[RedForceRising]

While every player in a team is important, I really do feel that the success of this season depends largely on Man Utd signing a tall, strong centre forward and on the continued improvement of Ben Foster, Nani and Anderson.

With the arrival of Dimitar Berbatov, the first of those conditions have been checked.
One down, three to go, as they say.

I'm sure that Nani and Anderson will both get loads of games, just as they did last season and that it will help them to (hopefully) improve by leaps and bounds.

However, I am less optimistic about Ben Foster and am worried that Ferguson won't give him the matches he needs unless there is some injury to Edwin van der Sar.

Now don't get me wrong, Sir Alex is the greatest football manager of all time and I know he knows what he's doing, but every now and again, I get the feeling that he tends to put favour cerain players while shutting others out and I would loathe for Ben Foster to be one of those players.

For the record, I am a HUGE Ben Foster fan and think he can be England's next number 1, but he needs the games to improve.

He was excellent at while on loan at Watford and it is a pity his career was halted by knee ligament injury.

I cast an envious look across Manchester to the blue side of town. Not because of their new owners, but because Joe Hart has been getting heaps of games there since last season and is now their number 1 choice and a regular starter.

At 21, he's 4 years younger than Ben and already playing regularly against Premier League opposition.

While Edwin van der Sar is still a class keeper, he started to show signs of decline last season. All of a sudden, he started punching balls straight to the opposition, at other times he mauled his defneders when coming out for balls and to my horror, found himself flapping at crosses too.

Later in the season his kicking became dodgy and contrary to what some might say, his reflexes aren't what they used to be.

We definitely need a keeper, who is capable of covering for Edwin and in my opinion even take over from Edwin and Ben Foster is the man to do that.

He has assured hands, good height, good leap, good reactions and good positioning - basically all the required attributes og a great keeper.

PIG is alright, but he has made some strange decisions and I suspect his concentrations is less than ideal.

In order for Foster to take over the mantle of United's custodian he will need those games.

Anyway, I hope Fergie gives him as many games as possible, even if VDS is not injured otherwise he might not be prepared, if he's called upon and the big games come rolling in thick and fast.

 

[RedForceRising]

Trying to find errors with a magnifying glass?
Sure Ed is 38 and is starting to see the end of his career. Still, he have retired from International football and that'll give him a few extra years of top football if he can keep himself motivated.

Foster and Kuszczak both are great keepers but it feels like both are more of a back up keeper then a Champion keeper. This gives me shivers - Bosnich (brrrrrrrrrrr), Carroll and Howard-era.

A guy told me Tomasz Kuszczak is a better trained/schooled goalie then what Foster is. Foster has probably better potential but isnt doing the goalie ABC as good as Tomasz. To me its a bit mumbo jumbo to me so I cant really explain more concrete what he meant.

I also think the goalies should earn the play time and not being rotated since a goalies duties is not just to be a shot stopper but also to help and even run the back four. So a rotation in goal is a sign of weakness.

Er...nope.

Do you see Cech, Buffon or Casillas making those errors? Hardly.

Cech commited an error like that in Euro 2008 and it was so glaring, because it was the usually Peter Cech who committed that error.

I saw a lot of Foster at Watford and maybe you say he feels like a back up keeper rather than a champion keeper, because he hasn't played often enough for United. I feel very comfortable when I watch him. Unlike Kuszczak, who makes me very uncomfortable and edgy every time I see him play.

If memory serves me correctly it was against Sporting in the Champions League when he conceded a long-range effort on his near post. I don't think that is doing the goalie ABCs well your friend was talking about.

There are other instances as well that just makes Kuszczak a third in the goalie stakes at OT.

I have a lot of hope for Ben Foster and actually think he can get close to the top class of goalies, which includes Cech, Casillas and Buffon. He might not equal him, but he can get close and that would make he a very, very good keeper. He just needs games.

 

[RedForceRising]

Even James who was the best goalie last season make more mistakes than Edwin

Foster will never break to the first team while Edwin is here
and Edwin is staying another year

so tell 2010 we are safe
then after Edwin Van Der Star retire
we should look up for a new goalie
Viva Ochao

Ochoa?

How about Ustari or Hugo Lloris?

If you peep haven't heard of him yet, check him out!

I saw him in the french ligue 1 last season and he's signed for lyon since. The man is outstanding! More impressive than Foster.

Back to your point - David James is A LOT MORE BUSY than van der Sar!!!!

