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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
the best teams have always and will always be a combination of players who aren't big name stars doing a lot of unsung work while the stars are then allowed to go on and do their thing.
look at my pic...the one to the left.....over there muppet lol of falcao......... the greatest team i ever saw- brasil 82 my heroes besides the reds, but they didnt have a proper worker in that team- they were ALL STYLE AND NO SUBSTANCE!!!. fantastic to watch , but lacked a certain type of player in their team who would sacrifice himself and do the dirty work.

anyone who disagrees is a total muff
I don't actually disagree with you there Scott. And I'm not saying we don't need players like Park for certain games, all I'm saying is that workrate is an over rated quality and I'd much prefer players with actual talent. The grafters should be in the centre of the pitch though, not the wings. We had no problems when we had Kanchelskis and Giggs operating the wings for us and they weren't exactly known for tracking back.
 

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I don't actually disagree with you there Scott. And I'm not saying we don't need players like Park for certain games, all I'm saying is that workrate is an over rated quality and I'd much prefer players with actual talent. The grafters should be in the centre of the pitch though, not the wings. We had no problems when we had Kanchelskis and Giggs operating the wings for us and they weren't exactly known for tracking back.
no its all swings and roundabouts.......depends on the team , whos in it and the set up really. actually think the best ever set with natural balance we had was becks, scholes and keano and giggsy and while keano could be termed the grafter and midfield general he wasnt exactly a worker with no talent. just think with our present team and the way we set up an grafter on the pitch is 100% nescessary. i'd much prefer it if we instead of just having a workhorse had a midfield general again with a match winning ball player next to him. the obvious choice there is one thats been done to death here- hargreaves and carrick.
at present i dont think the players we have on the pitch are set up how we'd like them and in this case we need a good worker.
my mine problem which we probably agree on is when we have park, fletcher and either rooney or tevez on the pitch and we end up with lots of players doing lots of work- sometimes with no end product to show for it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
no its all swings and roundabouts.......depends on the team , whos in it and the set up really. actually think the best ever set with natural balance we had was becks, scholes and keano and giggsy and while keano could be termed the grafter and midfield general he wasnt exactly a worker with no talent. just think with our present team and the way we set up an grafter on the pitch is 100% nescessary. i'd much prefer it if we instead of just having a workhorse had a midfield general again with a match winning ball player next to him. the obvious choice there is one thats been done to death here- hargreaves and carrick.
at present i dont think the players we have on the pitch are set up how we'd like them and in this case we need a good worker.
my mine problem which we probably agree on is when we have park, fletcher and either rooney or tevez on the pitch and we end up with lots of players doing lots of work- sometimes with no end product to show for it.
Eggsackerly.
 

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I don't actually disagree with you there Scott. And I'm not saying we don't need players like Park for certain games, all I'm saying is that workrate is an over rated quality and I'd much prefer players with actual talent. The grafters should be in the centre of the pitch though, not the wings. We had no problems when we had Kanchelskis and Giggs operating the wings for us and they weren't exactly known for tracking back.
Thats exactly the point i made a few post back, wingers and strikers are not work horses.

I do love and rate Tevez, and think he is quality.

I also admire Parks work rate but its simply not enough from a winger, i love old school wingers like Giggs, Young, Lennon and the likes. I just think thats what a winger is meant to be, to hurt the other team and not stop other teams hurting us like Park does........ thats just my opinion.

But i love Tevez, i was only pointing out to Stress Head that Rooney is better.
 

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Thats exactly the point i made a few post back, wingers and strikers are not work horses.

I do love and rate Tevez, and think he is quality.

I also admire Parks work rate but its simply not enough from a winger, i love old school wingers like Giggs, Young, Lennon and the likes. I just think thats what a winger is meant to be, to hurt the other team and not stop other teams hurting us like Park does........ thats just my opinion.

But i love Tevez, i was only pointing out to Stress Head that Rooney is better.
Yeah no worries mate, only opinions in which everybody has different views.
 

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and is an ABSOLUTE rule in footbal that a winger cant be a worker ? if so...why fergie doesent sack park ?

we already have a winger that is responsable with creativity ( ronaldo...yea---he probably is able to creat danger for 2 wingers....meaning he probably does park's job also) and has 0 work-rate.
park must compensate that. and as long park has a great effort capability then he is the man for the job.

even so...park IS NOT useless in attack.
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
and is an ABSOLUTE rule in footbal that a winger cant be a worker ? if so...why fergie doesent sack park ?

we already have a winger that is responsable with creativity ( ronaldo...yea---he probably is able to creat danger for 2 wingers....) and has 0 work-rate.
park must compensate that. and as long park has a great effort capability then he is the man for the job.
It's not an absolute rule no, but you expect more creativity and an attacking threat from a winger, especially at a club like ours who have had so many great wingers down through the decades.

