Manchester United Talk banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Proto-Hipster
Joined
·
46,959 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Most, if not all, of us here have taken some degree of satisfaction at watching what is going on over at Manchester this summer, with Malcom Glazer threatening to turn the Old Trafford frnachise into some sort of football Burger King (many of us would argue that Martin Edwards already achieved this in the mid 1990s).

Man UTD dominated the 1990s - we cannot deny that - and they got off to a fairly good start in the noughties as well, winning the league in 2000, 2001 and 2003 and winning the FA Cup in 2004.

However, in the past two seasons they have finished third in the league and since winning the big one in 1999, they haven't exactly set Europe alight either.

Arsenal have definitely passed them out in football terms - despite Man UTD beating them handsomely home and away in the league last year - and with the dawn of the new Abramovich/Kenyon/Mourinho Chelski era, not only are Chelsea now a far better football team than Man UTD, with a bigger squad and simply better players, Chelski can also dominate Man UTD (and the rest of us) in the money stakes.

Man UTD had the comfort of knowing in the 1990s that if they slipped, even slightly, they could go out and spend lavishly to restore them to top spot. In 1998 Arsenal won the league and cup double, so Man UTD went out and spent £25million on Yorke, Stam and Blomquist.

This season they have gone out and bought Van Der Saar and Park Juing. Park is not a bad player, but he's not exactly the kind of signing where people sit back and take notice. Had Birmingham signed him you might have thought "not a bad buy there" but really, not exactly a huge arrival that will signal a statement of intent for next season.

On top of that, Ferguson goes out and buys Edwin Van Der Saar. A decent goalkeeper, but at 34, he is nothing more than a sticky plaster over a wound festering ever since Peter Schmeichel retired.

Man UTD will probably buy one or two more Parks and Van der Saars this summer, but talk of Michael Owens, Robinhos and Gattusos are wide of the mark.

Man UTD are no longer the dominant, all powerful Goliath they were 5 or 6 years ago. We can all see that. But is the problem at that club more severe and advanced than that?

The way I see it, the club are flogging the dead horse of Keane, Gary Neville, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes season after season after season. Forget Ronaldo, RVN and Rooney: those guys are the spine of the team, its character and personality. They were all great players, and are still capable of going on a 15 game sequence of splendid form that will make all of England sit up and take notice. But they cannot keep going forever. Roy Keane had a good season last year, but he's going into his mid 30s now and I have a feeling that next summer he will surprise everybody by retiring. Paul Scholes is a marvelous player - such skill and vision - but I detect that his motor is beginning to wane and I'm beginning to question whether his hunger is still there. He is entering his 30s and probably has a few seasons left yet, but not as the Championship winning midfielder we all feared a few years ago.

And what about Giggs? Tremendous player on his day, with immaculate dribbling skills and a dangerous intellugence in and about the box, but Giggs only seems to have 10 good days a season now, before injury and mixed form kicks in. Again, like Scholes, he strikes me as a fella who should probably be in the colours of a Deportivo la Coruna or Valencia now, playing skillful but relaxed football in a sunny clime rather than have Ben Thatcher and Robbie Savage kick lumps out of him on a November Saturday afternoon.

Where are the new players to replace these Man UTD greats? Park looks a handy winger, but to me he's a poor man's Marc Overmars than a 25 year old Ryan Giggs. What about Scholes? UTD have Darren Fletcher in their ranks but nobody else. Fletcher is a useful player but Scholes' replacement? Not a chance.

UTD have struggled a lot since Schmeichel went, but what happens when the real power behind UTD's success in the 1990s - Roy Keane - goes? Ferguson is looking at Guttoso who has some of Keane's lung busting ability to cover the ground and tackle everything that moves, but has none of Keane's ability to retain possession and the old Keane's capability of powering into the opposition box. In any event, I think Gattuso is out of UTD's range. So is Essien, a very good player, but again, no Keane. Ferguson is talking about converting Alan Smith into a defensive midfielder.....Fergie, don't make me laugh.

That brings me nicely on to the big man himself, Sir Alex. The guy is a legend, no doubt about that, but he is no Shanks, Paisley or Clough. With all of the riches of the world at his disposal and a golden team of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and Keane, he could only win one European trophy. Cloughie, with a regional team and small budget, won two, two at a time when Liverpool were dominating. Paisley would have shown Ferguson a thing or two of how to make hay when the sun shone.

But enough of that, we cannot deny that Ferguson was a great domestic manager. However, I feel he is beginning to lose the Midas touch........I'm a bit reluctant to say he has lost it already. UTD players look disinterested in the early stages of each season, often culminating in an embarassing away defeat to lowly side in October, before Ferguson getting the hair drier out and they go off on a great three month run. The thing is, its happening every season now, and I'm beginning to wonder that they are allowed to go soft over the summer.

