Manchester United Talk banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
23,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was surprised that day when Fergie himself admitted he is not very sure where to play Rooney. And it seems the same for Capello.

Thought the consensus is that we should play him off a main striker.

And think K'F's interesting theory that Rooney (and Tevez) could be tired from the incessant tracking back seems to have found some support in this article too. Intriguing.

What do you think?



The Independent
By Sam Wallace, Football Correspondent, Wednesday, 28 May 2008


Capello goes back to basics in attempt to crack Rooney riddle

Wayne Rooney should be every manager's ideal player and most of those who find themselves in charge of him lavish the striker with praise. There is, as Fabio Capello is only just beginning to discover, one major sticking point with having what we are led to believe is the greatest talent of a generation: where do you play him?

All that Capello was prepared to disclose ahead of tonight's friendly against the United States at Wembley, other than John Terry's captaincy, was that he would be deploying Rooney as "a second striker". Among other things Capello said it meant Rooney would be "more fresh" than usual when he found himself in goalscoring situations and, like most new tactical ideas on the eve of an England friendly, it all made perfect sense. The only sticking point was that when it comes to getting the best from Rooney in an England shirt, Capello has changed his mind every single game.

Rooney has been paired with Jermain Defoe more often than any other striker in training over the past few days; Dean Ashton is evidently in the squad to try him with the Manchester United striker and, as usual, Peter Crouch will probably be required to prove he can play with Rooney all over again. Whoever Capello pairs with the striker, however, it will be his third attempt to crack the Rooney enigma in three games.

In his first game in charge against Switzerland in February, Rooney played alone in attack in a 4-1-4-1 formation to little effect. Shortly after that match, the word from the Capello camp was that the new England manager had decided his 22-year-old prodigy was not suited to the lone striker role. It was a conclusion that anyone who watched him gradually lose his rag in the role before his red card against Portugal in the 2006 World Cup quarter-finals might also have drawn.
Against France in March, Rooney was linked with Steven Gerrard in Paris – the Liverpool captain placed as the second striker in that attempt to replicate his partnership with Fernando Torres at Liverpool. The 4-2-3-1 formation was in vogue then thanks to Liverpool's success at that time but that too now seems to have been junked. So after two games of experimentation, Capello has admitted Rooney is better off as part of a pairing which – let's be honest – is that old favourite 4-4-2. It has not taken Capello long to realise it is pointless trying to convert the English to anything more exotic.

The England manager is entitled to experiment, but it does beg the question of whether Rooney is destined to be passed around this team like Gerrard – a spare chair that must be accommodated somehow. "I've said to him [Rooney] he has to work, that he's too generous, trying to do too much," Capello said, speaking English for the first time in a press conference. "He needs to focus to play in the best position for him."

Rooney will agree. He said before the Champions League final that sometimes he found his legs "a bit heavy" from all the tracking back required of him when he plays wide for United. The game in Moscow should have been his crowning moment but his substitution, and his solid but unspectacular contribution, meant he was more at the margins than usual. In the hole, behind a striker who leads the line, Rooney should be able to demonstrate the full range of his ability.

"He needs to be more selfish," Capello said. "Otherwise he's tired, not fresh." The England manager also said that he had seen Rooney play in a 4-4-2 formation with Carlos Tevez at United and, while it does not do to contradict him on tactical matters, it was hard to remember many occasions. As Sir Alex Ferguson said in most of his post-Moscow reflections, he has been amazed at Rooney's willingness to play out of position for the team, on the wing more often than not.

With Rooney paired with a strike partner in attack, that should free Gerrard for a role back in the centre of midfield. Capello did say that Frank Lampard would play tonight but it will be interesting to see if he starts ahead of Gareth Barry who is likely to captain England against Trinidad and Tobago on Sunday. As usual the players are not being told the team until this afternoon.

As Rooney prepared to be reinvented once again by an England manager his agent Paul Stretford's legal battle with the FA was coming to an end according to those close to it. The roots of that story begin in October 2004, around the time that Rooney, having set Euro 2004 alight before his injury, was still regarded as a traditional goalscorer at international level. Nevertheless, it is not just experimentation that Capello is interested in tonight.