I disagree with your point that Ronaldo has no work rate. Watch him off the ball, when there's a move being started on the opposite side of the pitch you can guarantee that Ronaldo is sprinting up his wing trying his best to get into the box. He's one of the hardest workers we've got, he's just crap at defending so he isn't asked to do much of it.

And Park doesn't have to compensate anything, because they are on separate sides of the pitch. A winger can compensate for an attacking full back and vice versa, but wingers don't compensate for other wingers.
 

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i think ronaldo has a superb workrate actually for a so called superstar, my one critcism of park would be he actually workks too hard, i said that in a thread i did about him, if he just improved his skill level that lil bit more instead of constantly getting stuck in then he would be a better player. also for a winger when he's out there he doesnt hit the line enough and get good crosses in or roast defenders and get past them a la gigs and ronnie
 

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^^
ronaldo is a hard-worker ? he works , but only in the attack mostly
he barely wins a ball/ game

so what if they are on separate sides ? everybody can 'compensate'* everybody as long as they have big effort capability.

* dont get this word wrong. ronaldo is very good in creating danger, park is very good in defending.
that is what i meant primarly
he more compensates the dangerous players, danger threat / working players, defending skills ratio on the field.

i dont understand what you want....you say a center miedfielder has to work but not the wingers.
so we should buy a CM with great effort capability( and he must be skilled too....cuz people will complain about that too) and then a winger with skills to replace park ?

once again i say park is not useless in attack.

oh and btw, you say a winger can compensate with an attacking full back ( i agree with that of course...), so then is perfect for evra.
you are kinda contradicting yourself
 

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Tevez is a class player he is willing to do the mucking work also... so I wouldn't really put him in this category as we're talking about the Kuyt's of the world! and I would agree in the sense that just cos Kuyt is 'committed' and 'hard workin' etc. as all the f-ing scousers keep saying over and over on f365... he's still absolutely shy1te!
 

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Yip, thats the joys of football.

Good luck with your bathroom but asking for it to be done in a day is tough, unless you work all day andup untill 10 a night.
Thanks mate :thumbsup:vbut it's not tuff, it will be done all in a days work, does not take long to fit a new suite, only thing that can slow me down is if the wife mither's me to do other things besides
 

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I agree with the thread maker. While work rate welcome, it is no substitute for real quality, especially in a club like ours. Players with high work rate would suit smaller clubs better since they try to compensate their lack of skill and technique with work rate and determination. But for as club like ours, we need skill and quality to break down opposition defenses. Most teams while playing against us would put ten men behind the ball and would defend for their lives. Countering that with work horses isn't the way to go.


Although Nani can be very frustrating and inconsistent, he produces more goals/goal scoring opportunities when compared to Park. Sure, Park would be great player to have in away CL games especially with a full back like Evra. But imo Nani should get more starts than what he is getting now. The only way for him to get better is by playing more games.


Tevez finds it difficult to beat players and his finishing and goal returns have been far from encouraging. There's nothing in his play that suggests we should sign him up especially with the amount on money being touted by the media. Rooney himself is a hard worker but this season, with the arrival of Berbatov he's been playing in a more advanced position and is scoring goals. So I would prefer Rooney over Tevez.


The only position in the pitch where I feel work rate is vital is in the midfield area. It would be awesome to have a midfielder like Essien or Gattuso. Other than that, I feel our wingers and strikers should have skill and quality instead of being workhorses.

One more thing, Ronaldo has excellent workrate for a winger.
 

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Tevez is a class player he is willing to do the mucking work also... so I wouldn't really put him in this category as we're talking about the Kuyt's of the world! and I would agree in the sense that just cos Kuyt is 'committed' and 'hard workin' etc. as all the f-ing scousers keep saying over and over on f365... he's still absolutely shy1te!
i agree tevez oobviusly isnt just work. hes got loads of talent, just cos the commentators say he work loads doesent mean thats his only aspect. just because berbatov is lazy means hes extra talented? no
 

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i agree tevez oobviusly isnt just work. hes got loads of talent, just cos the commentators say he work loads doesent mean thats his only aspect. just because berbatov is lazy means hes extra talented? no
For the record, Berbatov isn't lazy. Its his languid style giving a false impression of laziness. If you look at the stats, you'll find that Berbatov puts more successful tackles than Tevez and wins the ball more often.
 

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im not going against berbatov :confused:

i think if we played tevez more often and give him right people around he would be on fire. scoring loads
Tevez has had enough opportunities to shine. Who do you mean by "right people"? He's playing for one of the best attacking sides in Europe with the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney and Berbatov supplying ammunition for him.
 
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