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VaVaVoom said:
Canto..... That Barca comment is surely you been sarcastic
if Cristiano ronaldo Rooney and berba are all struggling against stoke i think messi too the fact that he might get his legs hacked at every two minutes as well wouldn't help him that's why i don't think ronaldinho came here as well not a lot of them players can handle it Ronaldo is a big strong 6 foot plus animal and he can barely take it oi don't fancy messi up against Faye in a physical battle he might skin him but than again i don't think they would fair much better if every Spanish team sat back!
 

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So if you stick the Stoke team in La Liga they have good chance of winning it, thats what your saying.

The Barca Midfield wouldn't even let Stoke have the ball, they would play piggy in the middle with them, pass their way out of trouble.

Canto i don't believe you serious here.
 

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There's Only One Darren Fletcher!
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Don't worry about the scorign so much
As paddy said on MUTV win 1-0 or 5-0 its still 3 points :)
 

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Im not saying they would win it not a chance and united didnt let stoke have the ball either there just hard to break down i can gaurentee if we swaped leagues with barca we would both be doing the same as each other! Just my opinion
 

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MUT all-time great
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The problem with it being 1-0 or 0-0 for large portions of the match, is that if something fluky happens (Adebayor scoring with his hand or something to that effect), we're immediately put into a position that drops points. If its two-nil, or higher, then we can afford to concede a late goal.

So that's why I think its a big deal. If we can be guaranteed to hold onto 1-0 leads, than excellent, I'd take it every time, but since its football, anything can happen, and nobody knows that better than a United supporter.
 

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The Mexican Boy George
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it definately bothers me, I mean the last couple of seasons we where hailed for scoring goals and winning by using beautiful football, now we look like mourinhos chelsea or pool with those late 1-0 wins. imo I think it comes down the fact that our whole strike force is down this season, apart from the little run rooney and the current form of berbs our strikers performance has been down from last season.
 

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Richie said:
I've done alot of thinking into this issue, as it cannot be just bad luck happening so often this far into the season, so I'm going to compile a list of what I consider to be the routes of the problem.

Okay here's my thoughts on possible reasons for this problem:

1. Lack of creativity in midfield
There seems to be a serious lack of creativity in our midfield. With Anderson and Scholes not the players the were last season, only carrick and Ronaldo seem capable of creating things at the moment, so chances aren;t being put on plates for people, hence less goals.

Solution: Well, I don't like this as a solution, but it seems that unless Nani and Anderson can buck up their ideas, reinforcements will have to be brought in.

2. lack of trust in left winger This ones a bit less easy to explain but I'll try. The players seem to know that the player on our left wing (usually park or nani) is likely ro tuin attacks and give the ball away. So rather than flowing moves that seem so natural, when the natural thing is to pass to the left winger in space, the players seem to be reluctant to pass it there and so move the ball in an unnatural direction which disrupts the flow of the move and often ends in the ball being lost.

Solution: Well it's either the same as number one or the team are just going to have to learn to trust that person even if the chances are they will go wrong.

3. New player in attack, whole team needs to adapt
Sometimes, when a new player is brought into the attack, the whole team needs to adjust not just that player. This is because they lose that natural understanding of their team mates which ultimately results in less chances in goals.

Solution: Time. That's all it needs, the understanding will come sooner or later and this problem will be solved.

4. Not having a striker who gets in behind
You need somebody to be getting in behind defenses to get chances through on goal. If you don't its like having an army without a front line. It seems we have plenty of possesion but when it comes to it there's no-one on the defenders shoulder just waiting for it to be dinked in behind so they can get one on one and score.

Solution: Well there's 2 roads to go down with this one. You can either bring in somebody who will do this, ei Benzema, and add to problem 3. Or just tell at least one of the strikers, who wouldnt normally do this, to just spend their time looking to go in behind, even if it sacrifices their chances of being involved in the build up play which they think theyr are best at. The risk of this is that a player has his own style, and may not play in a wholely different way to suit the system.

5. Lack of intensity When you have people who really fight for the team, it rubs off on others and it adds to the intensity. As it is we have a lack of that. And it just means people are a little slower making their runs and seeing the passes so maybe you lose a bit of cutting edge. I think this is why Fletcher has been in the team alot this season because he adds a bit of fight and urgency to the midfield

Solution: The players just need to motivate themselves to play with that bit extra intensity and urgency like they did last season, and they'll soon find they get that extra yard of space from defenders to create and take chances

6. No bruising target man working the back 4 If you have a big target man (ei Heskey or Drogba of old) people gamble on runs past them as they occupy defenders and win flicks ons into them, so people get the ball in scoring positions. But frankly I don't think this a neccesity and I think if the above problems are solved you don't need a target man.