What is more, Ferguson is beginning to change his methods, not a good thing to be doing at this late stage in your career. He built his great sides on a mixture of modest players (Butt, Neville, Bruce and Irwin) with great attitude and commitment with more skillful players (Giggs and Scholes) that knew no other way to play football but to give it everything and attack, attack, attack. Fergie would pick a 4-4-2 side with wingers and try and blast the oppositon.....a tactic that often worked.

Since 2001, however, the guy has decided to change things. He no longer has complete faith in 4-4-2, and tried to use Veron in a strange Christmas three formation. Last season he mucked about with a defensive 4-4-1-1 formation against AC Milan: and got roundly beaten.

He has also lost his knack in the transfer market......if he ever had a knack in the first place. People that were around in the 1980s will remember the amount of rubbish Ferguson bought when he first took charge. He got it mostly right in the 1990s, but now he is reverting to type.

Eric Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Diego Forlan, Luis Saha, Liam Miller, David Bellion and Ricardo have all been relatively recent signings, and all have failed miserably. Its true that a few have worked out like Ronaldo and Heinze, but in the Glazer era, with Chelski ruling the money roost, Ferguson can no longer afford to blow his wad on rubbish, no more than the rest of us can.

But the thing is, if Man UTD want to get back to the top of the Premiership and make a real go of it in Europe, they need to spend money. Van der Saar is not the long term answer in goal. He will do a job next season, but really, by signing him, Ferguson is passing the problem on to his successor. Gary Neville has a few years ahead of him yet, but will need replacing eventually. Their defense is in reasonable shape, despite the over rated Ferdinand, but therein lies another potential problem. In Rio, they have a Big Time Charlie who will put Beckham in the shade, and he's fussing over a new contract, looking for more than £120,000 a week! They have two choices: sell him, but only get around £20million of their £33million expenditure on him, or pay him what he wants: and risk the other players wanting the same.
continued
 

·
Proto-Hipster
Joined
·
46,959 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Its in midfield where UTD have their real problems. To get in three players to adequately replace Keane, Giggs and Scholes would probably cost between £75-£100million in the transfer market, together with some luck that those three new signings settled in. There is no way that those kind of funds will be available under Glazer, and save Ferguson pulling off 3 £8 million signings of the highest genius, I don't see a solution. He might get one gem on the cheap, but not three. To top that off, there are no new kids coming through the ranks, so Ferguson has to go to the market.

Up front it appears that they are ok.......or are they? Rooney is an incredible talent and if he keeps his nose clean, he could be one of the greatest ever. However, there is always the chance of a Paul Gascoigne, rather than a Pele, emerging from that player. RVN was fantastic for a few years, but he's approaching 30, had a bad year last year, and is getting more and more injury prone. Luis Saha simply and plainly hasn't worked out. Ole Gunnar Solskjaere is not going to come back and carry on where he left off: he is another guy in his early 30s.

Man UTD are at a crossroads. Their golden era is over, and Arsenal and Chelsea have passed them out. They face an uncertain future ahead of them, with a few serious and potentially crippling problems - replacing Keane and Scholes - ahead of them in the next two or three years. They clearly need to rebuild, but so did we, and I suspect that we have stolen a march on them. They are the team of the 1990s, but I think at times they are a club stuck in the 1990s. Chelsea, Liverpool and probably Arsenal are the future. Chelsea and Liverpool are employing new methods and new ideas which is threatening to make the old ways redundant.

Man UTD and Ferguson might have one last glory afternoon left in them yet. I wouldn't rule them out. They could, thereotically, win the Premiership one last time. However, thats getting increasingly unlikely.

Next year is crucial for them. We will be revamped and full of optimism, and we are ready to make a charge to over take them. It could well happen. If UTD were to slip to fourth and finish trophyless again, there will be a clamour for Ferguson to go. If Ferguson goes, Keane will follow. Giggs and Scholes might give the successor a year, before heading for Spain or Italy for one last big pay day.

When Ferguson goes, who will replace him? What players will the new man have at his disposal? What money will be available to buy replacements?

Maybe the tide has already turned on MAn UTD and they are already in decline, but like Friday the 13th, we are too afraid to say the bad guy is dead incase he comes back one last time?
lol :D :D :D what a scouse
but he have a point (stupid point :D)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,926 Posts
TBH, we went through a very depressing stage a few seasons back.

But as all great teams do, we stayed strong and have come back stronger then
ever thanks to a fantastic manager and a bunch of wonderful players, well most
of them :rolleyes:

The thing is Liverpool are the team in decline and its they who should be worrying
about their top 4 status over the coming seasons because Chelski have the
money, Arsenal have young players and we're in a nice eb now of young and old.
Its Liverpool who are fading now. How they can say, "However, in the past
two seasons they have finished third in the league
" is beyond belief when
they've never won it! :rolleyes:

"Their golden era is over, and Arsenal and Chelsea have passed them out.
"...really? Its they and us who have passed you out!


