The Man City problem - time for transfer / salary caps?
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...and then there was Berba, wasn't he briefly before Robinho or am I imagining?piazza said:
*** Edit...found this...
Top 10 Premier League Transfers
1. Robinho: Real Madrid to Manchester City - £32.5m (2008)
2. Dimitar Berbatov: Tottenham to Manchester United - £30.75m (2008)
3. Andriy Shevchenko: AC Milan to Chelsea - £30m (2006)
4. Rio Ferdinand: Leeds to Manchester United - £29.1m (2002)
5. Juan Sebastian Veron: Lazio to Manchester United - £28.1m (2001)
6. Michael Essien: Lyon to Chelsea - £24.43m (2005)
7. Didier Drogba: Marseille to Chelsea - £24m (2004)
8. Wayne Rooney: Everton to Manchester United - £23m initially (2004)
9. Shaun Wright-Phillips: Manchester City to Chelsea - £21m (2005)
10. Fernando Torres: Atletico Madrid to Liverpool - £20m (2007)
So yeah, this summer we briefly topped it again.
***Edited again
Top 10 Overall Transfers
1. Zinedine Zidane: Juventus to Real Madrid - £45.62m (2001)
2. Luis Figo: Barcelona to Real Madrid - £37m (2000)
3. Hernan Crespo: Parma to Lazio - £35.5m (2000)
4. Gianluigi Buffon: Parma to Juventus - £32.6m (2001)
5. Robinho
6. Christian Vieri: Lazio to Inter - £32m (1999)
7. Berbatov
8. Shevchenko
9. Ferdinand
10. Gaizka Mendieta: Valencia to Lazio - £29m (2001)
Doesn't appear that the Italians and Spaniards have problems splashing the cash either at times though as well. Thought it was somewhat interesting that EPL team's don't appear until number 5 on the list.
Transfer cap
Having seen recent events with City do we think that after a season or 2 will the club super powers get together and ask for a transfer cap .
I believe Bayern Munich were unhappy with the Chelsea situation a few season ago so what do we think they would make of the City situation.
I think within the next 2 years Platini will insist on a cap of around 40 million a season which would mean any add ons and money related to games played.
In my opinion if the game is to be rescued from these Billion pound sultans it will need to be changed .
In my opinion the Kaka saga may work against City as I dont think Fifa or Uefa will be happy with the manner that City are trying to force through the transfer even though the player doesnt want to go there.
Milan on the other hand will take the cash as 100 million plus is impossible to reject but it will kill the game any world class player is going to be taken off clubs even if they dont want to play for them.
Is a cap the way forward or do we think the money at City a good thing ?
Having seen recent events with City do we think that after a season or 2 will the club super powers get together and ask for a transfer cap .
I believe Bayern Munich were unhappy with the Chelsea situation a few season ago so what do we think they would make of the City situation.
I think within the next 2 years Platini will insist on a cap of around 40 million a season which would mean any add ons and money related to games played.
In my opinion if the game is to be rescued from these Billion pound sultans it will need to be changed .
In my opinion the Kaka saga may work against City as I dont think Fifa or Uefa will be happy with the manner that City are trying to force through the transfer even though the player doesnt want to go there.
Milan on the other hand will take the cash as 100 million plus is impossible to reject but it will kill the game any world class player is going to be taken off clubs even if they dont want to play for them.
Is a cap the way forward or do we think the money at City a good thing ?
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Transcript of Phone Call Between City & Kaka
I have come across dialogue between Man City and AC Milan superstar Kaka. Unfortunately I only have the script from the City end but I think it is clear for all as to the total content:
"Hello, is that Kaka? How do you fancy becoming the supply line to Craig Bellamy and Darius Vassell this winter?
"No, your fellow countryman doesn't like the cold and will be out until mid April - but you will play alongside Stephen Ireland"
"No, Kaka, Ireland is a person not a country"
"yes, I fully appreciate that he is not Ronaldinho, Pirlo or even Beckham but many fans have him in their fantasy football"
"I know you are currently the richest man in Italy but we can double it!"
"erm, well, we have had a bit of a slide recently and we are currently 15th"
"erm, out of 20...... but Mark Hughes once won the double for our neighbours"
"Hughes"
"Ex Blackburn boss"
"Blackburn, Blackburn Rovers"
"No, Blackburn......Black.....Burn"
"HUGHES man, HUGHES!!!"
