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the fixture congestion and player battling with fatigue in these competition is another issue....maybe the should have a winter break when there is an international tournament
 

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And England is not Greece. England is full of world class players who play for the best clubs in the world. So they have the same chance to make it as any other "big" national team in the world. Be that reaching the final in 2016 as my bet is or winning it as well.
England isn't Greece, individually they are better but as a team they have not reached the standards that Greece did consistantly over that tournament. Ok, Greece had a slice of luck to win that tournament and they were able to go into every game as underdogs, I guess thats an advantage that we do not have to the same extent. However even countries like Denmark and Greece have a style of play that is more conducive to success at international level. They know how to play a patient possession game unlike England. They do not hit aimless, hollywood passes when defending a one goal lead. They don't lose their heads in the second half, where all a team needs to do is press and all ability to pass to a man goes out of the window. English players do not have composure and that is further illustrated by their hopeless record in penalty shootouts.
 

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Maybe the examples I used were simply too dramatic and aggressive ,I wasn't implying that you are being xenophobic or anything along those lines . I was saying that having quotas now will create a huge vacuum in terms of talent available to the teams whilst the immediate beneficiaries aren't good enough to plug the gap . Changes in coaching methods ,person specifications for the said coaches (uefa class a) and the general thrust of youth development will achieve far greater results than quotas . Take Germany for example ,it's only a few years ago that a humiliating defeat at the hands of England galvanized them into action but by the 2006 results were starting to emerge and now they have caught up with Spain ,overtaken Brazil ,Holland and France as a producer of top class talent . In a nutshell resources must be availed to youth programmes ,more coaches trained and the focus directed to technique not size . Things will then take care of themselves .
i did not think this mate nor did i mean to come across moody in the last post...
its funny how you mentioned Germany before when i was reading an article about it before found here http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent
the difference in the amount of coaches england and Germany have is shockingly bad.
 

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This thread has so much to comment on. First, personally I think it's risky to say that England will never win the World Cup or the European Cup again; mainly because you don't have to be the team that plays the best football, or the most consistent team to win it. It's just about being a group, being a solid team; the perfect example is Greece, they didn't have really much fantasy on their game, nor nothing special that other teams didn't, but they were great together, they played as a team; and that's as useful as any other thing in a World Cup or International competition, mainly because it's hard to build a team and a hard group in not many games. I think England wasn't lucky last summer losing in penalties vs Italy; but if they had gone through that round, who knows what would have happened in the match vs Germany? That's unpredictable, anything can happen in a match, and if you win that match, you play the final. It's not only about being the best team, it's also about being lucky with the draws, playing good games when its really important, and specially being hard to beat. Look at Portugal, they were not better than Italy, Germany, England, Netherlands... but they were hard to beat, they were competitive, and look, they lost in penalties vs Spain, but they were able to decide the pass to the final in penalties vs a supposedly much better team. From that point of view, I wouldn't say that England will never win a cup again.

Footballistically speaking, I think that England has to figure out what system they want to play, what more-or-less formation they are planning to use, and what players are going to be the base to the team; Not only in the first team, but also in the under-21, under-19 categories; I think it's important that all of them coaches and teams work alike and together, so that players get that continuity that's always so important. Skill wise, I think that England has some of the best players in the world for every position on the pitch, the main problem is that coaches can't find the way to build a team and make them play together, getting the best out of each one; and making them sacrifice for the team.

I think Germany is a great role model in that working with younger squads, trying to make every player fit in all the national teams they play; you can see Gundogan debut with the national team, he doesn't need time at all to get used to the formation, system, or what he is asked to do, because he has been playing that same position in a exactly same system since he was around the national under-17 teams. But don't get me wrong, I don't want to say that players need to only learn how to play a certain system or formation, that's totally wrong from my point of view, I'm just saying that it's a good way to start getting together all the pieces England has in the younger squads.

About 2014 World Cup, I think England are still way more trustful contenders than the likes of Belgium, Mexico, Portugal, and many other teams that are going to take part. If Roy is able to do a good job and make a real group out of that squad, England will for sure be one of the toughest opponents to beat for anyone. Maybe not the one that plays the best football, but really hard to beat and the one no-one wants to face. I still think that football wise, Spain is ahead every other country that's taking part, even Germany, I think Spain's slightly ahead. Then in my second group, I would place Brazil, England, Italy, Argentina and Netherlands. I personally like the programme Netherlands has for all the National Teams and how they bring players every single year.
 

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First thing first, England would have won World Cup in 1958 if Munich hadn't happened.
1966, was mostly down to Charlton, Nobby Stiles and some help from West Ham players.
in the 90's England didn't won because Scholes was seriously mis cast and Giggs wasn't English.
Today, its hard to support team that includes John Terry and Steven Gerrard.
 
