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I have noticed a few threads on fergie's departure in a few years. As far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be a long term plan to groom a manager properly to replace him.

Let me illustrate what I mean. It would seem logical to take some young or middle-aged manager (eg hughes , keane , bruce etc) and have him as assistant to fergie for his last 3-4 years on the understanding he would take over. Fergie could then pass on all his knowledge and experience and philosophy to this person with a view to continuing the dynasty. He could become a kind of fergie mark 2 , a bit like paisley was to shankly.

Ok , so I know that fergie in one sense is irreplacable , BUT there must be some way of passing on the essence of his approach and letting an assistant become trained in the "fergie secret". This sort of thing happens in all walks of life. A master carpenter passes on his secrets to the next generation and so forth. It happens in business too.

So why is fergie not being given total freedom to groom whoever he thinks is right for the job in the right way to ensure continuity? Success is such a delicate thing , have we become complacent?

My fear is that the chance to keep things going will fall between our fingers and someone will come in from the outside and start to take apart what fergie has built. We really really need someone who absolutely understands WHAT it is that has happened at OT since 1986 and WHY the success has flowed.

I personally do not see the signs that this is being thought through properly. The board should go to fergie and ask him how they might best continue his success. Maybe they have already , have I missed something?
 

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I dunno if Fergie really could groom a new manager... in lots of ways that would put too much pressure on the guy taking over... it could get to a situation of who's the boss... when Busby gave up he was still in the background and the players were going over the new managers head (Farrell was it?) straight to Busby...

I think Fergie will be happy to hand a great young team over to a Manager who has his own ideas! it wont be the situation Busby left the team, we have some really promising young players who arent any where near their prime!
 

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Good thought, Mr Perceived-As-Negative-But-Actually-Ultra-Positive. :)

I wonder too. I think he might be clueless on who can emulate him at this moment but may have already some ideas of some potential candidates. And it is most likely that they must be successful and gainfully employed elsewhere currently to be roped in now to 'learn the ropes'.

Btw you always start thought-provoking or contentious threads or post some strong messages. Hope to see more of you here. 155 won't do. :p
 

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You know what at first thought I was in complete agree-ance with you on this. Fergie grooms the right man, who steps into the void already knowing how to run the club and its all gravy... but now I think about it I really don't think it's the best thing.

If Fergie grooms some young and promising manager, saying, 'this is how you do this', 'this is how you do that', what will happen is whoever takes over will just try to copy Ferguson, trying to do things the way he did. Doing this, this will not be managing in their own style and will not be good managers, they have to play to their own strengths. The players would see right through this and would have no respect for whoever that man is as they'd just see them as a 'wannabe' Ferguson.

The only way for the new manager to take us forward will be to come in, confident in their own ideas and stamp their own authority and style on the team.

I think we should simply pick the person we consider to be best equipped to take over and take us forward at the time of Ferguson leaving, rather than trying to mold someone into something that we want them to be.
 

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versa said:
Good thought, Mr Perceived-As-Negative-But-Actually-Ultra-Positive. :)

I wonder too. I think he might be clueless on who can emulate him at this moment but may have already some ideas of some potential candidates. And it is most likely that they must be successful and gainfully employed elsewhere currently to be roped in now to 'learn the ropes'.

Btw you always start thought-provoking or contentious threads or post some strong messages. Hope to see more of you here. 155 won't do. :p

fergusons choice is mourinho ,whenever he talks about him he shows that little bit of excitement ,and utd are going to need a strong minded manager to steer the ship or we will go backwards .
 

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good post des, made me think about it.
perhaps, as said above, he wouldn't want to impose his style on someone else. i wouldn't be surprised if he's far too humble for that. without doubt, teach someone the united way, what the place is about, the history. but is it right for him to be shaping their management style. great managers have to have something that's really unique to them. just trying to copy fergie isn't going to get that. they need someone strong, who will come in and put in place his way of thinking, his way of doing things. he can't compromise on the united way unless it yields exciting performances and results. he would be chastised by the fans, the players and the media and his reign would be short lived. the key really is his man-management. fergie has been the master of this over the years. yes, tactics can play a role, but the amount of work that is done by assistants would mean that it isn't the ultimate. quieroz controlled most of the day to day running and i'm sure mickey phelan does the same.

we have to be braced for a blip, there will never be a seamless transition from where we are. just don't go believing RAWK into thinking we're gonna go 18 years without a league :)
 

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Another good thread Des.
You raise a valid point but I dont think it would ever happen.
Why? Because the next manager of United needs to be someone like
Moyes, O'Neill , Bruce or Mourinho. and could you really see one of them
leaving their current jobs to be number 2 at United for 3/4 years?

