Manchester United Talk banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Been asked to post up facts and figures by a few people so here's where i'll put it all.

Manchester United supporters are facing ticket price rises of up to 14% next season.

The Old Trafford outfit have released details of pricings for the 2007-08 campaign, which could yet see them defending the treble.

The biggest increases are in the lower tiers of the North and South Stands, which will rise from £665 to £722, while the most expensive seats in the stadium are the upper tier of both stands, which rise over 12% to £836.


...for another 14% ticket prise increase on top of last years 12% and the 13% the year before.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/1005/1005479_united_ticket_prices_rise.html


If you compound that, it's a 44.28% price rise in just 3 years. Or, put another way, more than doubling every 6 years.

Still, nothing has changed under the Glazers. :eek:
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Facts and Figures on the Glazer debt..

The Glazers may sensibly be keeping their personal profile low and letting the team do United's talking but these price rises are connected to their takeover and the need to pay off the massive £660m debt with which it has saddled United. The Glazers moved last summer to repay those original borrowings with other loans at less stinging interest and to attract the banks they promoted the current season's 14% price increase. In refinancing documents circulated in the City, which I have seen, the club promised that with the extra money from fans, along with increased TV income, boosted sponsorship deals with AIG and others and the drive to make more money from United's estimated 75m fans globally, the club would be able to repay the debts.

The documents show that the Glazers paid a total of £831m for United - £790m for the club and £41.3m in fees to banks and other professional firms. The family paid only £272m of their own money, borrowing the other £559m. Of the latter, £284m was arranged by the merchant bank JP Morgan and £275m came in much riskier "preferred securities" from three hedge funds, Citadel, Och-Ziff and Perry Capital, charging eye-wateringly high interest.

When the Glazers refinanced, after only a year, those hedge funds had accumulated a further £79.1m in interest and other payments, meaning the total owed to them had swollen to £354.1m. The family managed last summer to negotiate £525m in new loans at lower interest - still over 8%, about £42m a year. That replaced the money they originally borrowed to finance the takeover, except for £138m still owed to the hedge funds. The interest on that is running at 14.25% - £19.66m a year. That makes the total borrowed by the Glazers £663m, more than six times the loans which have proved the ruin of Leeds United. The annual interest alone adds up to £62m.

The warning by the supporter groups about this kind of "leveraged" takeover turned out to be true: the debt borrowed was then loaded on to United itself. The legendary football club, previously - famously - the only English club free of debt, now has to service £663m borrowings and annual interest of £62m. The season-ticket price increase now being charged to fans will go, partly, to service that, the cost of a takeover none of them wanted.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The Family Business

£663m
Total debts taken on by Manchester United to pay for the Glazer family takeover

£70.4m
The total spent on banks' and professionals' fees to arrange the takeover and 2006 refinancing

£62m
United's interest payments a year

£25m
The club's seasonal budget for signing new players, plus a possible further £25m to splash out on a star


14%
Season ticket price rise next season

£300
Possible additional cost - if United progress to later stages of cups - of 2007-08 season tickets because buying cup tickets becomes compulsory
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
And before anyone says United have spent £70m on players the facts are they havn't actually spent £70m. ( dont forget he Glazers have spent absolutly zero pounds ).


http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...cle2739697.ece

United buy now but pay later to stay on budget
How have Manchester United, laden with £660m of debt, suddenly managed to find £71m in one summer to outspend their rivals? It's the question that some fans are asking. And the simple answer is: they haven't.
The headline figures of United's transfer window are £17m, £17m, £17m and £20m. Those are amounts United have agreed to pay for Anderson, Nani, Owen Hargreaves, and, perhaps, Carlos Tevez.
This is not the whole story. The Glazers' expenditure may be below the £25m they originally promised Sir Alex Ferguson.
How? Tevez, 23, will arrive on a two-year loan deal, and although that might cost a yearly fee of £4m to £8m, buying him outright can be deferred to a future year's accounts, if they exercise their option.
Brazil's Anderson, 19, and Portugal's Nani, 20, are being bought effectively on HP. United are understood to have paid £7m and £8m up front, and will pay the rest over the terms of the deals.
And while Hargreaves, 26, has cost a chunk up front, he became a United player only on 1 July, and the outlay falls into next year's accounts.
So instead of £70m, United have spent only £20m already.
Nick Harris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,084 Posts
Thats pretty scary reading isnt!.. And makes you wonder whats going to happen.

Why would the glazer family take out so much debt to the club, what are they thinking they will get out of it? Any thoughts?
 

