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Does anyone remember the last game we played against pool? I think it was at O.T. V.D.S did not looked assured in that game. His dealing with corners and high balls were poor. I can remember him going for the ball and taking out our own defenders in the process on two occasions. He made two huge errors in this game too. Only difference was we weren't as lucky this time around.

I'm with RFR on this one, time to foster Ben Foster :D
 

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manutd004 said:
I don't think Edwin should be dropped from the no 1 spot until he makes 2 or 3 glaring mistakes. (I'm not one for dropping a player after 1 mistake.)

However, I think this is, (or should be,) his last year, and after this year, Foster should be no 1 and Tomasz no 2. Thats certainly the way we need to go.
This is what I originally said.

But I do think Van Der Sar should be dropped after today. He has been shaky ever since he broke his nose against Tottenham, and he has cost us 2 goals this season already, which could have been 3 today.

And Foster should now be given his chance imho.

Even if Foster isn't fit enough, I would play Tomasz. No matter what you think of him, hes still part of the squad and deserves his chance if, as I think, we need to make a change.
 

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sweet fa said:
i am convinced foster will claim the no 1 jersey when he gets his chance this season. vds also makes me nervous these days ,he has been a great keeper but his reflex's and agility have declined over the past couple of seasons and if you watch him closely its plain to see he makes more mistakes than save's.
ben foster will take over between the sticks before this season is finished in my opinion and should claim englands jersey when he's utds first choice.

please fergie give ben foster his chance or vds will cost utd dearly this season.its plain to see with the clangers that he is making {quite a number last season also} that the guy has lost the plot.
 

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RedMurph7 said:
I'm in total agreement with RedForceRising here. Edwin makes me nervous now.
Even in our first two games i dont think he's been good. He has been a great
servant but coming to the end of last season his form dipped. He was the hero in
the shoot out but if we're been honest he should have saved Cole and Lampards
penos as well. And i remember in one of the last games of the season last year
Fergie told the defence near the end of the game to stop passing the ball back to
him because his kickin was so bad. I don't wanna come on here and start
slagging him off or anything but i think Foster is a top top Keeper and would like
to see him get a lot of games this year.

I knew this was coming!! He just hasn't been the same. Get Foster in goals AS
SOON AS POSSIBLE!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
manutd004 said:
This is what I originally said.

But I do think Van Der Sar should be dropped after today. He has been shaky ever since he broke his nose against Tottenham, and he has cost us 2 goals this season already, which could have been 3 today.

And Foster should now be given his chance imho.

Even if Foster isn't fit enough, I would play Tomasz. No matter what you think of him, hes still part of the squad and deserves his chance if, as I think, we need to make a change.

Totally agreed.

Having watched Ben Foster at Watfor, I think I can only remember him conceding a goal to Paul Robinson and maybe keeping the ball too long with his feet when an opponent was lurking.

I can remember him dropping a ball, while trying to catch it like Edwin did or coming out of goal only to palm it to an on-coming defender :rolleyes:

Also agreed with Kuszczak, if I many be honest. ABV

Anyone But Van der Sar
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
red devil jeff said:
Does anyone remember the last game we played against pool? I think it was at O.T. V.D.S did not looked assured in that game. His dealing with corners and high balls were poor. I can remember him going for the ball and taking out our own defenders in the process on two occasions. He made two huge errors in this game too. Only difference was we weren't as lucky this time around.

I'm with RFR on this one, time to foster Ben Foster :D

His been making several errors since last season, he only got away with it because of our defence and that not many capitalized on them through goals, but the deterioration in his play is there to be seen.

I'm really puzzled as to why Fergie continues to play him.

As I saiid before, older players are supposed to use their experience to make up for any deterioration in their game, but Edwin isn't doing so and is becoming a liability.
 

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If there is anything of concern, it must be his kicking that needs to brush up.

I am wondering if anybody has forgotten his kicking in a full match he played for us last season was actually as bad and shaky as PIG's?! Can't remember which game it was though but should not be too difficult to find out.

Other than that, he looks good to me. :)
 

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Mistakes happen to every keeper. Admittedly Edwin had a very poor game but
when a keeper has a poor game they get punished big time.
He has been through it all before and will come back stronger and more
determind. Just cos he had a shocker doesnt mean he is any less of a keeper.
Edwin number 1.
 

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Jazz 16 said:
Mistakes happen to every keeper. Admittedly Edwin had a very poor game but
when a keeper has a poor game they get punished big time.
He has been through it all before and will come back stronger and more
determind. Just cos he had a shocker doesnt mean he is any less of a keeper.
Edwin number 1.
Agreed. After all VDS has done for us he deserves a little loyalty IMO. Yes he's had a poor start to this season, but he will come good in the end.