"I always prefer a victory," he replied instinctively, having been asked whether a good performance would be more valuable to him tonight. "After a victory, it's easy to find a good performance," he said. "Psychologically, it [a win] is very important. I hope there'll be a lot of fans there and I'll be very happy."

For a man who does not give the impression that he considers displays of emotion to be a critical part of a footballer's job, Capello was surprisingly sympathetic towards Terry and his tears last Wednesday in Moscow. He even admitted that he shed tears himself once after a football match, albeit as long ago as 1979, shortly after he played his last game as a professional. "I was saying goodbye to Milan," he said. "A good memory.

"[Roberto] Baggio, [Franco] Baresi... these are big players who missed [penalties]," Capello said. "If you shoot a penalty, it's always possible not to score. If you stay on the bench and don't take one, it's easier not to make a mistake. I think all the players and the manager are strong when they play during the games, but the emotion is always there."

He was understanding, although he might feel less generous when England players start missing penalties in shoot-outs on his watch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,303 Posts
i reckon rooney is the perfect player to play behind 2 strikers,if this does not suite utds style of play then stick him in midfield because its plain to see now that he is not a complete striker he lacks the killer instinct of a class goalscorer.but the amount that rooney can create is great ,so let him feed the strikers and lets remember rooneys at his most deadliest about 25 yards from goal with a sight at the target.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,099 Posts
no, i say the 2nd striker role is the best for him. give him a free role too. this way he can pop out anyway to create. further more, next season, manucho would be there as a target man, meaning rooney can get the ball more from the knock downs provided by manucho.

rooney does not need to collect the ball from deep this way, meaning he wont have to track back more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,273 Posts
rooney to be converted into an attacking midfield player?!!? just like scholes?

since it is versa's riddle, wild shot can be accepted:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Rooney is a second striker. All the second striker don't score a lot.
the only thing is that he cannot play as alone forward.
He scored 19 goals and made a lot of assists
guys where is the problem?????
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,926 Posts
Simple, play him off a front man.

With the likes of Tevez at United, there's always switching between the front
players and Rooney often finds himself alone up front or on a wing.

With England though, he's the perfect player to have playing off Owen or Crouch
because they are both target man so Wazza can occupy the free"hole" and do
what he does so well, that being linking the midfield to the attack and pushing on
himself.

I'm desperate to see him play every game in that role. When Rooney's name isn't
on the team sheet before the game, injuries aside, I'm absolutely gutted and it
takes something away from the game for me.

He's an inspiration to the team and the crowd, but how can he inspire us f he is
played in positions to accommodate other players like Ronaldo?

Ferguson should be moulding the team around Wayne, but I think he's trying to
do it around Ronnie at the moment. Fair enough, Ronnie's got awesome abilities,
but keep him on the wings. Running at defenders.

If we were to set out a team right now, this would be mine, and the positions
were set and there wasn't any switching between the players besides the two
wingers for example.

-----------------------------------Van Der Sar-----------------------------------
-
---Brown--------------Ferdinand----------------Vidic-----------------Evra---
-
---Hargreaves-----------Scholes-------------Carrick------------Ronaldo---
-
--------------------------------Rooney-------------------------------------------
-
------------------------------------------Tevez-----------------------------------


Also, don't you think we've all seen the very best of Wayne when he played with
Ruud up front and Louis for a brief while?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,242 Posts
agree with most of the comments "in the hole" between the centre forward and midfield.
rooney is special player and should be told to" just go and play ", and let his instinct do the rest.
 

·
Least popular Moderator
Joined
·
24,837 Posts
defiantely in the hole, but i think Rooney could cause us a potential problem.

what are we gonna go in Europe next year? we will have a new striker to 'lead the line' so you would think they play up top, then obviously ronaldo would play on one of the wings/wide attacker, so would rooney or tevez play on the other wing? We all know that rooney is average there.