7. Teams defending deeper than usual Teams are defending far deeper than ever this season against us, and it does stop you playing the normal defense-splitting football we're used to, aswell as helping our defensive record, but we just have to deal with that and learn to get goals regardless of teams defending in numbers.






They're just my thoughts, please comment on it as I'd love to hear why you disagree or agree with them.
:)

Very good post which I enjoyed reading.

Think it's a good assessment.To counter the problem of lack of creativity, Berba has been dropping deep and used his creativity to start attacks as seen with the goal against Wigan.

This means though that it's one striker less upfront.

Also, I totally agree with the winger on the left problem. The solution to that has been to play park and for him and Evra to take turn driving forward, but it's hardly ideal.

We started the season without much tenacity, but to my mind it's been improving since the Tottenham game (how could it now? :rolleyes: )

So I'm confident the lads are now getting into the right mind set and realize it's heading towards the business end of the season though.

Off all your points, my biggest concern would be the lack of a creative mid.

This irks me and is taking away from the team. Anderson could be that guy, but he seems so unwilling to join the attack.

We need someone who can carry the ball for ward, make a nice pass that stretches the defence and then keeps moving forward to join the attack.

Until now this season, it's been carrick spraying long passes and by then the whole play has moved back and United end up pushing the ball around infront of the opposing team.

We need someone who can dance through that minefield, play a one-two with a striker and keep on moving.

It's not that team are defending any more against us, but they are more tactically astute this season.
 

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we've scored 62 to goals so far in about half the season. last season we scored 110 goals. so i don't think we're that far off. true we've not had a period of huge wins like last season but we're still top of the table in bpl, last 16 in cl, 4th round in fa cup, semi final in the carling cup . as for the lack of creativity in midfield. i ask you what do you expect from your midfield. i can come up with three answer
. keeping possession
.making chances
.helping defend
this season in almost every match we have had more than 50% possession
we have plentiful chances in every match
we're on a record of 10 straight clean sheets
i think the problem is that when berba drops deep there is no one to attack the crosses.
so the obvious solution would be that we make Rooney or tevez drop deep and help the midfield and Barbados to stick in and around the penalty box or maybe the other way around
 

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RedForceRising said:
Very good post which I enjoyed reading.

Think it's a good assessment.To counter the problem of lack of creativity, Berba has been dropping deep and used his creativity to start attacks as seen with the goal against Wigan.

This means though that it's one striker less upfront.

Also, I totally agree with the winger on the left problem. The solution to that has been to play park and for him and Evra to take turn driving forward, but it's hardly ideal.

We started the season without much tenacity, but to my mind it's been improving since the Tottenham game (how could it now? :rolleyes: )

So I'm confident the lads are now getting into the right mind set and realize it's heading towards the business end of the season though.

Off all your points, my biggest concern would be the lack of a creative mid.

This irks me and is taking away from the team. Anderson could be that guy, but he seems so unwilling to join the attack.

We need someone who can carry the ball for ward, make a nice pass that stretches the defence and then keeps moving forward to join the attack.

Until now this season, it's been carrick spraying long passes and by then the whole play has moved back and United end up pushing the ball around infront of the opposing team.
We need someone who can dance through that minefield, play a one-two with a striker and keep on moving.

It's not that team are defending any more against us, but they are more tactically astute this season.

You're spot on really, and the point about evra is true, he's so important to us. but we still need another player on the left wing adding to the attack aswell.

The point about being infront of the oposition is true aswell, and without andone being creative in attacking positions, or anyone making runs in behind, the possession is idol.
 

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i am convinced that midfield is the root of utds goalscoring dilema they are not creative enough they do not push forward enough they are quite happy to sit in middle forcing our strikers to come back to get the ball .
on top of that i do not believe rooney or tevez are clinical strikers and will struggle to hit 20 goals per season ,berbatov will get more but we need to keep him in the danger zone and the midfield seem unable to push up and bolster the attacks like we always did in the past.
 

