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In Jones we trust
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8,412 Posts
i can. and i have.
time will prove me right
Bullshit! I've been in Doc Brown's time machine. England win the World Cup at Wembley against the Korean Empire in 2086 with a hattrick from the soul of Bobby Charlton implanted into a 20 year old cyborg.
 

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GOAT
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6,081 Posts
It all starts from grass roots level, it's no coincidence that the likes of Germany, Spain, Brazil, Italy etc are constantly producing talented, technical players through the youth ranks then later into their first teams. Smaller pitches, smaller goals, different styles of training methods and we'll see a huge improvement because playing people like James Milner and Scott Parker because "they can do a job" is pure rubbish. You'll never see the big countries do that, it should be based on ability and teamwork.

With the new plans that the FA are giving the go ahead, we should start to produce more technical players on a regular basis. We have Wilshere who's arguably the best English player that has been produced in this country since Rooney, but that isn't enough if England want to compete in major tournaments and if they want a growing amount of top players in their leagues like the other top countries do.

At the moment we have Jack Wilshere (the best gifted player out the lot), Welbeck, Cleverley, Powell, Zaha, Sterling, Ince, Shaw, Jones, Rodwell (if he can stay fit) and a few others that are all coming along nicely and if they're produced and used rightly over the next few years, then we'll look a heck of a lot stronger than what we have done in previous finals.

They need to dump 4-4-2 as well, when will England finally learn that isn't the right formation.

Hart​
Walker Jones Smalling Shaw​
Wilshere Powell​
Zaha Rooney Sterling​
Welbeck/Sturridge​

That could become a pretty decent team in a few years time.

I still fancy Germany and Spain to dominate for the next decade or so, with Belgium swiftly climbing through the ranks.
 

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BORN RED DIE RED.
Joined
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3,486 Posts
It all starts from grass roots level, it's no coincidence that the likes of Germany, Spain, Brazil, Italy etc are constantly producing talented, technical players through the youth ranks then later into their first teams. Smaller pitches, smaller goals, different styles of training methods and we'll see a huge improvement because playing people like James Milner and Scott Parker because "they can do a job" is pure rubbish. You'll never see the big countries do that, it should be based on ability and teamwork.

With the new plans that the FA are giving the go ahead, we should start to produce more technical players on a regular basis. We have Wilshere who's arguably the best English player that has been produced in this country since Rooney, but that isn't enough if England want to compete in major tournaments and if they want a growing amount of top players in their leagues like the other top countries do.

At the moment we have Jack Wilshere (the best gifted player out the lot), Welbeck, Cleverley, Powell, Zaha, Sterling, Ince, Shaw, Jones, Rodwell (if he can stay fit) and a few others that are all coming along nicely and if they're produced and used rightly over the next few years, then we'll look a heck of a lot stronger than what we have done in previous finals.

They need to dump 4-4-2 as well, when will England finally learn that isn't the right formation.

Hart​
Walker Jones Smalling Shaw​
Wilshere Powell​
Zaha Rooney Sterling​
Welbeck/Sturridge​

That could become a pretty decent team in a few years time.

I still fancy Germany and Spain to dominate for the next decade or so, with Belgium swiftly climbing through the ranks.
we had a good debate on this really in the nani thread...i stand by what i said in there and i also think there is to much pressure on club managers to succeed that they will just import to ease the pressure rather than developing home grown.
 

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GOAT
Joined
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6,081 Posts
I would say Belgium has a better shot at a world cup within the next 12 years.
Courtois​
Alderweireld Kompany Vertonghen Vermaelen​
Witsel​
Fellaini Dembele​
Mirallas Lukaku Hazard​

Definitely has potential that's for sure.
 

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Never argue with an idiot
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2,463 Posts
check the transfer thread

English sides no longer look to bring on home brewed players.
Look at Chelseas academy. Look at our under 21 side.
Managers are looking for ready made players from south america and spain ignoring what is under their nose.
Take a risk and blood some of our own and you will be rewarded.
The main reason for this is the rule that the FA brought in some years ago to ban recruitment of under 16s who lived more than 90 minutes from the club or 60 mins for under 12s. The net result was the upsurge in foreign youngsters being recruited. So we could sign Antonio McTavish from Brazil but not the next David Beckham if he lived 60 mins away. This was done to stop the big clubs (Manchester United) from gaining an advantage even though we were light years ahead of everyone else in developing young players. The premier league has finally flexed its muscles and threatened to withhold the £5m per year they give to FA youth development unless the rule was changed. The rule was changed, things should improve, for United. England still won't win the world cup this century though. :D
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8956771/Manchester-Uniteds-Brian-McClair-insists-new-academy-rules-are-essential-to-help-England-catch-up-with-rivals.html
 

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Registered
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1,640 Posts
Why would Jose Mourinho, Arsene Wenger, Manuel Pellegrini or Andre Villas Boas care about bringing through young British talent? You could look at board level but even then they're in the business to make money not feed English ambition.

