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Thank you Sir Alex
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dlan4327 said:
I'd agree that Tevez is debatable.
Evra maybe, he's arguably the best left back around at present so I'd say yes.

Finally as for Ronaldo, I honestly can't say.

Maybe my standards are too high but he still seems to disappear against tough

opposition. A world class player HAS to shine at the highest levels. I'll get back to

you all after EURO 2008. If Portugal win and Ronaldo scores a hat trick in the final

we'll call him world class, but maybe my standards are a little high. Just a little.:p
You said Evra is arguably the best left back and hence you call him world class. But you don't know Ronaldo is world class?:confused:

Tell me 3 right wingers who are better than him?

imo Ronaldo will get into any team in the world.

You say about his inability to shine in the big tournaments.

Who is the top scorer of the champions league?

Who was voted as the best young player in the last world cup?

Who is the top goal scorer for Portugal in the 2008 Euro qualifiers?
(Ronnie is actually the fourth top scorer in all of the 2008 Euro qualifiers)

There's only one answer and it's CRISTIANO RONALDO.;)
 

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red devil jeff said:
You said Evra is arguably the best left back and hence you call him world class. But you don't know Ronaldo is world class?

Tell me 3 right wingers who are better than him?

imo Ronaldo will get into any team in the world.

You say about his inability to shine in the big tournaments.

Who is the top scorer of the champions league?


Who was voted as the best young player in the last world cup?

Who is the top goal scorer for Portugal in the 2008 Euro qualifiers?
(Ronnie is actually the fourth top scorer in all of the 2008 Euro qualifiers)

There's only one answer and it's CRISTIANO RONALDO.
All your points are valid and I agree, but when I made my point about big games I

wasn't talking about say the Champions League as a whole. I know he's top

scorer but to be a world class midfielder I am holding him up to the likes of

Zidane, Kaka, Puskas, Keane & even, I dislike saying this, Viera.:( It doesn't

matter if he finishes up with 20 Champions League goals, world class means more

than raining in the goals. It means dictating play in a quarter final, in a semi final,

in a grand final itself.


When you look at the quarter finals Ronaldo scored twice against Roma, a very

respectable achievement but you would not say that he dominated. Aside from

the goals, tell me about Ronaldo's performance against Roma? Tell me about him

against Barca? On the 21st I hope that Ronaldo proves me wrong but I honestly

can't see him scoring from OPEN PLAY. A penalty maybe. If he does score from

open play I will offer a public to Red Devil Jeff and take back my harsh words. I

don't see it happening though.


Also I'm well aware of his EURO scoring record for the QUALIFIERS.

He disappeared for Portugal against Italy, though, it was Quaresma

who bagged their solitary goal. If he leads Portugal to victory, then we'll see.
 

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Thank you Sir Alex
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dlan4327 said:


All your points are valid and I agree, but when I made my point about big games I

wasn't talking about say the Champions League as a whole. I know he's top

scorer but to be a world class midfielder I am holding him up to the likes of

Zidane, Kaka, Puskas, Keane & even, I dislike saying this, Viera.:( It doesn't

matter if he finishes up with 20 Champions League goals, world class means more

than raining in the goals. It means dictating play in a quarter final, in a semi final,

in a grand final itself.


When you look at the quarter finals Ronaldo scored twice against Roma, a very

respectable achievement but you would not say that he dominated. Aside from

the goals, tell me about Ronaldo's performance against Roma? Tell me about him

against Barca? On the 21st I hope that Ronaldo proves me wrong but I honestly

can't see him scoring from OPEN PLAY. A penalty maybe. If he does score from

open play I will offer a public to Red Devil Jeff and take back my harsh words. I

don't see it happening though.


Also I'm well aware of his EURO scoring record for the QUALIFIERS.

He disappeared for Portugal against Italy, though, it was Quaresma

who bagged their solitary goal. If he leads Portugal to victory, then we'll see.

Lol take it easy m8!:D

Yes Ronaldo doesn't DICTATE play.

But in all honesty, thats not a winger's job.

An out an out striker doesn't dictatate play. Isn't RVN world class? But he doesn't dictate play.

Defenders don't dictate play. Isn't Rio Ferdinand world class? But he doesn't dictate play.

Goalkeepers don't dictate play. Isn't Petr Cech world class? But he doesn't dictate play.

My point is you don't have to dictate play to be world class.

Yes Zidane dictates play, Kaka dictates play, Paul Scholes dictates play even Roy Keane and Patrick Viera dictates play and they are all world class. But they are all midfielders, CENTRAL MIDFIELDERS, CREATIVE PLAYERS, PLAYMAKERS or PLAYBREAKERS.

Even Messi and Ronaldinho who play at the flanks dictate play because that is their game, their forte they are playmakers

Ronaldo is not a playmaker. He is an old fashioned winger. A winger tries tricks, uses his pace, beats his man, gets to the byline and pulls ball back. That, Ronaldo does wonderfully. He has more though.

Like Jazz said, everyone's perception of the word 'world class' differs. For me, a world class player needn't do everything, he doesn't always have to dictate play.

A world class player should carry out his role in the team wonderfully and he should be able to find a place in the CURRENT eleven. Which is why i believe Ronaldo is world class;)

Uh....... instead of the public, how about some vcash:D (naah, jus kiddin m8)
 

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hm...firstly ROnaldo...due to his extraordinary season....but we also have Rooney ..Tevez..Ferdinand....Van der Sar...but as well...Ryan Giggs..though he has been fading lately:)
 

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red devil jeff said:
You said Evra is arguably the best left back and hence you call him world class. But you don't know Ronaldo is world class?:confused:

Tell me 3 right wingers who are better than him?

imo Ronaldo will get into any team in the world.

