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This season is becoming eerily similar to 03-04.

The big difference is that now we have as much or more talent than any other team. But, we are being outplayed and out-coached. A lot of posters are blaming the players (with some justification), but the real factor might just be our preparation and tactics.

Defending - we are leaking goals (and scoring opportunities for that matter) like we haven't done in several seasons. The personnel hasn't changed - in fact you could argue we have gotten even stronger. But our back four look nervous, almost as if they don't know what they're supposed to be doing - who's marking who...etc. While I realise that defending is a team effort, the 'team' is just not doing the job.

Attacking - although much of attack can be determined by moments of brilliance, we are getting very few goals through a player or two simply being an the right spot at the right time. That too, comes down to preparation and coaching. You make your own good luck, and we are making precious little of it.

We may just be missing a real tactical 'coach' - Carlos Q. - a little more than we think.
 

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Nope. We are playing far more attractive football right now than in 03/04.

The only thing wrong was our fiishing. If we had taken our chances and won by 2 or 3 goals then we'd all be saying "Carlos who?"

I seem to remember when we were shocking away from home in the big games and everyone blamed Carlos for it - now as soon as we lose people are saying the good football we played last year was down to him:confused:

He played a major part, but we aren't missing him. When it comes to the tight CL games we will see. There was nothing wrong with our tactics today (just poor finishing + defending) or vs Chelsea (fatigue got in the way with our injured players)
 

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Ferguson is the better coach BUT... Yes, Queiroz, was probably the tactical genius who complemented Ferguson's determination & grit.

Queiroz was the reason Ferdinand Vidic became, arguably, the worlds best defensive partnership.

His tactical knowledge was especially evident on our defense as a team. With Queiroz, if we went 1 - 0 up you felt safe.

It meant that even 1 goal could potentially be enough to win any match. Ferguson subscribes to the concede 1, score 2 theory. :)
 

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moondog said:
This season is becoming eerily similar to 03-04.

.........

We may just be missing a real tactical 'coach' - Carlos Q. - a little more than we think.

Exactly same idea I have! Without Queiroz, MU seems to be lacking of tactic attack. Hope it won't be another panic season as well as 03/04.

:(
 

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moondog said:
This season is becoming eerily similar to 03-04.

The big difference is that now we have as much or more talent than any other team. But, we are being outplayed and out-coached. A lot of posters are blaming the players (with some justification), but the real factor might just be our preparation and tactics.

Defending - we are leaking goals (and scoring opportunities for that matter) like we haven't done in several seasons. The personnel hasn't changed - in fact you could argue we have gotten even stronger. But our back four look nervous, almost as if they don't know what they're supposed to be doing - who's marking who...etc. While I realise that defending is a team effort, the 'team' is just not doing the job.

Attacking - although much of attack can be determined by moments of brilliance, we are getting very few goals through a player or two simply being an the right spot at the right time. That too, comes down to preparation and coaching. You make your own good luck, and we are making precious little of it.

We may just be missing a real tactical 'coach' - Carlos Q. - a little more than we think.
the tactical genius who faile
d at madrid and is making a hash of the national job ?

he was a good number 2 as was kiddo and also mclaren ---- tactical genius he was not .
 

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I think we are.

Queiroz was the man who was credited with the great defence. Now, we are all over the place defensively. In terms of the attack, generally we are playing very well attacking-wise and if we had taken more of our chances today we would have got a result.

However, today was the perfect example of what I was talking about a couple of days ago. Saying "We'll just score more" is a bad attitude to have, and today proved that it can well be undone.
 

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haggler said:
the tactical genius who faile
d at madrid and is making a hash of the national job ?

he was a good number 2 as was kiddo and also mclaren ---- tactical genius he was not .

Maybe it was the combination of Quieroz AND Fergie?

Queiroz hasn't had a brilliant start as Portugal's national coach, but Fergie hasn't had a brialliant start to the season without Quieroz either. Almost a third of the season gone and we're not doing as well against the top 4 as we did last season.
 

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RedForceRising said:
Maybe it was the combination of Quieroz AND Fergie?

Queiroz hasn't had a brilliant start as Portugal's national coach, but Fergie hasn't had a brialliant start to the season without Quieroz either. Almost a third of the season gone and we're not doing as well against the top 4 as we did last season.
I absolutely agree.

I do think we are missing Queiroz. It doesn't seem that Queiroz is a good manager, or head coach, but as an assistant hes great. And we always heard from Sir Alex about how much he trusted Queiroz and

Brian Kidd and Steve McClaren aren't exactly fantastic managers either, but I they done a great job when they were assisting Sir Alex as well.
 

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CQ did some interesting things b4 joining Man Utd, nothing too serious, but he did some nice things, and won us (Sporting) our 1st trophy in 15 years. However, i think his performances after haven't been even to par to what he was. Madrid, and now Portugal, it's probably not just coincidence. Quite possibly it's the combination between SAF and CQ that works wonders, one complementing the other's failings.
If that's the case, then PLEEEEAASE come get him. hopefully before we loose all chances of qualifying for the world cup ;)
 

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I agree i think that cq and saf complement each other perfectly. BUt queiros's defensive tactics is what we are missing imo. our defence has looked desastrous at times, and even look at our defensive record when carlos was here, like they say defense wins titles.
 

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2005 - CQ blamed for the ***** team performances.
2008 - CQ being praised for the team performances before he left.


MAKE UP YOUR ****ING MIND.
 

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Everyone used to blame C. Queros for playing Rooney on the left where he did nothing and wasn't comfortable
but since he left the first few games of the season Rooney played on the left so maybe we need him back
 

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Stephen said:
2005 - CQ blamed for the ***** team performances.
2008 - CQ being praised for the team performances before he left.