"He once scored a good goal against Spain"
"No, thats Gerry Armstrong..... anyway, are you coming or not?"
"Usually about two thirds full but if we play a big team its really rocks"
"yes I know, but we dont even have a car park cos all the fans walk to the ground they are so local"
"Relevance? well, I suppose its all they have to brag about whether its true or not"
"Only the one to be fair but its called 'blue moon' you will love it"
"Blue"
"yes, definitely blue, always has been"
"No, no, no, they are in Trafford"
"yes they are, steeped in it in fact but what good is history to you my ambitious friend?"
"erm, 1976 I think"
"it was the er, the er League cup if memory serves me right"
"Well, the plan was to get in the top 4 this season and then....."
"yes, I realise that but....."
"Aston Villa? Whats it got to do with them?"
"Yes, I know but we have been down this history route already"
"How the heck does a Brazilian playing in Italy know about Nottingham Forest?"
"Yes, yes, and Leeds United also made a final but you are missing my point, this is all about the future"
"Give me strength......HUGHES!!!!"
"yes I know he did and he was a legend there but he is a changed man"
"forget them, they are falling apart"
"But all those trophies were won last year! They have won nothing in 2009"
"I have told you.... 1976!!!!"
"How the heck does a Brazilian playing in Italy know that Virginia Wade has won Wimbledon since then?"
"Yes she probably is in her 60's"
"I dont know, probably about 10 league titles, 2 european cups and countless domestic cups what has that got to do with it?"
"76,000 why?"
"yes, every game, even minor cups I suppose, but where is this getting us?"
"Yes, the league cup is considered a minor cup over here why?"
"I know, I know, I know, ok perhaps they won the FA Cup in 1970 or something does it really matter?"
"look, Kaka, we will treble whatever you are on now, buy you a mansion in Alderley Edge and give you a helicopter for your front lawn....are you joining us?"
"NO!, its owned by the council - what has the ground got to do with anything"
"well, officially its the city of manchester stadium but most people call it Eastlands"
"EAST!, not Waste"
"You will be adored there"
"No, not there, here I meant"
"No, thats Old Trafford, I meant adored here at Waste....erm, Eastlands"
"Anderson??? what does he know?"
"Ok I hear what you say, but other than Pride, Ambition, Achievement, History, Passion and a large car park - what can they offer you?"
"what do you mean no credit left in your phone.....I phoned you"
"Hello, Mr Kaka,...... Mr Kaka are you there?............................YOU RED B*ST*RD!!!!!"
I have come across dialogue between Man City and AC Milan superstar Kaka. Unfortunately I only have the script from the City end but I think it is clear for all as to the total content:
"Hello, is that Kaka? How do you fancy becoming the supply line to Craig Bellamy and Darius Vassell this winter?
"No, your fellow countryman doesn't like the cold and will be out until mid April - but you will play alongside Stephen Ireland"
"No, Kaka, Ireland is a person not a country"
"yes, I fully appreciate that he is not Ronaldinho, Pirlo or even Beckham but many fans have him in their fantasy football"
"I know you are currently the richest man in Italy but we can double it!"
"erm, well, we have had a bit of a slide recently and we are currently 15th"
"erm, out of 20...... but Mark Hughes once won the double for our neighbours"
"Hughes"
"Ex Blackburn boss"
"Blackburn, Blackburn Rovers"
"No, Blackburn......Black.....Burn"
"HUGHES man, HUGHES!!!"
"He once scored a good goal against Spain"
"No, thats Gerry Armstrong..... anyway, are you coming or not?"
"Usually about two thirds full but if we play a big team its really rocks"
"yes I know, but we dont even have a car park cos all the fans walk to the ground they are so local"
"Relevance? well, I suppose its all they have to brag about whether its true or not"
"Only the one to be fair but its called 'blue moon' you will love it"
"Blue"
"yes, definitely blue, always has been"
"No, no, no, they are in Trafford"
"yes they are, steeped in it in fact but what good is history to you my ambitious friend?"
"erm, 1976 I think"
"it was the er, the er League cup if memory serves me right"
"Well, the plan was to get in the top 4 this season and then....."
"yes, I realise that but....."
"Aston Villa? Whats it got to do with them?"
"Yes, I know but we have been down this history route already"
"How the heck does a Brazilian playing in Italy know about Nottingham Forest?"
"Yes, yes, and Leeds United also made a final but you are missing my point, this is all about the future"
"Give me strength......HUGHES!!!!"