I could pick out numerous examples of stupid comments.....bliddy scousers! :p
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
15,336 Posts
Keano! said:
TBH, we went through a very depressing stage a few seasons back.

But as all great teams do, we stayed strong and have come back stronger then
ever thanks to a fantastic manager and a bunch of wonderful players, well most
of them :rolleyes:

The thing is Liverpool are the team in decline and its they who should be worrying
about their top 4 status over the coming seasons because Chelski have the
money, Arsenal have young players and we're in a nice eb now of young and old.
Its Liverpool who are fading now. How they can say, "However, in the past
two seasons they have finished third in the league
" is beyond belief when
they've never won it! :rolleyes:

"Their golden era is over, and Arsenal and Chelsea have passed them out.
"...really? Its they and us who have passed you out!


I could pick out numerous examples of stupid comments.....bliddy scousers! :p
Great post. Nothing more to add really.

Haven't people learned that you never doubt Man Utd and/or Sir Alex Ferguson?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
Lol what a joke. In the end it just turned out to be the fault of a few flop signings all made around the same time and Peter Kenyon screwing up the Ronaldinho deal. Extremely unfortunate.

Would be interesting to see a Liverpoo point of view from this year.
 

·
Smeghead Moderator
Joined
·
13,664 Posts
I remember an article in The Times before the start of the 06/07 season saying that Fergie was past it, Chelsea would dominate for years because of their spending power, that only signing Michael Carrick showed we were a spent force in the transfer market and that we'd finish 4th.

2 league titles and a Champions League win later and I can honestly say I'd love to meet the journalist who wrote that! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
590 Posts
I can actually relate to some of the things said in that article but now being able to look back it is clear that the person who wrote that is very wrong and he should never have doubted Fergie.

He made a fair point about having to replace Giggs, Scholes and Keane and where would their replacements come from. It is probably true to say United have never replaced Roy Keane but instead bought in other midfielders that have shown the potential to become top players at United.

Fergie did admittedly have a poor time in the trasfer market 2004-2006 but since then he has found his feet again. Anderson, Nani, Tevez, Hargreaves and Carrick have all come in and been excellent additions to the squad.

Louis Saha was heavily criticised in that post but I think his form in the calender year of 2006 shows that his ability is not in question. Unfortunatly he has had a real bad time of it with inuries, which is no ones fault at United.

The post included a lot of if's, butt's and maybe's but in the end, United have come out and shown to the world that we are still the team to beat.

The post also included its fair share of ridiculous comments that I won't go into.

I hope the person who wrote that was watching on 11th May and 21st May this year, and went to the fridge for a big slice of humble pie :D
 

·
Proto-Hipster
Joined
·
46,959 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
i have signed in liverpool forum
and i posted in torres thread that robbie keane can be better than torres and robbie have many better advantages
and also replied to another post "torres is clinical more than solskjear"
and i said the torres isnt clinical and solskjear is way to more clinical and lethal than torres
Guess what happened :D 6 warnings :D
both posts deleted btw
imo they are overrating their torres boy and underrating our legends
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,740 Posts
Haha what forum Abo !? Talklfc ? I have a friend on that and he's pretty experienced over 3000 posts. He shows me some of there threads and the majority are pretty delusional :p
 

·
Proto-Hipster
Joined
·
46,959 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Nemanjaaa said:
Haha what forum Abo !? Talklfc ? I have a friend on that and he's pretty experienced over 3000 posts. He shows me some of there threads and the majority are pretty delusional :p
its name is LFC forum discussion
they are after my head cuz i called torres overrated :D
Bloody scousers wums
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,457 Posts
Did that fellow call Van De Sar a patch over a festering wound? At 34 Van De Sar is better than Reina.

As for them saying we'll buy a few more Parks, Park is easily twice or three times as good as any Liverpool winger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
just been on a liverpool forum and they are all trying to find reasons why united wont win anything this season and the best they have come up with is that this season will be a transition period for united and the effect of carlos leaving could prove disastrous for us

laughable!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
man utd the best and this year we gonna win community shield super cup world fifa cup and followed by 18 tittle that 11 for giggsy and C1 again we have better squad than any team
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
How old is that comment?

Liverpool supporters like to refer to themselves as being the 'best' fans in the world, and they point to things like the atmosphere of Anfield, however good or bad that is in reality, to prove such points. But they there admit how emotional and passionate they can be; and they fail to admit that their emotion often misguides them into delusion.

Over the years, they have seen trends in the direction of their club which have proven to be false. Be it under Evans or Houllier or Benitez, they have consistently felt, for various reasons, that they are about to turn a corner; they felt number 19 with every strand of their desire to relive those ancient glory days. But to see things that aren't there, is insanity.

I assume that the writing that was quoted in the original post of this thread, was from somewhere around 2003. I'm not certain if that is so, but if it is, I find it very amusing to read yet another of their delusions.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top