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sweet fa said:
i am convinced that midfield is the root of utds goalscoring dilema they are not creative enough they do not push forward enough they are quite happy to sit in middle forcing our strikers to come back to get the ball .
on top of that i do not believe rooney or tevez are clinical strikers and will struggle to hit 20 goals per season ,berbatov will get more but we need to keep him in the danger zone and the midfield seem unable to push up and bolster the attacks like we always did in the past.
That is a definite problem. IMO the midfield is just too nervous half the time to do anything about it. Only players like Giggs and Carrick seem to be able to move the ball forward. Ur also right that berbatov needs to begin to stay upfield more now. He is the one that will be able to score the most goals, no offense to Rooney and Tevez.
 

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Richie said:
I've done alot of thinking into this issue, as it cannot be just bad luck happening so often this far into the season, so I'm going to compile a list of what I consider to be the routes of the problem.
Bloomin' 'eck, top quality post! (It's quite long so I didn't want to quote it all)

Some terrific points there Richie and they all make a lot of sense.

It has to be a number of factors that has lead to our struggles in front of goal and tbf I think Richie has nailed all of them.
 

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Richie said:
I've done alot of thinking into this issue, as it cannot be just bad luck happening so often this far into the season, so I'm going to compile a list of what I consider to be the routes of the problem.

Okay here's my thoughts on possible reasons for this problem:

1. Lack of creativity in midfield
There seems to be a serious lack of creativity in our midfield. With Anderson and Scholes not the players the were last season, only carrick and Ronaldo seem capable of creating things at the moment, so chances aren;t being put on plates for people, hence less goals.

Solution: Well, I don't like this as a solution, but it seems that unless Nani and Anderson can buck up their ideas, reinforcements will have to be brought in.

2. lack of trust in left winger This ones a bit less easy to explain but I'll try. The players seem to know that the player on our left wing (usually park or nani) is likely ro tuin attacks and give the ball away. So rather than flowing moves that seem so natural, when the natural thing is to pass to the left winger in space, the players seem to be reluctant to pass it there and so move the ball in an unnatural direction which disrupts the flow of the move and often ends in the ball being lost.

Solution: Well it's either the same as number one or the team are just going to have to learn to trust that person even if the chances are they will go wrong.

3. New player in attack, whole team needs to adapt
Sometimes, when a new player is brought into the attack, the whole team needs to adjust not just that player. This is because they lose that natural understanding of their team mates which ultimately results in less chances in goals.

Solution: Time. That's all it needs, the understanding will come sooner or later and this problem will be solved.

4. Not having a striker who gets in behind
You need somebody to be getting in behind defenses to get chances through on goal. If you don't its like having an army without a front line. It seems we have plenty of possesion but when it comes to it there's no-one on the defenders shoulder just waiting for it to be dinked in behind so they can get one on one and score.

Solution: Well there's 2 roads to go down with this one. You can either bring in somebody who will do this, ei Benzema, and add to problem 3. Or just tell at least one of the strikers, who wouldnt normally do this, to just spend their time looking to go in behind, even if it sacrifices their chances of being involved in the build up play which they think theyr are best at. The risk of this is that a player has his own style, and may not play in a wholely different way to suit the system.

5. Lack of intensity When you have people who really fight for the team, it rubs off on others and it adds to the intensity. As it is we have a lack of that. And it just means people are a little slower making their runs and seeing the passes so maybe you lose a bit of cutting edge. I think this is why Fletcher has been in the team alot this season because he adds a bit of fight and urgency to the midfield

Solution: The players just need to motivate themselves to play with that bit extra intensity and urgency like they did last season, and they'll soon find they get that extra yard of space from defenders to create and take chances

6. No bruising target man working the back 4 If you have a big target man (ei Heskey or Drogba of old) people gamble on runs past them as they occupy defenders and win flicks ons into them, so people get the ball in scoring positions. But frankly I don't think this a neccesity and I think if the above problems are solved you don't need a target man.

7. Teams defending deeper than usual Teams are defending far deeper than ever this season against us, and it does stop you playing the normal defense-splitting football we're used to, aswell as helping our defensive record, but we just have to deal with that and learn to get goals regardless of teams defending in numbers.






They're just my thoughts, please comment on it as I'd love to hear why you disagree or agree with them.
:)
You surely know your thing, keep it up. A very accurate analysis.
 

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RoxiiUtd said:
You surely know your thing, keep it up. A very accurate analysis.

How can you agree with that crap we are top of the league and havent conceded in 10 games we are on 24 on the goaldifference thats 3 behind liverpool !

People stress about united to much we are the best squad and team in the world worry less about the goals if we dont let any in we can win 1-0 its still 3 points.
 

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United's masseuse
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red dave said:
How can you agree with that crap we are top of the league and havent conceded in 10 games we are on 24 on the goaldifference thats 3 behind liverpool !