"yes I know he did and he was a legend there but he is a changed man"
"forget them, they are falling apart"
"But all those trophies were won last year! They have won nothing in 2009"
"I have told you.... 1976!!!!"
"How the heck does a Brazilian playing in Italy know that Virginia Wade has won Wimbledon since then?"
"Yes she probably is in her 60's"
"I dont know, probably about 10 league titles, 2 european cups and countless domestic cups what has that got to do with it?"
"76,000 why?"
"yes, every game, even minor cups I suppose, but where is this getting us?"
"Yes, the league cup is considered a minor cup over here why?"
"I know, I know, I know, ok perhaps they won the FA Cup in 1970 or something does it really matter?"
"look, Kaka, we will treble whatever you are on now, buy you a mansion in Alderley Edge and give you a helicopter for your front lawn....are you joining us?"
"NO!, its owned by the council - what has the ground got to do with anything"
"well, officially its the city of manchester stadium but most people call it Eastlands"
"EAST!, not Waste"
"You will be adored there"
"No, not there, here I meant"
"No, thats Old Trafford, I meant adored here at Waste....erm, Eastlands"
"Anderson??? what does he know?"
"Ok I hear what you say, but other than Pride, Ambition, Achievement, History, Passion and a large car park - what can they offer you?"
"what do you mean no credit left in your phone.....I phoned you"
"Hello, Mr Kaka,...... Mr Kaka are you there?............................YOU RED B*ST*RD!!!!!"
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^^^^^^^^^^pmsl.....
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no salary caps please, let each team take care of what they do financially, thats what financial advisors and all those personnel are for. Having a salary cap imo would wreck the essence of being a big club. Imagine a world where Utd would be at the same financial level as a team like stoke or west brom, I would hate to see that happen.
Great stuff tb. This line in particular reminds me of the scene in "Life of Brian" when the leader of the People's Front of Judea (John Cleese) is trying to justify an attack on the Roman Empire:Toybos said:
"...Alright, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Brought peace?
Oh Peace? Shutup!"
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1,576 Posts
A salary cap would be - as already stated - highly hypocritical. How about when Chelsea were spending a lot? Or us? No team called for a salary cap/transfer limit before. It's only now that the largest teams can be outbid is this cry for a cap happening. Let City spend however much they want. We can cry out about how ridiculous it is - and I agree with that - but to limit what they can do seems unjust.
As the saying goes: You can't buy class.
As the saying goes: You can't buy class.
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11,456 Posts
Grif SA said:
It's not that simple.
Over the years there has been an incremental increase in the spending powers of big clubs. As a result the rest has had to follow suit.
Clubs like Leeds, Eintracht Frankfurt, Dortmund ended up over-extending themselves.
In Spain Valencia, Sevilla and other are in a lot of debt. So are we by the way. So Man City is coming in at a vary precarious time and it is not an incremental increase.
This footballing behemoth, is willing to buy a single player for an overall value of three times the Zinedine Zidane transfer and offer a singe player 2-3 times the current highest salaries being payed in the world.
I know it might sound hypocritical coming from a man united fan, but you have to consider what' going on at the other clubs.
This might well be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
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You mean it might be hypocritical, not hypothetical. This is real.
Okay, granted that this situation is taking a turn for the worse. People are losing jobs, the economy is slowing down, etc, and footballers are asking for more money, and clubs are paying more money for their rights. All that is what's happening. But say FIFA and UEFA start thinking about salary caps? Where do you begin? Lets work our way up. Look at the lower leagues. Do they have the same salary caps as the higher leagues? Wouldn't it be unfair for a team with a relatively large financial backing in the smaller leagues to just buy good players? Look at Hoffenheim in Germany: Had they not invested in their youth system and bought tons of players, would that have done any good? Perhaps in the short term, but in the overall arc? Then lets go to the top. What should FIFA/UEFA say the caps should be? Does it differ from Germany to Italy to Spain to France to England? And then within the separate countries, what is the salary cap? Is it a £2m/week thing? Or is it £100,000/player/week max type? Or a stagnated limit, like two players with £150k, 3 other with £100k, 8 with £80k, etc... Then, how high should the salary cap be? Lower the cap to make the league have more parity or raise the bar to maintain the status quo? And how would they be implemented, because people have their contracts, and if you impose a salary cap, then some will surely be over and will have to renegotiate. What if they decide not to, the club is legally obligated to pay them, and then they'll be in trouble with FIFA/UEFA.
