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Discussion Starter #1
The exit of Gerard Pique heralds the departure yet another young centre back at Manchester United.

Four questions then:

1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?

2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?

3. Should he go out on loan for another season, as he probably won't get the games he will need to improve as a player.

4. If he does go out on loan, which team should he be loaned out to?


From the reports that I have read, it seems that the moment Pique indicated that he was willing to leave for Barcelona, Fergie gave him the cold shoulder. Some reports even state that he might have been "sold on the cheap".

This would indicate to me that Sir Alex wrote Pique off the moment the youngster didn't emphatically state that he wanted to stay and stake his claim at the current Kings of England and Europe.

Right or wrong, both protagonists have their point of view and I personally wish Gerard Pique all the best in his career - except when he plays against Man Utd. :)

The lack of cover at CB cost us dearly last season against Milan and we could now find ourselves in a similar predicament.

Wes Brown has had a good season, but he's actually better at RB than at CB, even though he's actually supposed to be a centre back. One of the reasons for this is his sense of positioning. On several occasions this season, Rio or Nemanja have had to scramble back to help him when he's played at CB and so I'm not sure he is ideal cover.

That leaves us with John O'Shea, who would best be described as decent - and that is being kind.

To me, this is a brilliant opportunity for Johnny Evans to step up and be part of a team that has the potential to enjoy a prolonged reign of success.

He certainly has the attributes of a good central defender and Roy Keane can't stop waxing lyrical about the lad.

Maybe cjl safc fan can chime in here to give us some feedback on his performances for the black cats.

Time will tell, but I suspect that Ryan Shawcross would have had a better chance than Pique to succeed at United. His physicality and temperament certainly looked more suited.

Should Evans stay, surely Fergie must give the lad acouple of games.

After his mistake at Bolton, which allowed Anelka to score, Pique was frozen out of the first team and I reckon that was a bitter pill to swallow and maybe not the right treatment to give a young player trying to break into the squad. Then again, it might be Fergie's way. Make the youngsters WANT it badly enough.

I have to say though that this is one of Fergie's double standards. Darren Fletcher played poorly in a lot of games when he was trying to break into the squad and yet Fergie never made a meal out of it and kept giving him chances.

Carlos Quieroz did say in an interview that Pique did not make the best of the chances given to him, but I find that a bit harsh. Young players will make mistakes. They are young after all.

I want Evans to stay and try to break into the squad, but only if Fergie gives him the chances to do so, otherwise it will be a waste of time. Young players need games to improve, but management is not giving them those games and still expects them to improve and attain Premier League standards.

This is a vicious cycle that needs to be broken and I hope Fergie will give Evans the chances to do so and that Evans will them as well as he can.
 

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1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?

Well a lot would depend on whether people like Silvestre stick around.
We will also being buying a defender who might be able to play centrally as well.
If Neville makes it back to the player he was then we have Wes who can
cover Rio and Vida as well. O'Shea is in there and for the time being Silvestre
as well.

Barring injury Rio/Vidic will play the majority of the games, certainly
the important ones, so having Brown, O'Shea, Silvestre, Evans even Cathcart
as well as a potential signing we should be fine for cover.
If Fergie bought Richards for instance then he could cover absolutely anywhere.

Pique and Shawcross are very good players, but they needed to be world class
to have even stood a chance of breaking up the Vida/Rio duo.
Truth is that they probably wont even be missed......

So in answer to your question-Yes we have enough quality cover at present.



2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?

Well yes, I guess he will. With Pique out of the picture his chances of playing
have risen dramatically. He has had the experience with Sunderland so we know
he can do it. If he comes back and gives it a real go, he could be one of the 2 main
covers for Rio/Vida.

Unless of course he loves working with Keano and at Sunderland..... he may want
to be guaranteed his place there. Fergie will no doubt help decide what happens
to him. Evans is a class act but we need to see if he will leave like the others
or make a fight of things.

Also he is a good 7-8 years younger than Rio and Vidic so if he stuck around
he could be the future of Man United. Thats a chance in a lifetime and hopefully
too good for him to ignore.
 

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Pique woulda got around 25-30 games next season. Maybe that'll be the case now for Evans. He is lucky in that we loaned him out to a team that was playing in the PL, so he has a decent amount of experience at this level. I'm sure he'll stick around and fight for a place.

I'm really sad to see Pique leave. Before last season, i couldn't wait to see him in action, and now he has gone :(
 

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Honestly from my point of view, this lad has no intentions to stay at all, so what's the poing of having him in the squad... Cashing in on him would be a better choice.