I can see this going the same way with the Gerrard - liverpool situation.
his best position is CM, but Rafa prefers tow DM'S there so he pushes Gerrard further forward.

to be honest, i think Tevez is better at playing at LW/RW than Rooney, but we can't expect Rooney not to play can we?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
I seriously think in the coming years we coulf see ando and Rooney in midfield with a big target striker with tevez just off him


Nani -- Rooney -- Ando -- ???
-------Tevez
---------------Big Striker

or maybe a front 3 like this

Tevez -- Rooney
----Big Striker

or

----Rooney
Tevez -- Big Striker

But I do see his future being further back
 

·
Least popular Moderator
Joined
·
24,837 Posts
abojodeh said:
i guess? striker! :confused:
no what i mean is this:

in europe we play:


-----------------ST----------------
LW----------------------------RW
--------CM----CM---CM----------

and rooney has been playing up top most of the time, but as we will be buying an out and out striker he will be playing up top on his own, so will rooney play LW? or RW? because i think tevez is better on the wings than rooney in europe.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
503 Posts
Rooney is a Second Striker. He may play up the field, but he drops so far back he is like an attacking mid. His primary job is not to score goals. He is there to link up play and work hard for the team etc etc.. Fergie has said that Rooney's lack of goals is not a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
think rooney is somewhat similar to how scholes plays. scholes played a striker's role behind another or should i say attacking midfield for utd and i believe rooney will excel if he played there, providing killer passes and a goal threat as well. maybe we won't have any trouble replacing scholes as we might already possess a hell of a talent in rooney in that position.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
rooney is too good too provoked defence of other team they always fear if he shoot we should put him behind a striker then he gonna score more goals as he create a lot of occassions for other man utd player to score
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
23,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
High time that Rooney rediscovered his selfish side

guardian


Wayne Rooney has sacrificed his sublime gifts for diligence and needs the old magic back, particularly for England

Wayne Rooney's talent is even more of a problem for him than it is for defenders. A lesser footballer would have exulted in a month that has brought him another Premier League title and his first winner's medal in the Champions League. For the third season in a row, too, he has reached or exceeded the 20-goal mark in his total with club and country.

As much as anyone, however, he will feel that there is more to be achieved. Rooney was still 16 when he recorded his first Premier League goal, a winner for Everton against Arsenal that ought to have had a "Whoosh!" caption, so much did it belong in a comic book. His glorious individuality was incorrigible then. At 18 he had a hat-trick on his debut for Manchester United, virtually shoving team-mates out of the way so that he could complete it with a free-kick against Fenerbahce in his first Champions League fixture.

Nowadays, England need a touch of that boisterous virtuosity. The Old Trafford club would have no objection to it either, but with Cristiano Ronaldo on the books the dependence on Rooney is not so great. Fabio Capello has started the last two internationals with him as a lone striker, but now proposes to employ Rooney behind an orthodox centre-forward.

It looks likely that West Ham's Dean Ashton will be that target man against the United States this evening, earning a first cap that would have been his already had his ankle not been broken in a training-session collision with Shaun Wright-Phillips before the friendly against Greece in August 2006. England seek someone who will bring out the best in Rooney by battling the centre-halves and releasing him to shape the play and show his inventiveness.

"I want him to play with his face to goal rather than his back to goal," Capello said. "You need one player more advanced and then the other can move around him." His Old Trafford manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, feels that the self-sacrificing streak now runs too deep in Rooney.

Capello reported that his diagnosis is the same. "I've said to him he's too generous, trying to do too much," the Italian stated. "He needs to focus, to play in the best position for him. He needs to be more selfish. Otherwise he's tired, not fresh. It's important to be fresh near the goal.

"Rooney's potential is very, very big. He can move better in the future, yes. He said he knew he had to score more goals and stay more in front of goal. He needs experience, also. He's won a lot, but not enough. I saw him [at Euro 2004] in Portugal and he played very well. He has to play like he did then."

Some of Rooney's delight in football has got lost. Lacking a conventional striker when Louis Saha is injured, Ferguson is in the habit of fielding Rooney there. He did so again in Moscow last week, when, for the most part, he was merely conscientious. He was substituted well before the penalty shoot-out that decided the Champions League final.

It has been stirring to see how hard he works when a shabbier character would have succumbed to sulking envy of Ronaldo, but he need not be reduced to mere diligence indefinitely. While the Englishman does not have a change of pace, he could still disrupt defences through imagination and technique if deployed in a different post. Capello has until now put Rooney on the flanks after opening with him going through the middle.