If VDS was at Portmouth, I'm not sure he would make as many saves as David James, but by the same token, James has a concentration problem, so he might not do as well at Man Utd as he's doing at Portsmouth.


A Man Utd keeper needs to have a lot of concentration. He's usually not called upon often, but when he is, he needs to be reliable and I'm just saying what I and other have observed which is that Edwin has started to become less reliable. It's an issue of concern with me.

I think it's easier to see the decline of an outfield player than a goal keeper, but if you watch carefully it's there to see.

 

[RedForceRising]

I think you a being a bit harsh on Edwin and underestimating him.
You mention his kicking and punching and that he flaps and makes you
feel nervous??? but do any of these actually result in us conceding goals?
Not really I would say. People were moaning last season about his performances
against Barcelona saying he looked nervy and his kicking was shocking.
So bloody what. How many goals did he concede in 180 minutes against a
pretty scary Barca? A big fat 0, thats how many, and yet people are critical of him?

Oh please. He was a huge factor in us winning the CL and the 2 Prem's.
I hope he stays beyond this season as I think he still has what it takes.
Ok he is no Buffon or Cassilas but he is up there with Cech imo, who was touted
as THE best keeper, yet has made some shockers (Euro's especially).
For people to criticise Edwin is astonishing for me.

Sorry I know this thread is about Foster but I needed to say that.

Hmmm....

against Chelsea in the CL final he was the shootout hero, but it was his impersonation of an ice-skating giraffe that allowed fat Frank to score another cheap goal.

I think VDS not conceding against Barcelona had more to do with some colossal performances on the pitch by the outfield players.

One of the greatest gifts a goalkeeper can give his team is waves of confidence from the back and I'm not so sure that has been the case since last season.

Look, I'm not saying he's a bad keeper. He's a good keeper. It's just that I've been witnessing his decline and I'd feel more comfortable if Foster were ready when the times comes and we need to rely on him.

 

[RedForceRising]

If I'm being honest I'm quite worried for Foster atm.

He clearly is very talented and a potential No.1 for United and England, but his injuries do concern me.

He picked up a major injury at the end of the 06/07 season, and I'm pretty sure he's had a similar injury before aswell earlier on in his career.
Now in the last few months he's had a few niggling finger/wrist injuries.

Also I'm concerned that he won't play enough this season. I have a feeling that Fergie will put PIG in as the No.2 as he is always fit and Fergie tends to be loyal to his players so he could take the view that PIG has waited for a chance for a long time.

3 Potential No.1's is too much IMO. We will need to establish who is the No.2 before we think about replacing VDS. Its no good letting Foster share his games in the LC and the FA Cup with PIG as he needs to start to build an understanding with the defence.

I hope Foster is given a chance as I see him as a quality Keeper. I remember Boothroyd saying he thinks Foster will go on to be the best in the world, while Seaman and Shilton have both said he's Englands best Keeper, so clearly he's rated very highly by people who know what they're talking about.

For what its worth Foster is currently playing in the Reserves.

Here's a quick vid on him:

I share the same concerns.

Foster has more natural talent than PIG in my opinion, but you;re right that PIG has had less injury problems.

If that's the case, Fergie should send Foster out on loan to gain first team experience.

There are 6 games in Spetember. Liverpool, Villarreal and Chelsea are the tough ones.

The next three are against Boro in the league cup, Bolton in the prem and Aalborg in the CL.

If Fergie is not gonna give Foster some games, he might as well loan him out, even if it's just for a month.

I'm hoping though that he gets to play against Aalborg and Boro.

By the way, Bolton have a keeper with quite some potential in Al Habsi. Keep an eye on him.

 

[RedForceRising]

Van Der Sar is officially the ucl final Man Of The Match

Yeah? So was Philipp Lahm against Portugal at Euro 2008 and WTF did he do in that game?

 

[RedForceRising]

lol at the 'impersonation of an ice-skating giraffe'

It was abit of a freak goal tbh that took a couple of deflections. VDS cant
really be blamed for that. He ended up being he hero that day so we should be
grateful rather than critical.

I agree that against Barca our defenders were colossal but Vds still played his
part and not many teams can boast that they kept Barca out for 180 minutes.

I believe he gives the players lots of confidence. The defenders play better just
knowing he is there behind them. He hasnt done much to suggest otherwise.

Foster should be ready, its his job to be ready. Thats why he is training everyday
with the coaches and the other keepers. He will get his chance eventually,
but for now Edwin should remain number 1 cos he is the better keeper,
simple as that.

