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Discussion Starter #1
As predicted - more trouble in Rome as United fans travelled there to support the
boys.

We all knew it would happen and now 7 United supporters' wonderful trip has
landed them in hospital :(

Sal quite rightly points out to us that some of these Roma fans wait by a bridge in
Rome and these are the 'Ultras' or trouble makers.

Maybe some of the United fans went there looking for trouble too.

So if Sal is aware of the trouble spot by this bridge why aren't the Rome police ?

This area should be fenced off - and the problem dispersed !!!

Sal also said that maybe Roma are responsible for fans INSIDE the stadium and
not OUTSIDE.

I agree to a certain degree.....

But things need to be different now for me I think.

These teams receive 13 million pounds for just reaching the Group stages - add
on a probable 6-8 million for the 6 games played in the knockout stage - and
they pocket more than 20 million or close to this amount.

I think they have a moral responsibility to offer protection to opposing fans from
the plane to the stadium and back again !!

Obviously some fans choose to arrive the day before and leave a day after the
game and thats good - but it's their choice and they have to take care of
themselves if they choose this option.

If I ever went to Rome for a game - I would want to arrive there - go to see the
game and leave again.

I can go to see Rome for a weekend trip any time really. If I feel the need
to 'explore'.

These clubs have a moral obligation to protect their 'guests' at whatever cost !!

OK maybe extra policing and whatever else it takes might cost 300,000 per game
- or 900,000 pounds for the home games - but what is 900,000 pounds out of the
20 million they earn ?

Soon someone is going to die - not maybe - it's inevitable - and then everyone
will say "Oh my God look what happened" but it is too late then !!

UEFA dish out their little 30,000 pounds fines and one game behind closed doors,
lmao........WOW !!

These are just a few of my thoughts on this......

What do you think ?

I say 900,000 pounds is small change - if it stops just one person getting killed.

(Posts on this subject in excess of 20 words more than welcome ;) )
 

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All I am going to say is, why should they(Roman Police?) have a moral responsibility for the oppositions fans from the moment they set foot in Rome until the moment they board their flight back home again? Should people escort them to their hotels? To their dinners and pub crawls? There's always going to be trouble fans from both clubs in these circumstances, I am not sure what can be done...maybe British fans should be banned from going to places like Italy or Turkey? To be fair to Roma, didn;t they escort/rush away fans into an area a few hours prior to kick off? I'm not aware of what happens completely in these away games, I'm hoping others can shed some light.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ajant said:
Should people escort them to their hotels? To their dinners and pub crawls?
No.....

Just like I said when I wrote this.....

Obviously some fans choose to arrive the day before and leave a day after the
game and thats good - but it's their choice and they have to take care of
themselves if they choose this option.
 

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Ignore my point then, 'you were saying' that they should be escorted from plane to stadium. I took that as, 'oh are they not going to do a bit of pub seeing?' either way, why should they?

Furthermore, as we've discovered the violence does not only happen in and around the stadium. Could happen anywhere in the cities.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ajant said:
Ignore my point then, 'you were saying' that they should be escorted from plane to stadium. I took that as, 'oh are they not going to do a bit of pub seeing?' either way, why should they?

Furthermore, as we've discovered the violence does not only happen in and around the stadium. Could happen anywhere in the cities.
I think they have a moral responsibility to offer protection to opposing fans from
the plane to the stadium and back again !!

Obviously some fans choose to arrive the day before and leave a day after the
game and thats good - but it's their choice and they have to take care of
themselves if they choose this option.

If I ever went to Rome for a game - I would want to arrive there - go to see the
game and leave again.

I can go to see Rome for a weekend trip any time really. If I feel the need
to 'explore'.


Ajant said:
either way, why should they?

Furthermore, as we've discovered the violence does not only happen in and
around the stadium. Could happen anywhere in the cities.
I doubt this will ever happen but from a moral point of view - having taken the 20
million it would be nice if they did their best to protect their 'guests'.....

As I said it can only be a escort from the plane to the stadium.....

Then take care of them in the stadium......

Then get them away in their plane again nice and safe.

If people don't accept this offer of protection then thats ok it's their choice.

I would prefer to be safe - and would be happy to have them take care of me.

Why should they ? ...... Because it might prevent someone dying maybe - and 1
saved life is worth any amount of money I'm sure you'll agree.
 

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Why should they take care of themselves if they decide to arrive early for the game? Why do the others have preference? Makes no sense to me. Anyway - there's no responsibilty needed.
 
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90% of every clubs away supporters are "clued up " on the way things are at away grounds, they know the places to expect trouble, they know how to behave in certain areas, they know what to expect if they decide to ignore common sense.
Sadly some "supporters" do the opposit on purpose.

All the main "flash points" are very well known to home fans,away fans, police and media ( why do you think there is so much coverage ? The media waits with reporters and cameras to get the "best shots" ).

The areas could be swamped with police, army etc, costing millions. Stop it in one place it will happen in another. If fans want to fight....they will do. Sometimes it takes place miles, dozens of miles or even hundreds of miles away from the ground.

As for someone being killed......dozens, probably hundreds, already have been. A death changes nothing...never has done and never will do.

I've been to well over 100 aways abroad and if i've wanted to fight i would find it easy, but if i wanted a safe game i've also found that easy.