No way, it would never happen. All 4 managers I mentioned are going through
exciting times for their clubs. They have built them up to be really good teams.
They wouldnt leave now in any case......but one of them could step into Fergie's
shoes in 2,3,4... years time, but not as assistant. Our next manager will bring
his own ideas and philosophies to the club.

but still good post Des, in an ideal world it would be done like you suggested
but its never going to happen like that.
 

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Aren't you worried Fergie will groom the next manager to use basketball style defensive tactics and instruct the players not to aatack' :rolleyes:

I don't forget so easily, you 'lalang' fan...

A few months ago, you were portraying Fergie in a bad light and now you want him to 'pass on all his knowledge and experience and philosophy to this person with a view to continuing the dynasty. '

When you decide to stop being a fan and start being a supporter, let us know hor?!
 

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Firstly, we need to get away from the notion that an 'old boy' would be an ideal candidate for the biggest job in football. The only ex player we've ever had as manager was Wilf McGuinness and that was hardly a roaring success.

I suspect there's a deliberate policy not to 'groom' a successor, because when the new bloke comes in he's going to want, understandably, to do things his own way with his own staff, it will be him who gets sacked if things don't work out after all?

When the fateful day arrives, the Board will look for the best man at that time, be it O'Neill, Moyes or God forbid Mourinho, and we'll take it from there.
 

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RedForceRising said:
Aren't you worried Fergie will groom the next manager to use basketball style defensive tactics and instruct the players not to aatack' :rolleyes:

I don't forget so easily, you 'lalang' fan...

A few months ago, you were portraying Fergie in a bad light and now you want him to 'pass on all his knowledge and experience and philosophy to this person with a view to continuing the dynasty. '

When you decide to stop being a fan and start being a supporter, let us know hor?!
ouch :D
I had forgotten about that.
cant be right all the time I guess ;)
 

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A few comments:

1 - You simply can't transfer the mind of a genius. I am not making a flippant remark here, I just believe that no matter how long a number two spends with Fergie, he will not become him.

2 - The person that will attempt to replace SAF will need numerous qualities and qualifications. Experience and abundant success as a number one will be paramount. Anyone with these attributes would not be willing to sit as an assistant for a couple of years. And really, would we want anyone who would be willing to do that?

3 - To be a true success, the next manager will need to make the team his own - not a remnant of Fergie's legacy. Player attraction, selection, management, strategy and tactics will need to fit his particular personality and characteristics. Any attempt to mimic Fergie's style in these areas would likely end fatally for the manager, if not for the club.

It's just my opinion tho.... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
but still good post Des, in an ideal world it would be done like you suggested
but its never going to happen like that.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it does in many situations. I don't think we should be trying to create a fergie clone (remember paisley was his own man) but we must do something to keep the continuity going. For example , many of the issues fergie dealt with were not football issues as such ( eg paul mcgrath , robson , drinking club etc) . We don't want a return to that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I just believe that no matter how long a number two spends with Fergie, he will not become him. ---------moondog--------------------

Paisley was his own man but there was still continuity and more success. Can't we do the same ? The comparisons between fergie and shankly are numerous and liverpud somehow managed to continue a relatively seamless transistion into even more success - are we doing the same?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
RESPONSE TO red force rising

You seem to be suffering from selective memory problems. I never said that fergie should go or that he wasn't an incredible manager. I just thought (and still think) that the whole approach of sitting on a lead and inviting the other team on to us was ineffective. Many agreed with me. If I had started a "fergie out" campaign then fair enough - lambast me .

I don't remember you coming up with one single intelligent argument to counter what I was saying at the time. All you seemed to say was that anyone who criticised fergie's tactics must be a fool because the man is not of this world and is beyond any criticism. Such an approach is unthinking and simplistic. If you have nothing intelligent to offer what is an entirely valid tactical debate (which is probably beyond you) then just keep quiet.

If we ever met with fergie (the two of us) he would no doubt praise me for not worshipping him unconditionally as some demi -god and view you as a snivelling creep who thinks he never could make a mistake. He's no doubt considered many of the same issues that I brought up back then but decided that on balance he was right to play it the way he did. I disagree , but i think Fergie would understand why I might disagree , whereas in you all he would see is a "yes" man.
 

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desmondo said:
RESPONSE TO red force rising

You seem to be suffering from selective memory problems. I never said that fergie should go or that he wasn't an incredible manager. I just thought (and still think) that the whole approach of sitting on a lead and inviting the other team on to us was ineffective. Many agreed with me. If I had started a "fergie out" campaign then fair enough - lambast me .

I don't remember you coming up with one single intelligent argument to counter what I was saying at the time. All you seemed to say was that anyone who criticised fergie's tactics must be a fool because the man is not of this world and is beyond any criticism. Such an approach is unthinking and simplistic. If you have nothing intelligent to offer what is an entirely valid tactical debate (which is probably beyond you) then just keep quiet.