Grass roots is the obvious place to grow. Wilshere, Luke Shaw, Phil Jones. These players are good enough to play a big role in their teams starting XI at a young age so it can be done.

Kids should learn to play the game the right way in their local team with their mates. Kids are signing contracts at 9 years old these days. Nice way to keep the pressures off...
I think your opening statement hit the nail on the head ,rather than crying about the dearth of young English talent ,the greater tragedy is the inability of English managers to reinvent themselves ,revolutionalise the game and create waves that will make the bigger clubs sit up and notice . As long as English coaches have this insular attitude they will never get to fuse the English gallant style with the technique ,control based continental style . Its high time that the next batch of English coaches ditch the trend and be humble and courage enough to expose themselves ,by attaching themselves at the football institutions like Bayern ,Barca and Ajax to absorb training methods ,new tactics and the genera feel of continental football . Once you have English managers/coaches of a higher standard then naturally the players will follow . Look at it this way ,Spain had the Del Bosques and the Aragoneses before they had the likes of Xavi and Iniesta in their pomp .
In a nutshell before addressing the lack of talent on the pitch sort out the dearth of English talent in the dugout .
 

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Registered
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1,622 Posts
these are my 2 cents..

i believe England will qualify for the next world cup and if that are lucky with injuries, remember England lost coz of penalties against Italy and had so many injuries(no rio, no wilshere, no walker etc), England will do good but wont win

Roy need to change our tactical approach and formation and include more youngster in the squad and get rid of the oldies and those not performing, by doing this england will improve a lot. This is the most important thing right now, if we change that and with the right formation chosen England will do much better

On the other hand there are a lot of promising youngster coming through which should give a very good bast for the 2016 and 2020 euros and 2018 wc, these include players like butland, shaw, jones, caulker, walker, powell, wilshere, rodwell, mcearchen, barkley, sterling, zaha, chamberlain, ince, redmond, hughes, keane, wickham, welbeck...so its not all dark.

The Fa knows something is wrong and with the st Georges park and the amount of money they are investing in youth and in coahces, in the next 5-10 years time, England will have much much more technical players like wilshere, and things will improve.
 

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Juventus fan
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17,446 Posts
--------------------Rooney

Wellbeck-------------------------------Zaha

-------Wilshere-------------McEachran

-------------Pearson/Tunnicliffe

Shaw------Smalling---Jones----Walker

--------------------Hart



This team will triumph in the 2016 Euro's, win the 2018 World Cup and laugh in your face.
Chalobah in for McEachran

I don't necessarily think a developed team like this is a hundred miles away from competing in a tournament, but there's just a high benchmark so you're looking at 2018/2020 to really stand a chance. I'd say there are just a few nations that are a bit too far ahead in this generation. Then again, it's not just England. Argentina are nowhere near, Netherlands are nowhere near, France are nowhere near. Italy are closer but they too are a fair way off. If it wasn't in their back garden I'd also say Brazil wouldn't stand a chance in 2014 but they'll go in as one of 3 top favourites.
 

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On the other hand there are a lot of promising youngster coming through which should give a very good bast for the 2016 and 2020 euros and 2018 wc, these include players like butland, shaw, jones, caulker, walker, powell, wilshere, rodwell, mcearchen, barkley, sterling, zaha, chamberlain, ince, redmond, hughes, keane, wickham, welbeck...so its not all dark.
I've been saying that to myself the last 20 years. The future looked bright for England when there was fowler, McManaman, Nick Barmby in the U21s, then it was the golden generation with owen Rooney becks etc. I wouldn't say the current crop is any better than those. The big problem is some people have put down what seems like a decent starting XI on paper, but outside of that there is no depth and that is one of the factors hindering our success. There are some big problems facing the English game. 1) the mentality of many english people that we don't have to adapt our game to the continental way starting right from 7-8 upwards. If change is coming in terms of getting more coaches or investing in facilities it is generally happening too slowly or in too small measure. 2) The PL has too much fixture congestion and the way of playing is too physical and rigourous. Consequently players are burned out early in their careers, at the end of the season they are struggling with injuries or fatigue which doesn't bode well for the major finals. 3) Too many young players are prima donners before they have even signed a professional contract. They are hyped up as the next big thing and it goes to their heads, rather than keeping their head down, staying away from trouble and booze.
 