As for clubs being in debt and needing to fix it, yes, that is true too. It just so happens that sometimes people have more money than common sense... Hopefully people will start to get more common sense though, in particular by looking closely at two clubs in Europe.
The first club, Manchester United F.C.. Granted, RFR, we are in debt. But why is that? It's not because we spent tonnes of money on players. It's not because we did anything wrong, it's because of our owner. Look at Sir Alex' policy. He'll buy talent when necessary, most of the time young and molding them to become better players. Fergie's Fledglings are a perfect example. Plus, the club gave him time to execute his plan, and look at the results. Lo and behold, by sticking with the right person rather than look for results immediately, we eventually achieved what we set out to achieve. It's a lesson almost every club today could learn. And this brings me to Hoffenheim.
Their owner, a billionaire co-founder of SAP, has been investing in the club since the early-mid 1990s. He invested in the youth academy, teaching their players to be technical and etc... He's stuck with them and because of his plan, they're leading the Bundesliga! The problem now-a-days is that people have less patience than ever before. They want results and success now, or else.
After my diatribe, I'm now leaning towards a salary cap. True enough it's been called socialist in nature, but I believe people should look beyond that for the moment. Despite all the problems I've mentioned, it might just help to knock some common sense into clubs now-a-days. Force them to look at the blueprints laid out by Hoffenheim and United about how to invest and run a club. The thing about City - or rather their owners - that's encouraging is the fact that there are extremely few billionaires out there who have as much money to throw away as them. Having said that, they should still have some common sense. Enforced or not.
Okay, granted that this situation is taking a turn for the worse. People are losing jobs, the economy is slowing down, etc, and footballers are asking for more money, and clubs are paying more money for their rights. All that is what's happening. But say FIFA and UEFA start thinking about salary caps? Where do you begin? Lets work our way up. Look at the lower leagues. Do they have the same salary caps as the higher leagues? Wouldn't it be unfair for a team with a relatively large financial backing in the smaller leagues to just buy good players? Look at Hoffenheim in Germany: Had they not invested in their youth system and bought tons of players, would that have done any good? Perhaps in the short term, but in the overall arc? Then lets go to the top. What should FIFA/UEFA say the caps should be? Does it differ from Germany to Italy to Spain to France to England? And then within the separate countries, what is the salary cap? Is it a £2m/week thing? Or is it £100,000/player/week max type? Or a stagnated limit, like two players with £150k, 3 other with £100k, 8 with £80k, etc... Then, how high should the salary cap be? Lower the cap to make the league have more parity or raise the bar to maintain the status quo? And how would they be implemented, because people have their contracts, and if you impose a salary cap, then some will surely be over and will have to renegotiate. What if they decide not to, the club is legally obligated to pay them, and then they'll be in trouble with FIFA/UEFA.
As for clubs being in debt and needing to fix it, yes, that is true too. It just so happens that sometimes people have more money than common sense... Hopefully people will start to get more common sense though, in particular by looking closely at two clubs in Europe.
The first club, Manchester United F.C.. Granted, RFR, we are in debt. But why is that? It's not because we spent tonnes of money on players. It's not because we did anything wrong, it's because of our owner. Look at Sir Alex' policy. He'll buy talent when necessary, most of the time young and molding them to become better players. Fergie's Fledglings are a perfect example. Plus, the club gave him time to execute his plan, and look at the results. Lo and behold, by sticking with the right person rather than look for results immediately, we eventually achieved what we set out to achieve. It's a lesson almost every club today could learn. And this brings me to Hoffenheim.
Their owner, a billionaire co-founder of SAP, has been investing in the club since the early-mid 1990s. He invested in the youth academy, teaching their players to be technical and etc... He's stuck with them and because of his plan, they're leading the Bundesliga! The problem now-a-days is that people have less patience than ever before. They want results and success now, or else.
After my diatribe, I'm now leaning towards a salary cap. True enough it's been called socialist in nature, but I believe people should look beyond that for the moment. Despite all the problems I've mentioned, it might just help to knock some common sense into clubs now-a-days. Force them to look at the blueprints laid out by Hoffenheim and United about how to invest and run a club. The thing about City - or rather their owners - that's encouraging is the fact that there are extremely few billionaires out there who have as much money to throw away as them. Having said that, they should still have some common sense. Enforced or not.
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