Foster will get a few games in the cups and when/if Vds needs a rest or is injured.

Are you saying you would rather have Foster as our number 1 now?

For me Id rather VDS was number 1 this season and next season and then Foster
can have his chance.

My my Jazzy ..... were you trying to draw out a controversial statement from me?

you, naughty boy, you! *cracks whip*

Well not exactly saying THAT, I'd go as far as to say, Id like to see him play half the games in September and hopefully give Fergie some selection headaches.

You can;t be serious about the "it;s his job to bead" line.

OK, let's not play Rafael or Fabio at all until we really need them when (touch wood) one of starters gets injured. It shouldn;t be a problem, because they are supposed to be ready.

It oesn't work that way. Nothing beats match experience. Anyway, he can do the job, it's just getting used to the defenders infront of him and handling big game pressure.

 

[RedForceRising]

when i said that he was the man of the match, i didn't mean that he was super great
Edwin performance versus chelski was good and he was fantastic versus bercelona
and i don't blame his for being nervous from barcelona
who won't be afraid of the super paced forwards that barca got
(Messi-Eto'o-Henry)


btw Lampard goal ain't VDS's mistake
firstly its Rio-Brown mistake

If VDS had not shuffled his feet and fallen on his ass, it would have been a very routine catch.

Besides the CL matches, there were other instances of VDS flapping at crosses, miskicking and mauling defenders when he came out for crosses.

I'm just saying what's there to be seen. It is in our best interest to make sure we have adequate cover for a goalkeeper who is approaching his 38th birthday.

 

[RedForceRising]

i like this video

Hi abo,

yep that video shows some nice saves of VDS and he still is a good keeper. It's just that he's been making mistakes on a regular basis.

It doesn't give me confidence at all and I can't even imagine what it does to hs team mates. Still glad he's in our setup though.

 

[RedForceRising]

i am convinced foster will claim the no 1 jersey when he gets his chance this season. vds also makes me nervous these days ,he has been a great keeper but his reflex's and agility have declined over the past couple of seasons and if you watch him closely its plain to see he makes more mistakes than save's.
ben foster will take over between the sticks before this season is finished in my opinion and should claim englands jersey when he's utds first choice.

Well, it's not a really a pain to see him, but I see his decline just like you.
As I;ve said, sometimes it's more difficult to see the decline of goalkeepers, because it more obvious with outfield players (more criteria to judge them by).

His reflexes are starting to wane and I'd really just be more comfortable seeing Foster start the games against the easier opponents and once he proves himself take over completely as the number 1.

 

[RedForceRising]

he really has a future at united and he needs a few games to prove it...maybe in the carling and FA cup's he can be played......
he has the ability and i personally dont like kuszczak.....
so really hope foster will be our future no.1

Hey mate,


long time no see. how have you been?

I too am not a fan of Kuszczak and I really have a high hopes for Ben Foster. He just seems more assured and less nervous. He seems calm and has an authoritative aura about him. - i dig.

 

[RedForceRising]

Will the Van der Sar camp please stand up?

It's half-time against Liverpool and the smile on my face has been wiped away by a 38 year-old goal keeper.

I hope I don't come across as exaggerated or over-reacting, but van der Sar's first half display is EXACTLY what several other posters and I have been talking about - he's not his assured self anymore.

Yes, everybody has bad games, but this is not a rare occurrance or a one-off.

This has happened too many times in my eyes.

I think it was Jazz, who has asked how many of his blunder have resulted in a goal - well I can name at least one goal

This is not the type of play that inspires confidence in defenders.

You might say it's early days in the season, but to me this is a carry over from last season and has been going on too long.

I just call it as I see it.

You might say that he has experienced - well all his years of experience and he palms it against Wes Brown ......

What ever happens, you can't unwind the clock - that was shocking and I'm going to take up the offer to name Ben Foster as my numner one choice keeper for the season ahead of van der Sar.

Bring on Ben Foster! ​

 

[RedForceRising]

huh now thats stupid
no one is perfect every body do mistakes so leave Van Der Sar alone

Yes, abo, but he's been making mistakes with more regularity.

It started last season and he showed it again today. I'm not going go and on about it...

I've said what I wanted to say.....

 

[RedForceRising]

This is what I originally said.

But I do think Van Der Sar should be dropped after today. He has been shaky ever since he broke his nose against Tottenham, and he has cost us 2 goals this season already, which could have been 3 today.

