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Red Devil said:
To understand this thread you have to look at the "way" United have been playing this season. Also you have to look at the fact that most United fans, especially those under 30, have been spoilt rotten by Fergie and his teams. Anything less than perfection is frowned upon.

United this season have, perfromance wise, been lacking BY PREVIOUS STANDARDS.

I too am disappointed by this season's levels of performance - we are no longer "invincible" at home; we do not perform at home. Our better performances are always away.

If United are THAT bad - it does not say a lot for the rest of the division, supposedly the best Div in the world!! But we are judging on top standards, maybe we should not, I don't know?
i know. i was kidding RD.... but in all fairness - OT hasn't been a fortress for quite some time now - especially not the previous seasons... I would also like to ask some of those "we're better off without Ruud" posters a question. Performances with him in the team were most of the times scincilating, mesmerising ( especially that season when he first came overhere )just great displays overall. I'm saying most of the times because for the last couple of months with him in the team - we weren't playing as good as we can. He left - we won a league, people started saying that our incapability to win the league was most due to Ruud's presence, that he was slowing us down and stuff, forgeting that we had just lost both of our first choice midfielders(scholes,keano and even smith afterwards) so that maybe the main reason for our underperforming was down to lacking a good pair of playmakers. That's what playmakers are for= Play - making. So, as I said - he left we won the league and everything was great. But there is a different side of the story - he ALSO won a league, and was the TOP SCORER of his league. Furthermore - we won a league with the fewest number of points any team had won it in 4 years. Does that mean we would have won it had other teams continued working on the same standards they had set during the years ?If not - than what the hell Ruud's departure had to do with us winning it? I mean - if Ruud had gone a year before our performances of last season would have been forgotten considering we would have finished 2nd. And with this season almost over and we all agree that our performances haven't been as good as last season's I must ask you - are we really that good without Ruud ?Quality wise - we lack a true goalscorer-predator. And performances wise - 1 good season doesn't prove anything. coz it seems to me that this season has shown us too many west Hams,Cities,Pompies etc...You might wanna reconsider your answer
 

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Red Devil said:
A good point which I have touched upon in other threads.

For those of you wearing rosy glasses, take them off a moment. Scholes has been a terrific player for us and is, I think, now in the legend status (something I do not give lightly). BUT - he is no longer Paul Scholes who many of you grew up watching - he is too old now for the speed and pace that United use every week. Giggs is the same, he is "past news" and this is the reason Fergie mentioned only recently that, for "sentiments sake" he would use Paul in a CL final. Even Fergie realises that Paul is no longer Mr Auto Choice.

The main midfield now, or should be, Ronaldo, Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Nani (perm any 4 from the 6)
:) Another of 'that generation' (think Sal, Charles mentioned before) giving their common verdict on these 2 legends. And Giggs, legend or no legend, has just been making far too many 'strange passes' to his team mates and then glare at them. :confused:

This is definitely but only one of the factors why we are not going places. Other factors include our lack of clinical finishing, too many wasteful, long, high, hopeful ball forward at times (especially when we are chasing the game and/or bereft of ideas, which ironically, only worsen our predicament by giving the ball away), our lack of an outright striker or goal poacher to compliment our 2 foxes in the hole aka you know who, the too-volatile change in the midfield engine room and/or rotation of squad, the more effective 4-4-2 formation for us not always used etc. IMHO only.

Edit: Most important of all, every stray or 'strange' pass, every long, high, hopeful ball forward that gives away most of the time, is just going to set us back in our momentum and buildup. Maybe that is why we struggle at times, especially when we are behind or fail to break the deadlock. Our anxiety only gets the better of us and makes things worse.
 

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I would not say we are "better off without Ruud" but we are now a completely different team than we played WITH Ruud. The patterns are not the same, styles have changed. Ruud would not recognise the play now.
 

