all the games that we have lost does not mean he is brilliant. We lost those games because Tevez was playing up front on his own, if Guiseppe Rossi had been alongside Tevez we would have won those games.

On the opening day of the season when we drew 0-0 with Reading we finished that game with O'shea playing upfront, thus proving that the squad was clearly not ready for the start of the season. Fergie knew that Saha was injured and Solkjaer was about to retire but he still took the decision to sell Rossi for quite little money.

We started the season with only one striker,Rooney, and once he got injured in the first game we were stuffed. It is a fact that if Rossi had been playing against Reading we would have won, if he had been playing away against Man City we would have won that also as we totally dominated but had no-one in the penalty box. It is these clear errors from Fergie that will probably cost us the league title.
so, you're basically rejecting a possibility that we lost because of rooney's absence and yet you are so positive that we would have won all those matches with rossi in the team. so correct me if i'm wrong but you think that rossi would have had more impact than rooney if you're so sure that we would have certainly won those matches while you reluctantly deny that we wouldn't have won them had rooney been playing.
it all comes down to this then - us saying : we lost because of rooney's absence
you saying : no - we lost because of rossi's absence
i think that's completely lack of respect towards rooney. what he has done for the club can't and mustn't be put behind giuseppe's few goals for villareal and 4 goals for United. giuseppe needs a lot of "vitamins" to eat to reach Rooney's level - he's a talented bloke, that's it
 

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superguy said:
It is a fact that if Rossi had been playing against Reading we would have won, if he had been playing away against Man City we would have won that also It is these clear errors from Fergie that will probably cost us the league title.

I like Rossi dont get me wrong but seriously you sounds like you can foresee what we didnt get to see, on what basis was that a fact? Anything to back that out? And sunshine, what errors are you talking about? Against City, the players were to be blame, they were souless. We are a point behind Arsenal from being five point apart so you tell me what errors are you talking about?
 

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superguy said:
Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham never got on very well, but Fergie did not sell either of them until they were past there best. There are no excuses, it was a bad error of judgement by Fergie to sell Ruud a world class goalscorer for only
£10m
SHERINGHAM was past his best, when we sold him???? Get real, we should have kept him for another 2 years.
 
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