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Guardian article on man Utd/Chelsea debt.

it looks like our debts aren't as bad as we though. Chelsea are walking on a tightrope with interest free lonas from abrohimovic. should he leave they've 18months to find best part of 800m gbp.. Our debts are manageable and structured. We're in a better positioon than chelsea

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/20/premierleague.chelsea
 
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I don't think you can read properly mate.
The article says exactly the opposit. :eek:

Chelsea Limited, the company which owns the football club, Chelsea owed £736m to all its creditors. United's accounts, also recently filed at Companies House, showed total creditors at £764m.

Which i make to be United owe £38m MORE that Chelski owe.

Also United's loans incurred interest of £81m last year, the loan to Chelsea by Abramovich is interest-free.

If those figures are correct, which i have no reason to doubt as David Conn is one of the most clued up people in the financial world of football, then that is seriously very worrying.

The last set of figures on the United debt were £666m owed and yearly interest at £61m.

That is a massive leap and furthermore shows that all the money raised through tv money/ticket price rises/merchandise etc has not reduced Uniteds debt by one penny or even covered the yearly interest payments. :eek:

I've tried for ages to get people to open their eyes but just get met with the response " we'll we have the best players, we're doing alright on the pitch, we're winning trophys ".

Just don't know what to say anymore.
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SALFORD RED said:
I don't think you can read properly mate.
The article says exactly the opposit. :eek:

Chelsea Limited, the company which owns the football club, Chelsea owed £736m to all its creditors. United's accounts, also recently filed at Companies House, showed total creditors at £764m.

Which i make to be United owe £38m MORE that Chelski owe.

Also United's loans incurred interest of £81m last year, the loan to Chelsea by Abramovich is interest-free.

If those figures are correct, which i have no reason to doubt as David Conn is one of the most clued up people in the financial world of football, then that is seriously very worrying.

The last set of figures on the United debt were £666m owed and yearly interest at £61m.

That is a massive leap and furthermore shows that all the money raised through tv money/ticket price rises/merchandise etc has not reduced Uniteds debt by one penny or even covered the yearly interest payments. :eek:

I've tried for ages to get people to open their eyes but just get met with the response " we'll we have the best players, we're doing alright on the pitch, we're winning trophys ".

Just don't know what to say anymore.
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I do think it is a grave concern, NOW THAT things are not improving but deteriorating it seems. I was one of those adopting the wait-and-see approach to see if the situation could improve given time (hope is a four-letter word and proven so again). Unfortunately, as of now, it does not seem to be heading in the right direction and has become obviously too glaring to ignore.

I really shudder to wonder how long this can go on both on and off the pitch, be it affecting the players we can invest in to of course the nightmarish exponential hike in ticket prices for the match-going fans. Debts are not necessarily bad only if they are good debts as in contrast to bad debts because they actually put money in your pocket when the returns outweigh any interest incurred. In this case, it is apparently not applicable even after all this while.

While we should not be ostriches burying our heads in the sand in self denial or pretending everything is or will be hunkie dorie, it is also equally exasperating to know that there is nothing we, fans, can really do about it. Or is there?! Boycotting the club should not be an option and let's hope it will never be.
 

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Well, the debt will reduce before too long I hope. Our only hope is that the Glazers do know what they're doing. With tampa bay, their big red monster is still there but is as a percentage of the club value, 15% i think the figure is. in the time they've owned the bucaneers the club has more than doubled in value. So assuming we'll hit the big £2Bn mark, with the debt at £500m gbp i think that's manageable and quite healthy. 4:1 gearing ratio is heal;thy in accounting terms. ANy more and we'd be stretching it.
 

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i can't understand the ongoing negativity towards the glazers,they have put utd on top of the pile again.
ok they have occured a massive debt but they are billionaires -"that means very very clever with money" , if they were to sell a successful utd they would make a huge profit and they would then repay the loan and not utd.
people on here seem to know more about the glazers investments and personal wealth than the glazers themselves, {these people need to wake up} unless these people have more money than the glazers they should shut up ,the glazers are very successful at what they do hence the term billionaires ,so stop dragging the club down with this over the top nonesense and doom and gloom.
 

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as i've said before i have done alot of reading on this subject(thanks to SAL) and get frustrated why people as versa says "ostriches burying our heads in the sand."

we cannot panic, but looking at the figures and looking at what the club are bringing in and what the team have achieved the past two seasons, surely it has to be a MASSIVE, MASSIVE worry to find out that its not doing any good.the numbers are simply frightening.
 