·
Smeghead Moderator
Joined
·
13,664 Posts
David Gill said back in Jan 2006 that Man United had taken on around £275m of the debt and the rest was taken on by the Glazer's holding company...meaning that the Glazer's could not just walk away from the club as they were liable for the rest of the debt.

Was he lying?
 

·
Smeghead Moderator
Joined
·
13,664 Posts
BTW, this is a snippet from the article I got that from...

While Gill's assertion will be met with disdain by major supporter groups, he was able to clarify some of the misconceptions he feels have grown around the debt.

"There are two elements to the debt, the hedge funds and the senior debt," explained Gill. "The hedge funds have no security over the club and no influence over it either. Yes, they have to be repaid but that is something the Glazers will do from their own resources or refinancing plans in time.

"Manchester United is supporting the senior debt, which is around £265million to £275million. People need to recognise the cost of servicing the interest on that debt is not in excess of the what we were previously paying in dividends and corporation tax as a publicly quoted company."
 

·
Smeghead Moderator
Joined
·
13,664 Posts
SolskjaertheLegend said:
wait, so £375 million of the debt is being paid by ALL of Glazers assets, not just Man Utd??
That's what I'm trying to establish - members of MUST have repeatedly claimed that United are liable for all the debt whilst Gill has said otherwise (although it was 17 months ago).

I'm not sure who to believe TBH.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Herein lies the problem. As United have been delisted from the stock exchange, their books are no longer visible - the Glazers et al can tell us whatever.

There is a train of thought that Glazer never intended a full takeover - he wanted to what coolmore did and wait for someone tp come in for his share holding at profit. Remember that he borrowed a lot of money from Commerzbank to fund his initial stock holding. Come the spring of 2005 the repayments on this loan were starting to bite so the situation was look for a buyer and sell at profit or lanuch a full takeover in which they could restructure the debt and transfer a lot of it onto the club and it's holding company.

It wouldnt suprise me if the club changes hands in the not too distant future.
 

·
Smeghead Moderator
Joined
·
13,664 Posts
SolskjaertheLegend said:
weren't that company from Dubai after us?

I might be mistaken but I think I remember reports in the media of a Chinese consortium approaching the Glazer's about the sale of the club.

I think a 'club spokesperson' waffled on about the Glazer's seeing United as a long-term investment and would reject all offers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
40% up tickets since that **** Glazer took over. Good to see some other United fans who seemed to be a bit more clued in.

Also don't forget season tickets still on sale. There goes that many thousands of peoples waiting list. What a joke.
 

·
has been served
Joined
·
2,947 Posts
reddwarf said:
I might be mistaken but I think I remember reports in the media of a Chinese consortium approaching the Glazer's about the sale of the club.

I think a 'club spokesperson' waffled on about the Glazer's seeing United as a long-term investment and would reject all offers.

yeah I remember that, I think they rang up about and and "they where laughed out the door"
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
RedArmy said:
40% up tickets since that **** Glazer took over. Good to see some other United fans who seemed to be a bit more clued in.

Also don't forget season tickets still on sale. There goes that many thousands of peoples waiting list. What a joke.

True mate. The actual across the board rise in season ticket prices is 42.3%.
The 20,000 season ticket waiting list turned to 18,000 the disappeared over night.
12,000 did not renew this season.There is no waiting list.
Personally have had about a dozen E-Mails asking if i require season tickets. Know many, many, many REDS who have been plagued with pleas to buy tickets.
Anyone phoning the ticket office can get one there and then.
Posted below is a real phone call from someone i know persnally. ( proof by PM if anyone doubts ).

I just called the ticket office and said....

Me : "I'm thinking of getting a season ticket for next season, but I understand there is a waiting list is that correct?"

Agent: "No Sir not at all, we have a number of season tickets available which you can buy"

Me: "Oh right, so there is no waiting list anymore then?"

Agent: "Well Sir, we've been working off the waiting list, and there are some available that you could buy"

Me: "ok. Can you tell me what a One year Season ticket is"

Agent: "It's just a season ticket for one year"

Me: "Isn't that the same as a normal season ticket?"

Agent: "No sir, it's for one year only and then you'll get a reminder at the end of the season to give you the chance to renew it"

Me: "So what's the difference between that and a normal season ticket? don't they have to renew those season tickets as well?"

Agent: "Yes Sir, but it's not as permanent as a normal season ticket, in that you can keep your seat between seasons"

Me: "So effectively they're the same thing, but you just don't get the same seat"

Agent: "That's correct sir. It's a way of getting you onto that first run of the ladder so at some point we'll be able to offer you a more permanent season ticket".