MAKE UP YOUR ****ING MIND.
Yeah black or white...thats how it should be.
 

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spellbound said:
Yeah black or white...thats how it should be.
To add to it he definately was a tactical genius in terms of working in the background with SAF and we can clearly see that in terms of the shape of the team and the way they performed against big teams, not that we have lost it.

I believe we should have won all 3 of our matches with the rest of the teams in big 4. We were comfortably in the lead in chelsea/liverpool matches and managed to draw/lose due to defensive errors which was not so common in the CQ period.

In all he was an integral part of the jigsaw which needs to be replaced or renewed with new pieces is what is the order of the day. Its not that SAF teams were not successful without him but yes its going to take sometime to get back together when you lose someone with importance.
 

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Would Queiroz Have Let Sir Make Mistakes?
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,13320_4481705,00.html



There's an almost-forgotten story about last season's Champions League final that goes something like this: Sir Alex Ferguson was intent on bringing John O'Shea off the bench but was dissuaded from doing so by Carlos Queiroz.

It was by no means the first time that Queiroz had gently coaxed Ferguson into changing his mind while presumably - in the manner of most successful relationships - deftly making Ferguson believe that he had made the key decision himself. Unfortunately for United fans, it was the last time Queiroz has been able to exert his influence over Ferguson.

Ferguson's former assistant Steve McClaren later suggested that the hardest part of the job was managing the manager - introducing him to new ideas without making him feel like you were being patronising or acting beyond your remit. Queiroz obviously had that manager-management down to an art.

Would his successor Mike Phelan - a loyal and devoted footservant at United over the last seven years - have stopped Ferguson bringing on O'Shea in Moscow? Or would he have said 'yes boss' and instructed the Irishman to take off his tracksuit?

Conversely, would Queiroz have discouraged Ferguson from fielding a lumbering Gary Neville at full-back against the extremely quick Samir Nasri? Would he have suggested that Cristiano Ronaldo swapped wings to make him more of a goal threat? Indeed, would he have insisted on a 4-3-3 that would have given Ronaldo last season's freedom to operate and also matched Arsenal in the middle?

We can only speculate about the answers to those questions but there will be speculation as long as United 'struggle'. This is not a kneejerk reaction to one defeat at Arsenal (though who amongst us would think a United with six minutes of injury time could offer so little threat?) but rather the defensive shambles that were the second halves of games with Everton and Hull in recent weeks, and the fact that they have thrown away seven points from winning positions already this season.

The importance of a foil to any successful manager in these times when coaching is only a fraction of the job cannot be underestimated. Don't think it's a coincidence that scouser Sammy Lee's return to Liverpool has coincided with an attitude towards the Premier League that's closer to the fans' own, or that Luiz Felipe Scolari chose Ray Wilkins to act as the calm and urbane yang to his fiery yin because he does not have faith in his own countrymen.

Recent successful partnerships (Ferguson and Queiroz, Wenger and Rice, Mourinho and Clarke) and those at current league leaders at Chelsea and Liverpool would suggest that the perfect pairing is a combination of British and continental. This may be a tad simplistic, but there are many who would suggest that Ferguson should have chosen a foreign assistant to complement his strengths.

Ferguson has never been a comfortable coach or a gifted tactician and someone like Pako Ayesteran may have brought new ideas that he (or Mike Phelan or Brian McClair) may not have considered. And an outsider might have had the balls to implement them.

Of course, there will be plenty who say that United have come back from more difficult and seemingly impossible positions in the title race - and that United have had the hardest fixture list of any of the contenders - and that is true. But the last time Queiroz left in 2003, they were in touch with leaders Arsenal at the start of November and they eventually ended the season 15 points adrift of the champions. Could that happen again?

Sarah Winterburn
 

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I am with haggler on this one , a tactical genius he was not.
Remember he was the instigator of the lone striker system which gave us two barren years and pi##ed ruud off, thats not to say him and saf didnt make a good partnership.
You have got to remember the foundation has already been laid at the club and the number two job should be easy
 

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Quieroz when he first came didn't have that much of input in the club. He just did what phelan is doing now, which is being a yes man to sir alex. But nearing the end of his united career, he was given alot of responsibility. For e.g Being the man who sign ando & nani. I think as time went on, sir alex knew carlos was a great tactician & trusted him alot. My point, quieroz is a big personality, & is sorely missed at the club.
 

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^ Good point, Nav,

It's like that when you take over in managerial position, you earn trust and receive more responsibilities, but he could and should be egging the players from the touchline already.

No harm in him doing that.

There's is some contention about how much importance Carlos had on tactics, but as I've said, maybe it was a combination of Fergie AND Carlos that worked.

Fielding the right players, using the right subs, resting players at the right time.....
 

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shanky said:
To add to it he definately was a tactical genius in terms of working in the background with SAF and we can clearly see that in terms of the shape of the team and the way they performed against big teams, not that we have lost it.

I believe we should have won all 3 of our matches with the rest of the teams in big 4. We were comfortably in the lead in chelsea/liverpool matches and managed to draw/lose due to defensive errors which was not so common in the CQ period.

In all he was an integral part of the jigsaw which needs to be replaced or renewed with new pieces is what is the order of the day. Its not that SAF teams were not successful without him but yes its going to take sometime to get back together when you lose someone with importance.

good logical post.

Some might argue the importance of Carlos Q and his tactical astuteness, but he definitely was a part of the success and the tactics.

Many feel that he was the reason of boring football being played, but the defence benefited from it and two back-to-back titles and a CL trophy show that Fergie + Carlos Q were a good team.
 
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