And Foster should now be given his chance imho.

Even if Foster isn't fit enough, I would play Tomasz. No matter what you think of him, hes still part of the squad and deserves his chance if, as I think, we need to make a change.

Totally agreed.

Having watched Ben Foster at Watfor, I think I can only remember him conceding a goal to Paul Robinson and maybe keeping the ball too long with his feet when an opponent was lurking.

I can remember him dropping a ball, while trying to catch it like Edwin did or coming out of goal only to palm it to an on-coming defender

Also agreed with Kuszczak, if I many be honest. ABV

Anyone But Van der Sar

 

[RedForceRising]

Does anyone remember the last game we played against pool? I think it was at O.T. V.D.S did not looked assured in that game. His dealing with corners and high balls were poor. I can remember him going for the ball and taking out our own defenders in the process on two occasions. He made two huge errors in this game too. Only difference was we weren't as lucky this time around.

I'm with RFR on this one, time to foster Ben Foster

His been making several errors since last season, he only got away with it because of our defence and that not many capitalized on them through goals, but the deterioration in his play is there to be seen.

I'm really puzzled as to why Fergie continues to play him.

As I saiid before, older players are supposed to use their experience to make up for any deterioration in their game, but Edwin isn't doing so and is becoming a liability.

 

[RedForceRising]

Edwin did make some decent saves, your right.
When he dropped the corner in the first half and Kuyt had the shot, he made
an incredible save, but people only think of the dropped ball.
He made amends and it came to nothing yet people just think of the negative.
The og off Brown was his fault but it was kind of unlucky tbh, the fact that Wes
was just there and that it his his knee.

Oh dear....

It's a goalkeepers job to save the damn ball. It's not hig job to drop it. ..

PLus he was already lying on the floor and bare had raise his hand to make the save. A few inches higher and it would have been a goal.

This i not a one-off it's been happening since last season?

When will it be too many mistakes?

If he does it in another two matches? If he makes big blunders in a nother three matches? four matches? five matches?

He's been making mistakes since last season. On a more regular basis than Cech, Buffon, Casillas...

His mistakes also don't instill confidence do they?

 

[RedForceRising]

First off, I agree last season he could be dodgy at times, but he was also exceptional aswell. Remember Sporting away? Or Roma away?

But regarding the loyalty thing. Above all else I regard loyalty as the most important. VDS is in poor form, but I don't think people should be questioning his place just yet.

Last season Giggs went through a patch of about 20 really, really poor games but people were calling for him to be dropped after a few games while I stood up for him, looking back they were probably right as last season was the worst I've seen from him for a long time.
But then the same thing happened with Carrick and I said no lets stick with him, and he eventually did come good in the end.

So what I'm saying is lets give him more time. He's had 2 bad games this season (out of 4 obviously) so thats not enough to make a big judgement.

I realise that the GK postion is different to the others as errosrs are more costly, but lets give him another few games before we start calling him to be dropped.

But his bad games started last season already. In a few more games he could us even more points. It's his job to do the routine things and make saves.

I don't understand those that say, oh but he made some saves after that, so let's forget that he can't catch and comes out for balls that he can't get.

 

[RedForceRising]

I'm pretty sure I wasn't on that thread

except maybe after he saed the peno against Chelski.

VDS was class, but I've been watching his form deteriorate and for the love of Man Utd, I'd really live to see Foster given a chance ahead of Edwin right now.

 

[RedForceRising]

FOSTER FACES MORE INJURY WOE
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_4164083,00.html



Ben Foster limped out of Manchester United's reserve-team clash with Blackburn at Northwich on Thursday night.

The England international twisted an ankle during the goalless draw and was replaced by Ron-Robert Zieler after 57 minutes.

Foster is now facing another spell on the sidelines, following from a series of previous injury setbacks.

Foster missed most of last season following cruciate ligament surgery.

 

[RedForceRising]

It looked so harmless...no challege or anything on him, it was just the way he
landed. He knew himself though immediatly that there was something wrong as
he threw the ball out of play.

bad, bad news for Ole and Fergie. I'm sure Foster would have started against
Boro in the Carling Cup!

That occured to me too. I guess PIG will play the Carling Cup.
Maybe someone out there really has a voodoo curse on some Man Utd players The injuries don't seem to be stopping and I'm a bit gutted for Ben.

Hopefully he will receover quickly and get some games.