If we ever met with fergie (the two of us) he would no doubt praise me for not worshipping him unconditionally as some demi -god and view you as a snivelling creep who thinks he never could make a mistake. He's no doubt considered many of the same issues that I brought up back then but decided that on balance he was right to play it the way he did. I disagree , but i think Fergie would understand why I might disagree , whereas in you all he would see is a "yes" man.

OK,

First of all, you seem to be the one with the selective memory, because while some were not happy with what was going, i can not remember a single person agreeing with you that Sir Alex Ferguson was instructing the team to sit on a lead and employ basketball style tactics.


You were alone in making that accusation. Later on, Sir Alex bemoaned the same things you were complaining about in a clear indicatation that it was not his instructions.

YOU accused Sir Alex of those things and bashed him at a time when the team as a whole weren't playing well. When the team started playing better and with more conviction, you conveniently disappeared.

On the debating front, it is so ridiculous for you to question my footballing knowledge when I have proven it consistenly and have many, many members commenting on my posts.

The same cannot be said for you.

Sarcasm is so lame...and for you to suggest that discussing tactics is beyond me is so poor. Is that all you can come up with.


Any kid can see what is not working for a team, Desmondo.

BUT YOU INSISTED THE TEAM WAS PLAYING POORLY BECAUSE OF SIR ALEX FERGUSON'S INSTRUCTIONS.

YOU WERE ALONE OF THAT OPINION AND NOW YOU MAKE A THREAD SAYING HE SHOULD GROOM HIS SUCCESSOR.

YOU ARE A JOKE OF A FAN WHOSE OPINION SHIFTS WITH THE WIND.

In a previous thread when I made fun of your comments and asked if you had inside knowledge of the going ons at Old Trafford or had a spy cam in the changing room, you countered that teams mostly play according to instruction in clear indication of your assumption that fergie was instructing them to play that way.

Fergie's lamenting of the team's performances were a clear indication that it was not his instruction.

Can you show me my posts where I ask everyone to be a yes man and where I worship Sir Alex as a demi God?


Also, if I ever met you I would put you down for the lousy fan you are, who slams the manager with assumptions he cannot possibly kow to be true.

If you call me a sniveling creep again I will ban you permanently. Fans like you give other real Manchester United supporters a bad reputation.




Also, why would you want someone who is obsessed with fear and cution to mentor our next manager?:

desmondo said:
Yes , momentum is what it's all about. If you watch the treble season video you can see the momentum building at the crunch end of the season. Where's the momentum here? Wouldn't winning at the bridge been the perfect tonic for Barca? Imagine resting players against wigan in prep for moscow? Fergie seems obsessed with caution and fear. But if we focus on what we fear (ie throwing it away) then that's what you end up getting.....Cantona rarely missed a penalty ..why?...because instead of trying "not to miss" he saw it as a fantastic opportunity to score. Does this team really see these games as a fantastic opportunity or are they afraid ?
In some of your posts you seem to pride yourself on saying it as you see it, but you don't just do that, you say things that you can't possibly know. Like insisiting Sir Alex is instructing the team to hold on to slender leads (which he later bemoaned making your statements an utter joke), that he is asking them to employ basketball-type defence (again Fergie later criticized the team for siting back, clearly showing those were NOT his instructions) and that he is obsessed with fear & caution.


Desmondo, I suggest you get your tiny head out of your arse and start thinking properly about what it means to SUPPORT a team.

You really don't realize what a lousy fan you are.

I see through your rhetoric BS and can only see a 'lalang' fan who slams fergie when the team is not doing well (it's a team sport by the way) and criticizes him with accusations you can't possibly know to be true.

When United are not playing well = It's all Fergie's fault. He's obsessed with caution and fear, he is the one telling the team to hang on to slender lead, because he is afraid and cautious. When United are winning = let Fergie mentor the next manager.

Please end yourself.
 

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Ah .... more fun reading.

desmondo said:
Thanks mate , but I'm a nobody. I'm worried that Fergie can't see this. It's natural that as you get older you become more conservative and cautious.

What I also can't understand is why , when you have got a team full of ball players and skill merchants , did we spend most of the first half hoofing the ball like Wimbledon only to have it mopped up by Liverpud. It even had my 10 year old screaming at the telly "pass it don't hoof it!!!!!" .
Yes, yes, the most decorated manager in football history cannot see what's going on in front of him, but desmondo then wants him to mentor our next manager.

I also just remembered that you think Sir Alex Ferguson is scared of Berbatov.

Please ask your 10 year old to kick you in the balls and then please .....


END YOURSELF!!!
 

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whts the guarantee that after the so called grooming of new manager he will be implementing them in the same way as fergie.. change is natural and when it will happen just move on with it mate..
 
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