You say about his inability to shine in the big tournaments.

Who is the top scorer of the champions league?

Who was voted as the best young player in the last world cup?

Who is the top goal scorer for Portugal in the 2008 Euro qualifiers?
(Ronnie is actually the fourth top scorer in all of the 2008 Euro qualifiers)

There's only one answer and it's CRISTIANO RONALDO.;)
wheres this evra is world class bit come from, he is good and getting better .
he is very wasteful when attacking and a bit head down .
i dare say in time he might get the "world class" status but not yet , he also gets caught out of position by attacking too much , but once again experience will tell him when to go and when to stay
 

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red devil jeff said:
Lol take it easy m8!:D

Yes Ronaldo doesn't DICTATE play.

But in all honesty, thats not a winger's job.

An out an out striker doesn't dictatate play. Isn't RVN world class? But he doesn't dictate play.

Defenders don't dictate play. Isn't Rio Ferdinand world class? But he doesn't dictate play.

Goalkeepers don't dictate play. Isn't Petr Cech world class? But he doesn't dictate play.

My point is you don't have to dictate play to be world class.

Yes Zidane dictates play, Kaka dictates play, Paul Scholes dictates play even Roy Keane and Patrick Viera dictates play and they are all world class. But they are all midfielders, CENTRAL MIDFIELDERS, CREATIVE PLAYERS, PLAYMAKERS or PLAYBREAKERS.

Even Messi and Ronaldinho who play at the flanks dictate play because that is their game, their forte they are playmakers


Ronaldo is not a playmaker. He is an old fashioned winger. A winger tries tricks, uses his pace, beats his man, gets to the byline and pulls ball back. That, Ronaldo does wonderfully. He has more though.

Like Jazz said, everyone's perception of the word 'world class' differs. For me, a world class player needn't do everything, he doesn't always have to dictate play.

A world class player should carry out his role in the team wonderfully and he should be able to find a place in the CURRENT eleven. Which is why i believe Ronaldo is world class;)

Uh....... instead of the public, how about some vcash:D (naah, jus kiddin m8)

I think one of the main reasons a thread like this generates such debate is people's varying definitions of World Class.

Taking the point from above, which is more or less spot on by the way, Messi does not necessarily dictate the play in the Barca side although he does influence it. Xavi and Iniesta are there for that. Yet when the ball gets to Messi, you can almost see the opposition flinching, checking themselves to see if they are ready and if they have got every angle covered.

Its the same with Ronaldo, its just that ability to tear you apart. Would he be worth 100m if he sat on the right wing calmly stroking it back to Scholes and carrick every time? Dont get me wrong, I have called him every name under the sun for some of his silly tricks over the past few years and that wont change, but for every few silly flicks and over-indulgent moves he pulls, there is a moment of genuine quality and penetration that leaves the opposition for dead.

Taking another example, look at Dirk Kuyt, sure he works harder, runs more, tracks back more quickly etc, but is he worth more to the team. Ronaldo is what he is and I think we can all agree that the more annoyin sides to his play are being gradually toned down, but 40 goals in approx as many games is proof for me. He is a danger from set pieces, open play, opposition set pieces even (Bolton last year!!) and any team in the world would kill to have him.

I dont have a definition of World Class for you guys but I can tell you Ronaldo would meet the criteria every time
 

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red devil jeff said:
Lol take it easy m8!:D
Hah!:D Sorry if I came across as a bit of a psycho. I just re read my post and I

realised it seemed pretty intense, considering my usual standards. As I was writing it I

was speaking matter of factly so don't take any offense. Consider this my humble

apology.:p


Oh yeah BTW I've revised my opinion, I was comparing Ronaldo to the wrong players. A play-maker he ain't. Still despite accepting your viewpoint I'm still clinging to my belief that he does need to shine more in big

games. Ronaldinho used to dictate play in big games and he's a winger of sorts. So once more I'm not usually agro, I swear it was the bold font! I'll never use bold again!:D
 

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I get your point dlan.

I think everyone who follows Spanish football remembers Messi's hat-trick against Real Madrid. On it's own not evidence of a World class player but combined with the skills we see from him throughout the season that was the confirmation, if any was needed.

The question is - to what level does Ronaldo have to perform against a World class side or in a big game?

Ronaldo used to get criticised for not scoring in big games but he's scored in an FA Cup Final, League Cup Final, Champions League quarter-final, against Liverpool and against Arsenal.

Now he gets criticised for his performances in big games - goals, apparently, are not enough. What will be enough to convince everyone that he is World class?
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Some great points by Dwarf, Dlan and Jeff on this page.
I doubt the Ronnie argument will ever go away until he scores in a major
final or performs some ridiculous heroics. Im a big critic of Ronaldo's and will be
quick to call out his flaws, but he HAS to be World Class no matter what anyone
says. Just the 40 goals should be enough reason in anyones book.

Yes he does go missing sometimes and he can infuriate the hell out of you,
but this guy keeps winning all the awards and getting into the top 3 in
Europe and World players of the year. He will surely be crowned World Player
next time round, so surely we can class him as a World beater.

Rio seems to be the ONLY player that everyone agrees on which is surprising.

Even the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Evra, Vidic, Tevez etc....have
not been given the 'world class' tag by some members, which is surprising
to me in some ways but not in others.

Everyone differs on their views of 'World class' which is fair enough.

It makes for a good discussion none the less ;-)
 

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at this moment i think only ronaldo, rooney, rio are world class .giggs ,scholes and v.d.s. used to be world class and 4/5 of the others are capeable of becoming world class but need to be consistently good to achieve it .
to be proper world class you must be winners and this takes a few seasons to build up the trophies.
 
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