As for " UEFA dish out their little 30,000 pounds fines and one game behind closed doors,
lmao........WOW "
....That is for whatever takes place INSIDE the ground ( where a very small percentage of trouble actually takes place ). Which IS the responsibility of individual clubs.
Should Manchester United be fined or banned from Europe if United fans and Roma fans had a battle in the centre of London ? or even the centre of Manchester ?
Simple answer ...NO.....because anyone could say they were United supporters just to get United banned etc.

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Discussion Starter #8
SALFORD RED said:
Simple answer ...NO.....because anyone could say they were United supporters just to get United banned etc.

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That's a good point actually....

Am I right to say United were stopped from playing in Old Trafford a few games
once ?

They had to play a long way from Manchester as punishment for troubles ?

Another good point is the police themselves in Rome LAST year :eek:

They were completely incapable of doing the job.......

Nice post Sal.....

I only wrote this because I don't know how all this works and what happens in
these games and I like to learn thats all.......and you seen plenty away game
Sal ;)

I'm not saying my ideas are right or wrong or MUST be implemented.

Just to discuss them.......
 
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Originally Posted by Ajant

Furthermore, as we've discovered the violence does not only happen in and
around the stadium. Could happen anywhere in the cities.

carlyluvsunited said:
I doubt this will ever happen but from a moral point of view - having taken the 20
million it would be nice if they did their best to protect their 'guests'.....

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Carly could i just point out that you are 100% wrong there. The violence happens hundreds of miles away in some cases.

Also the vast majority of travelling support does not travel by convential travel ( ie regular planes, trains etc ), most get there by the cheapest means possible ( a hell of a lot for free may i add) by dozens of different routes crossing many borders on the way.

I know that you've not been to an away game, but your view of going away to support United is a million miles away from the truth, i would say about 1% leave their front doors, gat in a taxi to the airport, fly on a routine flight, taxi/bus to the hotel, same to the ground, watch game and then do the same in reverse.
I know thats the way you would do it and any sensible people would travel but...it's not the way in real life sadly.

Good that you say you dont know and that you want to learn and listen to how things really are. ( shows a lot of sense ). : )



( just like to add....on the news right now is " United fans broke away from the police escort to the ground at charged at the bridge where they were confronted by the "ultras". ). Says it all really.

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Discussion Starter #10
Ah sorry my bad English.....

When I said.....

"I doubt this will ever happen".....

I mean my plans and ideas will never
happen sorry.....:eek:




You are right too - a trip to this game
for me would be to go to the airport....
plane to Rome -
taxi to the ground -
and reverse it, lol.

I'd be too scared if I'm honest to do anything else :eek:

As for these bloody fans breaking away
and making the problems
well if it is them who get stabbed
too bad really isn't it ?

Still wrong but we will forever be trying to make games safe.......

But is there a way to do this ?

Maybe some others on here have some ideas ..........
 

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The fact is if they wanna fight,they will always find a easy way to do that.They will always find some tiny street,some passage or park without cameras or police.They will wait for them in some other city or other country.........that's how the sick brain thinks.

Carly,you have to consider that is very,very hard to organize any game........local or big europian......it's inpossible to predict every shits wich might happen.
You have to consider that ppl who comes to the game,they are not all fans.Some of them are psyhos who are there just for the fight.
And also you have to consider "the police factor".They aren't all robocops-gracious and honest.Some of them maybe,are having very bad day;some maybe,saw last night his wife in bed with somebodie and today he is very mad;and some,maybe just hate you and your club.

EX1:Few weeks ago,whan I was going with my mate to Red Star-Bolton(0:1) match,we were passing by policemans who were standing in the line(maybe 7-8 of them) on the bus station.One of them told us:"You stincky gypsies pus*ies,we are gonna kill you all tonight!!!"I'v just repley him:"Good evening to you too,oficire",and walk away.(synonym for RS fans is "gypsies")

EX2:A couple years ago,I was at Red Star-Roma(3:1)match.And after our third goal in 86 minute, maybe 20-30 policemans was running to us,and started to jump and chant with us.....they were on duty,of course.
They don't give a fu*k for security,they were here to watch football..........what a plonkers........And it was pronounced as a "high risk match"by UEFA,a couple days before.

EX3:Few weeks ago,my mate was in Greece,in Thessaloniki on Aris-Red Star(0:3) match.He came from Belgrade at 11PM in wednesday with 300-400 RS fans.They were going with busses.The match was in thursday.They came to Macedonian and Greek border,next day in early morning.From this border,Thessaloniki is 70-80 miles away,but they came to match on half time!!!!Why!!!????...............This morning,everybodie who speaks serbian was attacked by nn hooligans.Many,many serbs are living and working in Thessaloniki.16 serbs were stabed and many,many beaten,just for this early morning.Nobodie was ever arrested for this crimes,cos whole town had a motiv for attacking serbs:Two big clubs is from Thessaloniki-Aris and PAOK.Red Star fans and Partizan Belgrade fans hates eachother.Partizan fans are in great relationships with PAOK fans,so PAOK fans hates RS fans.......also RS fans are in great relationships with Olympiakos fans who hates Aris!!!!!...............anyway,police were arrest those RS fans on border,cos police were scered,what is going to happen if those 400 RS fans came to town and see present situation..........They were arresting them.....not real criminals!!!!!

Sory if I' v been boring......but my point is that hooligans are not always main problem..........and also,in this situations, there is 1000 other details wich can be a threath for innocents lives.
 

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Like other people have said, just stay smart and know what your doing. Helps if you know the right kind of people, people who been doing it for years, but im sure you could read up.
 
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