Although he played badly yesterday he still managed a couple of brilliant saves, which it seems people have chosen to forget.

If and only If VDS has bad games vs Villareal and Chelski then I will start to think about the 'situation'. Right now my head is 100% behind VDS.
 

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Edwin did make some decent saves, your right.
When he dropped the corner in the first half and Kuyt had the shot, he made
an incredible save, but people only think of the dropped ball.
He made amends and it came to nothing yet people just think of the negative.
The og off Brown was his fault but it was kind of unlucky tbh, the fact that Wes
was just there and that it his his knee.
 

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TheManc said:
Agreed. After all VDS has done for us he deserves a little loyalty IMO. Yes he's had a poor start to this season, but he will come good in the end.

Although he played badly yesterday he still managed a couple of brilliant saves, which it seems people have chosen to forget.

If and only If VDS has bad games vs Villareal and Chelski then I will start to think about the 'situation'. Right now my head is 100% behind VDS.
Let's be perfectly honest and say it as we see it.

In the second half of last season, VDS started making some unexpected blunders and some here in the forum, including myself, did raise a little red flag of concern. Some downhill signs started appearing apparently. Nonetheless, he still had a credible performance for the entire campaign, capped with some penalty heroics. Well and fine.

In this brand new season, yesterday's blunder is the second time after the Super Cup final when he totally misjudged the flight of corner and came off his line when he should not have had. So for the records, it is now 2 blunders out of 4 games and unfortunately both were big games, one a cup final and the other one against our arch rivals, in which every point from our games with the contenders counts heavily in the title race.

Now don't get me wrong. This is not a VDS bashing session or a witch hunting going on. We are all aware of he has done for us all these years and what he is as a keeper. However, at this level, such blunders can't and should not have been made by a world class keeper as VDS, and as we all well aware, the consequences can be dire. Furthermore, we can't deny that there must be some downhill signs creeping up. So there is nothing wrong with fans being concerned at all but something very wrong if fans remain unconcerned.

Having said all these, VDS would most likely remain the keeper for us atm, for despite whatever promise Ben Foster shows, I do also wonder if he is indeed ready to take over as no. 1 due to lack of games under his belt and the lesser experience.

But just don't talk about loyalty here as it is irrelevant. As much as loyalty is an understated value, so do past reputation and pre-conceived ideas of a player an overstated perception. Calling a spade a spade would suffice.
 

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versa said:
Let's be perfectly honest and say it as we see it.

In the second half of last season, VDS started making some unexpected blunders and some here in the forum, including myself, did raise a little red flag of concern. Some downhill signs started appearing apparently. Nonetheless, he still had a credible performance for the entire campaign, capped with some penalty heroics. Well and fine.

In this brand new season, yesterday's blunder is the second time after the Super Cup final when he totally misjudged the flight of corner and came off his line when he should not have had. So for the records, it is now 2 blunders out of 4 games and unfortunately both were big games, one a cup final and the other one against our arch rivals, in which every point from our games with the contenders counts heavily in the title race.

Now don't get me wrong. This is not a VDS bashing session or a witch hunting going on. We are all aware of he has done for us all these years and what he is as a keeper. However, at this level, such blunders can't and should not have been made by a world class keeper as VDS, and as we all well aware, the consequences can be dire. Furthermore, we can't deny that there must be some downhill signs creeping up. So there is nothing wrong with fans being concerned at all but something very wrong if fans remain unconcerned.

Having said all these, VDS would most likely remain the keeper for us atm, for despite whatever promise Ben Foster shows, I do also wonder if he is indeed ready to take over as no. 1 due to lack of games under his belt and the lesser experience.

But just don't talk about loyalty here as it is irrelevant. As much as loyalty is an understated value, so do past reputation and pre-conceived ideas of a player an overstated perception. Calling a spade a spade would suffice.
First off, I agree last season he could be dodgy at times, but he was also exceptional aswell. Remember Sporting away? Or Roma away?

But regarding the loyalty thing. Above all else I regard loyalty as the most important. VDS is in poor form, but I don't think people should be questioning his place just yet.

Last season Giggs went through a patch of about 20 really, really poor games but people were calling for him to be dropped after a few games while I stood up for him, looking back they were probably right as last season was the worst I've seen from him for a long time.
But then the same thing happened with Carrick and I said no lets stick with him, and he eventually did come good in the end.