1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?
We have the quality in that position but who can assure that no injuries will hit either Rio or Vida??? So in this case, I have to say no... We not not have enough quallity to cover the central defensive positions. Wes Brown looks only ok for the task but I have faith in him... I hope that he will prove us wrong next season... At the moment Gary and Hargreaves can play as right back so to me Brown is my best choice to cover CD, but remember that I mentioned OK only... Certain games I few that Brown is up to the task, BIG GAMES??? Beware... O'shea is shaky... No faith in him. (FULLSTOP)

2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?
Is his chance to prove... I mean provided that he chooses to stay with Manchester United, at the moment it sure doesn't look that way. But for sure I know that potential is not a definate proven success. So Evans will have to work his way up the ranks and seize all opportunities given. But in any case, if Rio and Vida stay injuries free, no chance will be given to him... Final decision depends on him if he's willing to learn all not, bearing in mind that in Sunderland is not a place to learn. He will only be frustrated with the number of attacks that he would have to handle with...

No offence... cjl safc fan
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Jazz 16 said:
1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?

Well a lot would depend on whether people like Silvestre stick around.
We will also being buying a defender who might be able to play centrally as well.
If Neville makes it back to the player he was then we have Wes who can
cover Rio and Vida as well. O'Shea is in there and for the time being Silvestre
as well.

Barring injury Rio/Vidic will play the majority of the games, certainly
the important ones, so having Brown, O'Shea, Silvestre, Evans even Cathcart
as well as a potential signing we should be fine for cover.
If Fergie bought Richards for instance then he could cover absolutely anywhere.

Pique and Shawcross are very good players, but they needed to be world class
to have even stood a chance of breaking up the Vida/Rio duo.
Truth is that they probably wont even be missed......

So in answer to your question-Yes we have enough quality cover at present.

- I wonder if we should be looking for a left back, who can play in the centre instead of a right back. If Silvestre leaves and Evra get injured will be short in that department. I wonder if Danny Simpson can learn to play on the left.

2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?

Well yes, I guess he will. .........

Also he is a good 7-8 years younger than Rio and Vidic so if he stuck around
he could be the future of Man United. Thats a chance in a lifetime and hopefully
too good for him to ignore
.
- Exactly! If he sticks around and developes the way the coaches thinks he can, he might be in a good position to take over in 3-4 years time, so I hope he stays.

I wonder if he'll get games though. I mean, if we do buy another defender, how many games with Evans get? Will he get enough games to improve as a player? Maybe next season would be better spent on loan, but would he be willing to do that?


dckyfoxes said:
Honestly from my point of view, this lad has no intentions to stay at all, so what's the poing of having him in the squad... Cashing in on him would be a better choice.

1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?
We have the quality in that position but who can assure that no injuries will hit either Rio or Vida??? So in this case, I have to say no... We not not have enough quallity to cover the central defensive positions. Wes Brown looks only ok for the task but I have faith in him... I hope that he will prove us wrong next season... At the moment Gary and Hargreaves can play as right back so to me Brown is my best choice to cover CD, but remember that I mentioned OK only... Certain games I few that Brown is up to the task, BIG GAMES??? Beware... O'shea is shaky... No faith in him. (FULLSTOP)

- I wouldn;t let O'Shea play at CB either.

The more I think about it, the more I feel the Evans should go out on another season-long loan to gain more experience.

I felt Pique did OK for a young player, but he didn't want to stay and fight for his place and to be fair to him he needs more games right now.

I think we need a left-back who can lay in the centre and let Evans go out on loan.


2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?
Is his chance to prove... I mean provided that he chooses to stay with Manchester United, at the moment it sure doesn't look that way. But for sure I know that potential is not a definate proven success. So Evans will have to work his way up the ranks and seize all opportunities given. But in any case, if Rio and Vida stay injuries free, no chance will be given to him... Final decision depends on him if he's willing to learn all not, bearing in mind that in Sunderland is not a place to learn. He will only be frustrated with the number of attacks that he would have to handle with...
- hmm....interesting remark. I understand where you;re coming from, but playing at Premier League level against Premier league strikers is a pretty good level to be playing against, no?

Where do you think a good alternative would be? Still in the premier league with another clb or maybe a different league altogether? Maybe a foreign league?
 

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1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?

Simple answer - no. Pique has gone, O'Shea (I agree ^^^) shouldn't play in CB. Which means realistically theres only Silvestre and Wes Brown but he has to play RB. We could do with another CB tbh.

2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?

Nope and Nope sorry, he should jump at the chance of going to Sunderland he could really make something of himself :)

3. Should he go out on loan for another season, as he probably won't get the games he will need to improve as a player.

Nah i think he should take the chance he's not that young is he ?