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England isn't Greece, individually they are better but as a team they have not reached the standards that Greece did consistantly over that tournament. Ok, Greece had a slice of luck to win that tournament and they were able to go into every game as underdogs, I guess thats an advantage that we do not have to the same extent. However even countries like Denmark and Greece have a style of play that is more conducive to success at international level. They know how to play a patient possession game unlike England. They do not hit aimless, hollywood passes when defending a one goal lead. They don't lose their heads in the second half, where all a team needs to do is press and all ability to pass to a man goes out of the window. English players do not have composure and that is further illustrated by their hopeless record in penalty shootouts.

Well all those qualities that you described can be achieved by a new manager or even by Hodgson. Rehhagel who was the main ingredient behind the success of the Greek national team, was appointed as a manager in 2001. Three years later he made a really mediocre team win the Euro.

It will just take a good manager with good tactics to turn a good team with world class players into a team that is capable of winning things. Is Hodgson the man? I don't know. But there is a really good crop of English players coming through and in three years they could be serious contenders for winning the Euro.
 

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England should have won at least one more World Cup since 66. You have had the players to win you just lacked management nous and organisation. Had Clough een put in charge in the 70s I am convinced England would have lifted the big one again.Probably In 74, definetly in Italia 90.
 

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England should have won at least one more World Cup since 66. You have had the players to win you just lacked management nous and organisation. Had Clough een put in charge in the 70s I am convinced England would have lifted the big one again.Probably In 74, definetly in Italia 90.

Italia 90 was the one for me. Sir Bobby's team had everything - except a bit of luck. The 90 final between Argentina and Germany was abysmal.
 

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Ofcourse england won't win the world cup any time soon. They keep focusing way to much attention on talentelss clowns like jonjo shelvy and jordan henderson while real talents like morrison, barkley and hughes aren focused upon. It simply doesn't make sense. Those players aren't good enough to shinne at U21 level ho are they supposed to become world dominating superstars. There is talent in england but it sadly isn't being developed correctly. Josh mceachran still can't get a game at chelsea, barkley isn't starting for everton, morrison isn't playing at west ham FFS.
 

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Rustling & Hustling
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Ofcourse england won't win the world cup any time soon. They keep focusing way to much attention on talentelss clowns like jonjo shelvy and jordan henderson while real talents like morrison, barkley and hughes aren focused upon. It simply doesn't make sense. Those players aren't good enough to shinne at U21 level ho are they supposed to become world dominating superstars. There is talent in england but it sadly isn't being developed correctly. Josh mceachran still can't get a game at chelsea, barkley isn't starting for everton, morrison isn't playing at west ham FFS.
Morrison was with Birmingham on loan for the whole of this season, but I know where you're coming from. He was on loan with Birmingham for a reason..couldn't get games with WHU.
 

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Big Daddy
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Morrison was with Birmingham on loan for the whole of this season, but I know where you're coming from. He was on loan with Birmingham for a reason..couldn't get games with WHU.

Let's be honest, if he had the right attitude - he'd still be here.
 

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Let's be honest, if he had the right attitude - he'd still be here.
I'm not sure really, I regularly talk to a lad who supports Birmingham and he said he was one of their better players this season but reckons (when he was linked with City) that he'd never be good enough to get into a top Premier League side. I guess time will tell and he's still only 20.

No doubt if his attitude was right, he'd have been given a fairer chance here to play first team football and develop as a footballer and to get a fair estimate on how good he could become like Gibson.
 

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I'm not sure really, I regularly talk to a lad who supports Birmingham and he said he was one of their better players this season but reckons (when he was linked with City) that he'd never be good enough to get into a top Premier League side. I guess time will tell and he's still only 20.

No doubt if his attitude was right, he'd have been given a fairer chance here to play first team football and develop as a footballer and to get a fair estimate on how good he could become like Gibson.

True, but he was widely regarded as the future of our midfield in tandem with Pogba. Never got a chance to show it, but unlike Paul, Ravel can really only blame himself.
 

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True, but he was widely regarded as the future of our midfield in tandem with Pogba. Never got a chance to show it, but unlike Paul, Ravel can really only blame himself.
I think if Paul signed the contract, he would have got first team football so he can only blame himself too.
 

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Big Daddy
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I think if Paul signed the contract, he would have got first team football so he can only blame himself too.

Fergie's last mistake. And one of his biggest. He should have played Paul a lot more, Juventus put him almost straight in - and their midfield is vastly better than ours.
 
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