So what I'm saying is lets give him more time. He's had 2 bad games this season (out of 4 obviously) so thats not enough to make a big judgement.

I realise that the GK postion is different to the others as errosrs are more costly, but lets give him another few games before we start calling him to be dropped.
 

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TheManc said:
First off, I agree last season he could be dodgy at times, but he was also exceptional aswell. Remember Sporting away? Or Roma away?

But regarding the loyalty thing. Above all else I regard loyalty as the most important. VDS is in poor form, but I don't think people should be questioning his place just yet.

Last season Giggs went through a patch of about 20 really, really poor games but people were calling for him to be dropped after a few games while I stood up for him, looking back they were probably right as last season was the worst I've seen from him for a long time.
But then the same thing happened with Carrick and I said no lets stick with him, and he eventually did come good in the end.

So what I'm saying is lets give him more time. He's had 2 bad games this season (out of 4 obviously) so thats not enough to make a big judgement.

I realise that the GK postion is different to the others as errosrs are more costly, but lets give him another few games before we start calling him to be dropped
.

I don't think most of us here are even calling for his head. Just expressing concern and alarm, which should be completely legitimate, after what has been happening since last season. Like I mentioned in the post before this, I don't think we can afford to drop him now simply because the rest of the keepers are probably not ready to take over such a big responsibility.

Still, if it is not VDS but somebody else, I wonder if Fergie will still keep him in the starting lineup...
 

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Jazz 16 said:
^^^very well said TM. Loyalty is extremely important.
Loyalty is extremely important in everything EXCEPT when it comes to fielding players for the club. For if the club is indeed before players, form should prevail over reputation and..... loyalty.
 

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Jazz 16 said:
Edwin did make some decent saves, your right.
When he dropped the corner in the first half and Kuyt had the shot, he made
an incredible save, but people only think of the dropped ball.
He made amends and it came to nothing yet people just think of the negative.
The og off Brown was his fault but it was kind of unlucky tbh, the fact that Wes
was just there and that it his his knee.
But the thing is, if he had caught it the first time, he wouldn't have to make amends. It should have been a simple goalkeeping catch.

Its alright saying hes only had one bad game. But it isn't.

Hes been shaky since he broke his nose at Tottenham, and he seems to be deteriorating as time goes on.

And is everyone also forgetting his mistake against Newcastle, and what should have been an easy catch resulted in a punch, a very poor one at that, which Newcastle then won the corner, from which they scored?
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Jazz 16 said:
Edwin did make some decent saves, your right.
When he dropped the corner in the first half and Kuyt had the shot, he made
an incredible save, but people only think of the dropped ball.
He made amends and it came to nothing yet people just think of the negative.
The og off Brown was his fault but it was kind of unlucky tbh, the fact that Wes
was just there and that it his his knee.

Oh dear....

It's a goalkeepers job to save the damn ball. It's not hig job to drop it. ..

PLus he was already lying on the floor and bare had raise his hand to make the save. A few inches higher and it would have been a goal.

This i not a one-off it's been happening since last season?

When will it be too many mistakes?

If he does it in another two matches? If he makes big blunders in a nother three matches? four matches? five matches?

He's been making mistakes since last season. On a more regular basis than Cech, Buffon, Casillas...

His mistakes also don't instill confidence do they?
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
TheManc said:
First off, I agree last season he could be dodgy at times, but he was also exceptional aswell. Remember Sporting away? Or Roma away?

But regarding the loyalty thing. Above all else I regard loyalty as the most important. VDS is in poor form, but I don't think people should be questioning his place just yet.

Last season Giggs went through a patch of about 20 really, really poor games but people were calling for him to be dropped after a few games while I stood up for him, looking back they were probably right as last season was the worst I've seen from him for a long time.
But then the same thing happened with Carrick and I said no lets stick with him, and he eventually did come good in the end.

So what I'm saying is lets give him more time. He's had 2 bad games this season (out of 4 obviously) so thats not enough to make a big judgement.

I realise that the GK postion is different to the others as errosrs are more costly, but lets give him another few games before we start calling him to be dropped
.
But his bad games started last season already. In a few more games he could us even more points. It's his job to do the routine things and make saves.

I don't understand those that say, oh but he made some saves after that, so let's forget that he can't catch and comes out for balls that he can't get.
 

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RedForceRising said:
But his bad games started last season already. In a few more games he could us even more points. It's his job to do the routine things and make saves.

I don't understand those that say, oh but he made some saves after that, so let's forget that he can't catch and comes out for balls that he can't get.
You put it across stronger and better. :)
 
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