4. If he does go out on loan, which team should he be loaned out to?

If he were to stick around i would be quite happy as i love seeing the younger players progress but he should go back on loan to S'Land Keano must be great to work with!
 

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1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?

Yes, but I think we need 1 more CB, the solution MICAH RICHARDS! I think SAF sold Pique as he has intentions to buy Micah.
We do have Brown, who has just finished a great season, O'Shea is a decent player and if Silvestre sticks around we have hime too.

2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?

I think one more season on loan.

3. Should he go out on loan for another season, as he probably won't get the games he will need to improve as a player.

Yes.

4. If he does go out on loan, which team should he be loaned out to?

Sunderland!
 

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dckyfoxes said:
Honestly from my point of view, this lad has no intentions to stay at all, so what's the poing of having him in the squad... Cashing in on him would be a better choice.

1. Do we have enough QUALITY cover in the central defensive positions?
We have the quality in that position but who can assure that no injuries will hit either Rio or Vida??? So in this case, I have to say no... We not not have enough quallity to cover the central defensive positions. Wes Brown looks only ok for the task but I have faith in him... I hope that he will prove us wrong next season... At the moment Gary and Hargreaves can play as right back so to me Brown is my best choice to cover CD, but remember that I mentioned OK only... Certain games I few that Brown is up to the task, BIG GAMES??? Beware... O'shea is shaky... No faith in him. (FULLSTOP)

2. Will young Johnny Evans bother to stick around and should he?
Is his chance to prove... I mean provided that he chooses to stay with Manchester United, at the moment it sure doesn't look that way. But for sure I know that potential is not a definate proven success. So Evans will have to work his way up the ranks and seize all opportunities given. But in any case, if Rio and Vida stay injuries free, no chance will be given to him... Final decision depends on him if he's willing to learn all not, bearing in mind that in Sunderland is not a place to learn. He will only be frustrated with the number of attacks that he would have to handle with...

No offence... cjl safc fan
You say O'Shea is shaky, yet he will be cementing down a place a centre back
for Ireland in the coming years. He is shaky compared to Vida and Rio
but who isn't? O'Shea has shown time and time again that he can be relied upon.
He is a great servant and pro and ffs he scored an injury time winner in front
of the Kop :D
It's players like him we need as cover. He knows he won't get in the first 11
and as far as we know, he is fine with that.

As for your last line, that did confuse me a lot. Surely he will learn more and
gain valuable experience from being over worled in a Sunderland team.
He will be dealing with great forwards EVERY week, so Sunderland is the
perfect place for him to hone his skills and master his trade :)
 

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fergies handling of pique was dissapointing to say the least. Yes he made a mistake against bolton but young kids needs encouragement, not the cold shoulder for each mistake they make.

In my opinion, rossi and pique are the most gifted young players we have had in a while. I can understand why we sold rossi, because simply put, the lad wouldnt have got games in the first team. Also i think pique was more 'united' material in terms of his natural ability and how good he was on the ball for a centre back. But he never played enough and fergie showed no faith in him. The game we drew against boro 2-2, pique should have started no doubt ib my mind but instead he started on the bench but when he came on, he looked good. Fergie did play him against arsenal or liverpool after that but i think the damage was done already. Pique is young but gifted and instead of united wanting to sell him, i can understand why he would choose to leave because if i was in his position i would have no confidence of getting any games either. 1 - because rio and vida are world class as a partnership and 2- and more importantly, fergie has no faith in him from what i gathered.

Anyway he seems like a good lad, so i wish him all the best. I just wonder whether a move back to barca is the right move at this stage in his career. He is still young and inexperienced and moving to a club with the stature of barcelona may not always be a positive thing. But who knows, maybe he'll get a good amount of games there and come along as a player.

Good luck in the future.

pz
 

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I would like Danny Simpson, Craig Cathcart and Evans to stay and fight for a place in the first team, because come a couple fo years, we'll need english players on the field due to the new uefa 4 english man on a field law.
 

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We do have some cover but it takes one injury and will be back to what we were like a few seasons back. Im really sad to see Pique go because he had so much potential and ability, plus hes my favourite player. Im sure fergie will be fuming by xmas seeing he let a world class defender slip through his fingers. because Pique will excel at playing week-in-week-out, he should of been given a chance here.

Jonny Evans has ability but I dont think he is good enough for United, perhaps ok for back up. I think we definatly need another defender now Pique has gone and silvestre may be on his way as well. I would like to see Danny Simpson given more chances next season and perhaps with the new 7 sub rule we will see more of the youngsters on the bench and they will get more obertunities.

Good Luck Pique and I will be watching La Liga next season.
 
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