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Red Devil said:
I would not say we are "better off without Ruud" but we are now a completely different team than we played WITH Ruud. The patterns are not the same, styles have changed. Ruud would not recognise the play now.
Mate, Ruud is argubly the best striker in the world. Of course he would recognise the stlye we play now.

Perhaps he would not score as much in our style now as the old style.

I still think Rud would score more goals than Rooney and Tevez if he were still here but he would also probably slow our game down and Ronaldo.

When we had Beckham on the right, Giggs on the left, Keano and Scholesy in the middle we were perfect. Beckham whipped in pin-perfect crosses onto Ruuds head, Keane chased everything and never passed to the oposition, Scholsey was a God and Giggs was incredible.

I think people underestimate how good that team was. For me they are still far superior than our present team and that's not just because they won more.
 

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Berbatov>Tevez
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Red Devil said:
I would not say we are "better off without Ruud" but we are now a completely different team than we played WITH Ruud. The patterns are not the same, styles have changed. Ruud would not recognise the play now.
- and that's where you're wrong imo...how many times this season have we seen our players continuosly crossing it into the box but no one was there to put the ball in the net. I've seen it numerous of timesthis season and i even left a comment about it a couple of times in the shoutbox during the match. Lyon away - long balls to rooney,long balls to rooney. Pompey defeat - crosses , crosses and crosses ! so many times this season we've done it - and the fact that ronaldo's matured and added an extra option in attack doesn't mean that we're "completely different " side. Style has been the same imo. Or slightly different . Our play still depends on good crosses from the flank and forgive me, but I can't think of anyone else than Ruud who would have loved them more.Even ronaldo got on the end of it many times this season ( derby was the latest. ) . Then Tevez is the prime example. Lyon away, Liverpool away ( kick it into the box to find a person who can score ),Chelsea at home - cross form giggs... Crosses are still there( and sometimes it is really frustrating to watch), style hasn't changed a lot... Not to mention all of the misses that were results of a good crosses into the box..regarding to someone's "ruud was slowing us down" - again - it was only for one period of time in which we were lacking cmf's,,, with sheasy and giggs in the cm areas - everything was slower....
 

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CROoney from Dubrovnik said:
- and that's where you're wrong imo...how many times this season have we seen our players continuosly crossing it into the box but no one was there to put the ball in the net. I've seen it numerous of timesthis season and i even left a comment about it a couple of times in the shoutbox during the match. Lyon away - long balls to rooney,long balls to rooney. Pompey defeat - crosses , crosses and crosses ! so many times this season we've done it - and the fact that ronaldo's matured and added an extra option in attack doesn't mean that we're "completely different " side. Style has been the same imo. Or slightly different . Our play still depends on good crosses from the flank and forgive me, but I can't think of anyone else than Ruud who would have loved them more.Even ronaldo got on the end of it many times this season ( derby was the latest. ) . Then Tevez is the prime example. Lyon away, Liverpool away ( kick it into the box to find a person who can score ),Chelsea at home - cross form giggs... Crosses are still there( and sometimes it is really frustrating to watch), style hasn't changed a lot... Not to mention all of the misses that were results of a good crosses into the box..regarding to someone's "ruud was slowing us down" - again - it was only for one period of time in which we were lacking cmf's,,, with sheasy and giggs in the cm areas - everything was slower....
I concur. Good post.

Beckham landed his balls on Ruuds head and wherever else Ruud wanted them all the time ;)


Also, Ruud was a poacher and scored so many goals inside the box. How often does Rooney score from inside the box!!!
 

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Keano4taoiseach said:
I concur. Good post.

Beckham landed his balls on Ruuds head and wherever else Ruud wanted them all the time ;)

Also, Ruud was a poacher and scored so many goals inside the box. How often does Rooney score from inside the box!!!
In terms of context and intention, perfectly clean and innocent. Passed Quality Test too.:)
 

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I would rather hit a bit of slump in form and have rotation by winning 1-0 then have a team too tired to perform like last season in the latter stages. Fergie knows best, so in Sir Alex we must have faith.
 
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