People stress about united to much we are the best squad and team in the world worry less about the goals if we dont let any in we can win 1-0 its still 3 points.
Yes, we are the best squad and team in the world but that doesn`t mean we are perfect. We are close too ;) But there are some things we should improve.

I don`t want to defend anyone, nd i am answering this just because it was directed to me. But i don`t think he wants to criticize the team or something. He is not saying that 1-0 wins are wrong, he is just analyzing why aren't we scoring more, because it is debatable ; we have got the talent to do that, so why aren`t we? And in my opinion, his post was the answer for this.
 
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RoxiiUtd said:
Yes, we are the best squad and team in the world but that doesn`t mean we are perfect. We are close too ;) But there are some things we should improve.

I don`t want to defend anyone, nd i am answering this just because it was directed to me. But i don`t think he wants to criticize the team or something. He is not saying that 1-0 wins are wrong, he is just analyzing why aren't we scoring more, because it is debatable ; we have got the talent to do that, so why aren`t we? And in my opinion, his post was the answer for this.
Yeah you tell him Roxii :p

She's right Dave, just because you don't agree with somebody it doesn't make them wrong or mean their opinion is 'crap'.

If we all agreed on everything there would be no need for a forum ;)
 

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red dave said:
How can you agree with that crap we are top of the league and havent conceded in 10 games we are on 24 on the goaldifference thats 3 behind liverpool !

People stress about united to much we are the best squad and team in the world worry less about the goals if we dont let any in we can win 1-0 its still 3 points.
I am as passionate a Manchester United supporter as anyone, but I don't agree with you. The midfielders and strikers of Barcelona are superior to ours this season, we are not only lacking creativity in midfield this season but we are also lacking a tough defensive midfielder who can win the ball and give us steel in midfield. Our strikers are not scoring goals partly because of the lack of creativity in midfield but mostly because they are all playing too far away from the goal and are not making runs behind the defence.

When we are playing against teams that are putting everyone behind the ball and not giving us any space it is a bit pointless to have so many players dropping deep because we are never going to pass the ball into the net away from home against teams like Stoke and Bolton. Look what happened when Berbatov ran into the box and got onto the end of a cross, we scored a goal. Football really isn't that complicated, the closer that Berbatov is to the goal the more chance he has of scoring.

The problem is we don't have anyone in our squad who is suited to making runs behind the defence and scoring goals, Rooney has very good movement and can make the runs but he lacks composure and is a poor finisher so the further away he is from the goal the better in IMHO. Rooney is ideal behind the main striker because his passing and vision is excellent and he can create goals, he also has excellent shooting ability from distance so that position is ideal for Rooney as long as he is not overweight and off the pace as he is far too often these days. Berbatov is the one most suited to leading the line for us this season so Sir Alex needs to tell him to play like a target man and stop coming deep, that may not be what he's best at but he needs do that that for the sake of the team.

I personally don't think we would have won the trophies last season had it not been for the amazing season that Ronaldo had, we relied on him heavily for our goals last season and now that his form has dipped we are seeing that our recognised strikers don't contribute enough individually. I think we need to let Tevez leave and spend the money on a proper centre forward like Benzema, then Berbatov can drop deep and play the way he likes to and Rooney can warm the bench until he decides to start working and maintaining fitness so that he is not overweight and slow all the time.
 

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RoxiiUtd said:
You surely know your thing, keep it up. A very accurate analysis.
haha thankyou very much :)


red dave said:
How can you agree with that crap we are top of the league and havent conceded in 10 games we are on 24 on the goaldifference thats 3 behind liverpool !

People stress about united to much we are the best squad and team in the world worry less about the goals if we dont let any in we can win 1-0 its still 3 points.
Mate you've missed the point compeltely , I'm not saying we're a bad team or anything, the thread is about why we're scoring less goals this season, which is a fact (hate to sound like Rafa there) and I was simply giving explanations for it.

I completely agree with you that we have the best squad and we're doing incredible to be top with 10 straight clean sheets, and ahead in the league without nearly playing our best football yet, but that's irrelevant to this thread
 

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I would rather have 30pts from 1-0 wins than say half of that from giddy 4-4 draws.Chelsea were the masters at grinding 1-0 wins,the fact is it wins titles.Although it seems like a lack of creativity,id rather create that one chance that gets the 3 points than have 20 shots on target and come away with nothing.As long as the wins rack up im not concerned,if your defense is solid,you only need 1 to win a game
 
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