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sweet fa said:
i can't understand the ongoing negativity towards the glazers,they have put utd on top of the pile again.
ok they have occured a massive debt but they are billionaires -"that means very very clever with money" , if they were to sell a successful utd they would make a huge profit and they would then repay the loan and not utd.
people on here seem to know more about the glazers investments and personal wealth than the glazers themselves, {these people need to wake up} unless these people have more money than the glazers they should shut up ,the glazers are very successful at what they do hence the term billionaires ,so stop dragging the club down with this over the top nonesense and doom and gloom.

LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!!! what the team are achieving is NOT bringing enough in to bring the debt down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.................do some reading.honestly you will change your mind.
 

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Do not take debts lightly or conveniently sweep it under the carpet and go to bed.

Do understand what is the actual meaning of interest. It is the extra obligatory payment on top of the principle, recurring and compounding until the actual principle is fully repaid. If the interest cannot even be handled properly or comfortably, what chance is there for the principle to be repaid, let alone be run down. Then the debs are not good debts but bad debts. And as at current standing, MUFC is more than 50% owned by the banks and not by the so-called 'owners', the Glazers, billionaires or not.

And billionaires should not be automatically trusted without any question or even healthy suspicion, whether they are smart with their finances or not. Or maybe they are ‘too smart’ for comfort, for all you know. Do they actually use their own money to put the money where their mouths are? Or are they just ‘cleverly’ using the club as a financial vehicle? At least in this aspect alone, I trust Roman Abramovich more than the Glazers, simply because he physically takes out his own money to bankroll Chelski. Yes, some may argue or remain suspicious that it is just his hobby and he may walk away from it someday when he gets bored with it, leaving the club in turmoil. Fair enough. But do remember he does not charge interest, which says a lot in itself too, and meaning the club will be none the worse in the worst-case scenario without this burden of extra obligatory payment called interest that is recurring and compounding, while having enjoyed every cent of the money put in to date.

If the figures are improving, I would have no qualms about it, even if it takes a bit longer than it should. But the facts remain it is NOT thus far. Can you imagine if we are slightly less successful than we are?! I would be most surprised if there is still no cause for concern or if there is still a stubborn indifference.

Everything is linked in terms of success for a club; nothing is independent in itself, from the fans to the players and staff to the performance on the pitch to the finances of the club etc. So the next question would be, is the current status SUSTAINABLE? Something has to give way or somebody has to bear the costs; no two ways about it, for the heavy debts with running interest will not disappear into thin air overnight.

While everything is linked by a chain that is invisible to the eyes, it should not be ‘invisible’ to the brains.
 

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i am not an accountant . i got cse grade 4 in maths on graduating from my approved school . i support man utd and have for many many years . i remember the seventies and eighties . during that period we were on a par with portsmouth now except with bigger crowds .

the best we could look forward to was a good cup run . runner up in league once every 15 years if luck went our way . the butchers were inn charge and the edwards ran the club like one of louis shops .

fans never gave a thought to who owed who what they just wished we could have a bit of what the scousers up the east lancs had . titles trophies good football all seemed so far away . you could turn up early and get a pie and pint then pay at the gate .

fast forward to the late nineties and sky are buying us for 623 million just ten years after mike knighton was going to buy us for 15 million . the thing about the debt is if the glazers put the club up for sale tommorow they would probably get over a billion for it . if it reverted to a plc they would have no trouble finding shareholders despite football clubs rarely turning operating profits over the years .

hags sees it like this great players on the pitch , trophy room filling up nicely so enjoy it for as long as it lasts . prices of everything will rise but as long as we are not in top 5 to get into yet top table can we really complain ?

when plc in charge i remember the moaning that we missed on players down to salary cap and keeping shareholders sweet .

football fandom is a captive market in as much as you do not buy a liverpool top one week then a utd the next so as long as the product is good the banks will not be panicing about their dough .

it is in the interest of whoever owns club to maintain the standards so mr chan in china along with his billion friends buys a utd shirt rather than a chelsea one .

the chances of manchester united folding are nil - the real question is how much will the fans be squeezed for over the next few years ? automatic cup schemes have been slagged yet i remember fans moaning that they had to go in a one in 6 chance ballot for a cup ticket when they watched all other games and that that was unfair . the corporate buyers should be encouraged as they pay a huge premium for the day out hopefully minimising the rises for joe public .

is the issue here really not that player wages need regulating accross world football ?
 

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Reading stuff like that scares the hell out of me. Its funny how these reports always come out when its our most important games in the season. It aslo came up at the Wigan match.... We are so big and well supported around the globe that there is a huge amount of money to be made, and if they Glazers ever sell, or are forced to sell, there will be a lot of interested parties who would happily buy them out. I personally think we can be valued about a Billion ?

There might be a transition when Sir Alex leaves, or there might not be. The Debt is here to stay. Nah, the debt won't disappear before Sir Alex retire. The debt will be here for decades.

Reading this kind of stuff makes me depressed. :(
 
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