Me: "If I buy a season ticket where will my seat be located?"

Agent: "We have a number of one year season tickets available but only in the South Lower, but we also have a number of other season tickets based around the ground so if you were interested in only one, I could have a look and place you someone really good"

Me: "Really? so isn't there the demand for them then? It seems a bit odd that somewhere like Old Trafford an I can get a choice of where I sit just like that"

Agent: "Well the phones are picking up a bit, which is probably due to it being closer to the season so demand may be picking up now but our lines are open until 8pm this evening so if you want to call back later when you've thought about it then please do, but obviously there's no gaurantee that the same seats will be available."

Me: "Thanks mate, but I was just curious really. I won't go back to Old Trafford until the Glazers are gone"

Agent: "Oh, right. Ok sir. Thanks for your call."

End Call.


Conclusion:-

1) A one year season ticket is no different from a normal season ticket except for the regular seat, bit like the old LMTB's. You still have to join the cup scheme as with the permanent season ticket. Those with a one year season ticket should in theory be offered new permanent ST's when they become available. There are plenty of these tickets available but only in the south stand.

2) Permanent season tickets are also available and you could pick one up without having a one year season ticket first and getting "promoted" when your were offered one.

3) The "waiting list" is now a list of United season tickets waiting for new customers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
That's not half of it, the fact that i had to apply for this cup ticket scheme and my card gets debited without consent. pisses me right off.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
RedArmy said:
That's not half of it, the fact that i had to apply for this cup ticket scheme and my card gets debited without consent. pisses me right off.

Luckily i've not had to pay for a ticket for about 8 years, if i had i would have been out years ago, but i know how you must feel mate, hear the same thing every day, along with having to buy tickets even if you don't want them or can't get to the game. It's just the way they can say " we've sold x amount of tickets so nothing is wrong here ".
And then to top it all they tell you that you can sell them through the " buy back " system....talikng 8% comission from your side of the sale. Making them even more money.
THE REAL FANS ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. :mad:

..................L.U.H.G.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Following the debt restructure in July 2006, £525m of the debt is now on the books of Manchester United, with the remaining £135m of the PIK (interest roll-up) debt still in the name of the Glazers.

Recent comments about a further restructure were aimed at repaying this debt, if nothing else. The Glazers would then have succeeded in transferring all the purchase debt onto United.

David Gill's comments about dividends and taxation are a real red-herring. United paid around £6m a year in dividends as a plc, with a further payment of around £9m in Corporation tax. In the "worst" year, 2003, a total of £19.9m was paid. How this compares with the interest bill of £62m a year under Glazer ownership, I don't know...

The total dividend bill over the fourteen years as a plc came to just £66m.

On ticket prices, my last game at Old Trafford was against Chelsea in May 2005. The face value is £29. In the season to come, the same seat for that same match will cost £44. That's a £15 increase, or 51.7% more in less than three years. It's a good job I'm not going these days, otherwise I'd have to jack it in anyway!

Maybe they won't send us to the wall with all their debt. Maybe we will never have to sell our best players. Old Trafford might never be the Nike Bowl. But there's one thing you can be absolutely sure of. The Glazers do NOTHING for our club. NOTHING that we couldn't have done for ourselves and saved £60m a year and that crazy £70m we had to pay for their takeover and refinancing fees! For that I will always resent their opportunism and their unstinting greed in exploiting the loyalty of football fans in the same way a dealer exploits the addiction of his addicts...
 

·
Smeghead Moderator
Joined
·
13,664 Posts
There's some very interesting comments in this thread. I always like to hear both sides of the argument so I can make up my own mind.

Thanks to kingstreet for the info about the refinancing and to salford red for that phone conversation.

Season tickets are being advertised on manutd.com so I knew the waiting list claim was a load of rubbish. Whether they sell them or not though the ground will be full for almost every game next season.

The Glazers are obviously out for themselves - that was never a question in my mind. They can claim that they are interested in 'soccer' but I don't believe them - they are interested in money, plain and simple.

However, I'm still keeping my wait and see attitude about the running of the club. They obviously want to make the club successful, if only to line their own pockets. With the number of foreign investors now in the Premiership the reality is that if the Glazers hadn't done it then somebody else would. It's just frustrating and annoying that we were taken over by someone who has put the club into so much debt.

Some may argue that my approach is asking for trouble - what if we 'wait and see' and then it's too late? But the scary truth is there is little we can do. The protests and planned boycotts at the time of the takeover had little effect and the business machine that is United just keeps on going because there is a fan base all over the World that could not care less who the owners are as long as the team they support is winning football matches.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top