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Chalobah in for McEachran

I don't necessarily think a developed team like this is a hundred miles away from competing in a tournament, but there's just a high benchmark so you're looking at 2018/2020 to really stand a chance. I'd say there are just a few nations that are a bit too far ahead in this generation. Then again, it's not just England. Argentina are nowhere near, Netherlands are nowhere near, France are nowhere near. Italy are closer but they too are a fair way off. If it wasn't in their back garden I'd also say Brazil wouldn't stand a chance in 2014 but they'll go in as one of 3 top favourites.
Spain are starting to fade, I don't rate the crop that Brazil are currently developing as highly as everybody seems to do. Germany are the real deal. They are a young talented team that has the potential to conquer everything. After them you have Belgium who seem to have a golden generation in their hands. The Netherlands and Italy have an aging squad. France are nowhere near anything good. Argentina could possibly, after a hundred ifs are met, do something good.

All in all if you exclude Germany and Belgium who seem to be ahead of everyone else, England is not that far behind. With the right manager and the correct management they can achieve something.

People seem to forget that in life, nevermind football, things can drastically change over a few weeks. Three years in football are very long and a lot of things can change. I mean who could think back in 2005 that Spain, a team that was known for its failures and its players were labeled as losers, would win the 2008 Euro's and start a domination that would last for four years and would see them win everything apart from the Confederations? Or who could think in 2001 that Porto would win the Champions League in 2004? Who could think in 2007 that the biggest losers in club football (Inter Milan) would win the treble in 2010?

And last but not least people should not forget that, when I was 14 years old, I experienced the greatest surprise in the history of football and saw a whole nation going crazy with millions of people getting out in the streets and celebrating over Greece's Euro 2004 win. Greece, yes, Greece won a fucking Euro. After that the belief that ANYTHING can happen in football is deeply instilled in my brain.

Now tell me, who would think back in 2001 that Greece could win the Euro 2004? Who could say that in 2001 without getting enclosed in a mental asylum?

And England is not Greece. England is full of world class players who play for the best clubs in the world. So they have the same chance to make it as any other "big" national team in the world. Be that reaching the final in 2016 as my bet is or winning it as well.
 

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Big Daddy
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34,250 Posts
One main reason

1966.
Seriously, if you're looking for the Liverpool of international football, look no further. Because somehow England caught lightning in a bottle once, the culture in this country (and yes I include the media in this) is that England have a divine right to win the thing again.

If I ran the FA, the first thing I would do is ban any mention of that frigging event. I'd stop trotting out the likes of Banks and Hurst and whoever does the dinner circuits around tournament time. Because I believe it heaps pressure on the players coming in, and scares them to the extent that they seldom produce club form in the white (or red) shirt.

I cannot think of any other country that would cling to a single victory over 40 years ago. Instead of maybe thinking "it's x years since we won the world cup, and that's unacceptable because WE ARE MIGHTY ENGLAND" We should do what United have done (and all successful teams do);

Celebrate the past, but don't allow yourselves to live in it at the expense of the present. France, Germany and Spain have all gone back to the drawing board and put long term (key words) plans into effect. They have all won the world cup in the last 20 years. The simple fact is that England is not a world football superpower as much as we like to claim. Yes the Premier League is arguably the best in the world - but that's not a coincidence that the rise has come with the addition of foreign players.

Remove the millstone of 1966, and all this "England expects" BS - and let the young lads play and develop for the love of the game - You can see the other nations' players love playing, and feel free to express themselves - new players are blooded in friendlies and allowed to try things at the risk of making mistakes.

You honestly cannot say that about England. A loss is met with a national enquiry, players are told to "keep it simple" to the point where they are petrified to try new things.

Was Cristiano Ronaldo slammed in Portugal for trying new things in friendlies? Or Lionel Messi in Argentina? No. Yet if God forbid an english player tried something tonight that went wrong - well you know tomorrow's papers.
 

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We have fundamentally inadequate coaching first and foremost (which is the main issue). Beyond that, we have a system that doesn't lend itself to English players or managers breaking through. Addressing the former would hopefully fix the latter.

Whether we will win another World Cup, that depends on how long football goes on for. It has only been around 150 years. It might become obsolete in another few hundred years when Quidditch is invented.
 

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The Great Dane
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6,422 Posts
Courtois​
Alderweireld Kompany Vertonghen Vermaelen​
Witsel​
Fellaini Dembele​
Mirallas Lukaku Hazard​

Definitely has potential that's for sure.

Indeed, but not for a World Cup in 2018 as I see it. A lot of the players in that team are at their peak now to be fair. I hope they'll qualify for Brazil, because it's a great team on paper. No doubt.
 
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