Life has more or less been like that at Old Trafford, too, and the player's prospects of re-emerging as a playmaker with a touch of the predator about him will depend on Ferguson locating a conventional striker in the transfer market. Tonight Capello is urging an ebullience that might be to Rooney's taste so long as he and the others are not jaded.

"I hope we'll see the things that I ask of the players," said the manager. "More intensity. More speed, more pressing and more going forward. Possibly more of an English way of playing." The squad does not contain all that many quick players, but there can be drive from Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard, if a suitable post is located for the latter.

David Bentley and David Beckham, presumably with one replacing the other, can confirm the quality of their service from the wings. A long stretch of practice sessions has more worth for Capello than this friendly or Sunday's with Trinidad & Tobago in Port of Spain, but it would do no harm to please the 70,000 or more fans who will come to Wembley.
 

·
Pz
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
Rooney is a striker in my opinion, whether that is second or first does not make much difference in my opinion with the way united play the system. In a more rigid system, he is a second striker but i think we would not be criticising rooneys season as much or where he had played if he took half his chances. At united even when he plays up front, he roams around everywhere and has many chances. He is a better finisher than he has shown this season but overall his season has been good at best this season. In my opinion he is second striker because he is small but has good balance...and movement and is strong but at united there really is no such thing as a lone striker the way we play.

I think rooney has just had a tough year with injuries and trying to get back into the groove is not easy when you are continously having to stop to heal. Next season im sure he will be better. Second striker or first striker, he has had enough chances to have had 25 goals this season.

pz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,467 Posts
Rooney is incredible in the hole but he can also play as the main striker as well,
but with strict instructions to not come chasing back to our own penalty area.
He has shown great poachers instincts over the years so if he was fresh
and his confidence was up, he would start banging them in.
He takes it upon himself to do too much. They need to play him in one or the
other position, though I think he could do a job in either.
Saying that, if we bought someone like Berbatov, Eto'o or Huntelaar then they
would have to play ahead of Rooney, and leave the 'hole' to Rooney.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
The way i discribe the position best for him is a type of sweeper striker position,just behind the main striker but also commited to defend and create turn overs in midfield.
 

·
Least popular Moderator
Joined
·
24,837 Posts
Jazz 16 said:
if we bought someone like Berbatov, Eto'o or Huntelaar then they
would have to play ahead of Rooney, and leave the 'hole' to Rooney.
what would we do in the games where we play 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 though?, i think that is a better question. everyone knows he is best 'in the hole', but when we play in Europe we don't usually play and 'in the hole' type player, and if we brought a new striker you would think he would play the striker role, so would Rooney play on the left? because IMO Tevez is much better than rooney in the LW position.

It will be interesting to see Fergie's thinking in Europe, unless of course he intends to play 4-4-2 in Europe from now on likehe did vs Barca and for 60 mins vs Chelsea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
TheManc said:
what would we do in the games where we play 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 though?, i think that is a better question. everyone knows he is best 'in the hole', but when we play in Europe we don't usually play and 'in the hole' type player, and if we brought a new striker you would think he would play the striker role, so would Rooney play on the left? because IMO Tevez is much better than rooney in the LW position.

It will be interesting to see Fergie's thinking in Europe, unless of course he intends to play 4-4-2 in Europe from now on likehe did vs Barca and for 60 mins vs Chelsea.

think personally Rooney from next season on should be deployed as a central striker preferably in the hole.He needs to be involved in the action to get gthe best out of him as an individual even if the self sacrifice h makes in tracking back is just as vital for the team. I think if fergie buys a striker who can actually stay fit unlike saha we will see more of the 442 set up that suits rooney's attacking game. We saw tonight how effective he was in linking up with gerard in particular in that position. I still think he has had a very good season and as our talisman we cannot do without him. So in Europe i still believe that despite winning the champions league we can adapt to a more attacking format a la how we play in the Premiership then we will see Rooney at his imperious best alongside another striker.Tevez would be ideal but no harm having a bit of competition which we didnt have in the striking for virtually the whole season. Still whatever system we play Rooney's enthusiasm for the game remains undiminshed which is admirable and his unselfish play for the greater cause deserves as much recognition as anybody over the course of the season just gone
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top